Power conditioner for a Vale Amp

[rkumarblr]

Is it good idea to use a power conditioner for EMI and RFI filtration to the input power of a Valve amplifier ?
Most commercial power conditioners are not worth the money.
There is a simple circuit design which is a modification of Jon Risch original design referred to as Silk 230 V AC filter.

The power lines in Indian homes is known to be noisy even if its a dedicated power socket and line.
So is it OK to use a power filter for input power into a class A integrate valve amp all other components like streamer, DAC etc having internal filters and linear power supplies.

Thanks

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Is it good idea to use a power conditioner for EMI and RFI filtration to the input power of a Valve amplifier ?
Most commercial power conditioners are not worth the money.
There is a simple circuit design which is a modification of Jon Risch original design referred to as Silk 230 V AC filter.

The power lines in Indian homes is known to be noisy even if its a dedicated power socket and line.
So is it OK to use a power filter for input power into a class A integrate valve amp all other components like streamer, DAC etc having internal filters and linear power supplies.

Thanks

A lot of folks including me, do the exact opposite. Sources to conditioners and amplifiers direct to wall. Though a few friends are using Puritan PSM156's with their SS amplifiers, and are very happy with the results.

 

[mbhangui]

Is it good idea to use a power conditioner for EMI and RFI filtration to the input power of a Valve amplifier ?
Most commercial power conditioners are not worth the money.
There is a simple circuit design which is a modification of Jon Risch original design referred to as Silk 230 V AC filter.

The power lines in Indian homes is known to be noisy even if its a dedicated power socket and line.
So is it OK to use a power filter for input power into a class A integrate valve amp all other components like streamer, DAC etc having internal filters and linear power supplies.

Thanks

Mainline noise now days is because of widespread use of SMPS. Cell phone chargers, laptop chargers, etc. They all produce noise little above 20 kHz, but it affects the quality of power available

The term 'power conditioner' is not well defined or regulated by any norms or legislations. Almost all power conditioners for audio use are snake oil and glorified LC circuits with fancy display to display you the voltage, etc. The only real good power conditioner would be either your own generator or something that generates 230 v AC from lead acid battery. One could also convert AC to DC and convert that back to AC using a good amplifier.

The best approach would be to get an isolation transformer. Isolation transformers help to improve power quality by decreasing the amount of electrical noise and providing a more consistent voltage output. This helps ensure that any device connected to the transformer receives clean, consistent power without any interference or fluctuation in voltage. I think @ishmeet73 uses an isolation transformer. He could provide more information on this.

 

[rkumarblr]

A lot of folks including me, do the exact opposite. Sources to conditioners and amplifiers direct to wall. Though a few friends are using Puritan PSM156's with their SS amplifiers, and are very happy with the results.

Thanks

 

[rkumarblr]

Mainline noise now days is because of widespread use of SMPS. Cell phone chargers, laptop chargers, etc. They all produce noise little above 20 kHz, but it affects the quality of power available

The term 'power conditioner' is not well defined or regulated by any norms or legislations. Almost all power conditioners for audio use are snake oil and glorified LC circuits with fancy display to display you the voltage, etc. The only real good power conditioner would be either your own generator or something that generates 230 v AC from lead acid battery. One could also convert AC to DC and convert that back to AC using a good amplifier.

The best approach would be to get an isolation transformer. Isolation transformers help to improve power quality by decreasing the amount of electrical noise and providing a more consistent voltage output. This helps ensure that any device connected to the transformer receives clean, consistent power without any interference or fluctuation in voltage.

Interesting will read up on this. If you are aware of any brand or product please suggest for use in 230 VA 50 Hz AC supply

 

[greenhorn]

I see power conditioners are a staple feature of pro stacks. Pro users generally buy stuff based on commercial consideration right, why do they buy them then

 

[mbhangui]

Interesting will read up on this. If you are aware of any brand or product please suggest for use in 230 VA 50 Hz AC supply

I know of two implementions. @Yelamanchili manohar has a power conditioner from PS audio that converts AC to DC and back to AC. Theoretically this will be better than the LC circuits. @ishmeet73 uses isolation transformer. Isolation transformer cannot reduce the noise to zero, but can significantly reduce the noise. Avoid the LC based conditioners. They can generate high voltage transients and can ruin your precious equpment.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I know of two implementions. @Yelamanchili manohar has a power conditioner from PS audio that converts AC to DC and back to AC. Theoretically this will be better than the LC circuits. @ishmeet73 uses isolation transformer. Isolation transformer cannot reduce the noise to zero, but can significantly reduce the noise. Avoid the LC based conditioners. They can generate high voltage transients and can ruin your precious equpment.

Unfortunately the PSaudio power plant is dead sir . Iam using an audioquest niagra 1200 for the source components for now. But Puritan is better than audioquest.

 

[saur1985]

Is it good idea to use a power conditioner for EMI and RFI filtration to the input power of a Valve amplifier ?
Most commercial power conditioners are not worth the money.
There is a simple circuit design which is a modification of Jon Risch original design referred to as Silk 230 V AC filter.

The power lines in Indian homes is known to be noisy even if its a dedicated power socket and line.
So is it OK to use a power filter for input power into a class A integrate valve amp all other components like streamer, DAC etc having internal filters and linear power supplies.

Thanks

Before you decide to pull trigger on any power conditioner, have a go through this entire thread here, you will thank me later.

S

Thread 'A Sanely Priced Power Conditioner That Actually Works Objectively and Subjectively - OnFilter Powe Distribution Unit'

Jul 7, 2024

Hello all,

As the title may suggests this is my review of OnFilter’s PDU (Power Distribution Unit) which is power conditioner (EMI + RFI Filtering) plus power strip. I very well know this might be a controversial topic, but I will still go ahead. As a disclaimer, I am not affiliated with OnFilter nor have I received discount on my PDU (yes, I have paid the full price) or I haven’t received any review unit. As the brand is not known in the Audiophile world, I am going to deviate from my usual style of writing the review.

So, I will begin with little about company & the brain behind the...

• saur1985
• Replies: 10
• Forum: Reviews

• 
• 

Regards,
Saurabh

 

[Hari Iyer]

I see lot of FM explaining noise in power supply. Can someone explain me this "noise" as to how it sounds? Is it a hum, hiss, crackle, EMI type, etc etc that you are trying to filter. I am asking because, I am unaware or haven't heard any noise from power supply issues TBH.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I see lot of FM explaining noise in power supply. Can someone explain me this "noise" as to how it sounds? Is it a hum, hiss, crackle, EMI type, etc etc that you are trying to filter. I am asking because, I am unaware or haven't heard any noise from power supply issues TBH.

Every system has two noise floors. One is the ambient noise floor in the room, and second is the electrical noise floor of the system. Whenever any of these noise floors are reduced, the musical notes stand out more clearly, better defined. Once I reduced the ambient noise floor of my room, then I added the audioquest Niagara for the source components. This lowered the electrical noise floor very noticably. Subsequently, when I introduced a network switch, this reduced the noise on the Lan from coming through the speakers. None of these changes are night and day, but they are more than subtle. But to hear the differences, the ambient noise floor of the room has to be first brought down, otherwise the improvements brought by power and Lan filtering will be drowned below the ambient noise floor of the room and will not be audible.

The same components after power and Lan filtering sound richer with notes and voices sounding more real and natural. More like we removed something adding extra odd order harmonics and contaminating the tone and timbre of the notes. I would define the power line noise as a constant hiss, that our ears get accustomed to, just like the ambient noise in one's room. And we only realize it, once its gone

Edit : I must quickly add that the efficacy of these power filters, will also depend on the quality of the power coming into the room. The more noisy the power, the more noticable the benefits with the filtering. But I think in any normal modern house hold, the improvements will be readily apparent.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Every system has two noise floors. One is the ambient noise floor in the room, and second is the electrical noise floor of the system. Whenever any of these noise floors are reduced, the musical notes stand out more clearly, better defined. Once I reduced the ambient noise floor of my room, then I added the audioquest Niagara for the source components. This lowered the electrical noise floor very noticably. Subsequently, when I introduced a network switch, this reduced the noise on the Lan from coming through the speakers. None of these changes are night and day, but they are more than subtle. But to hear the differences, the ambient noise floor of the room has to be first brought down, otherwise the improvements brought by power and Lan filtering will be drowned below the ambient noise floor of the room and will not be audible.

The same components after power and Lan filtering sound richer with notes and voices sounding more real and natural. More like we removed something adding extra odd order harmonics and contaminating the tone and timbre of the notes. I would define the power line noise as a constant hiss, that our ears get accustomed to, just like the ambient noise in one's room. And we only realize it, once its gone

Edit : I must quickly add that the efficacy of these power filters, will also depend on the quality of the power coming into the room. The more noisy the power, the more noticable the benefits with the filtering. But I think in any normal modern house hold, the improvements will be readily apparent.

Ok, my room ambient noise is around 65dB - measured as my listening room face a very heavy traffic road. Nothing much can be done about it than shut my window which reduces them to 55dB which is decent. But I still can't hear any hiss from my speakers even at 2am at night which is dead quite.

My amplifier uses an L-C-L-C filter with multiple bypass and a snubber capacitor which is rated at 1200 amps. My designer has told me not to use any EMI/RF filter on this amplifier as it will rob the music of the transients.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Ok, my room ambient noise is around 65dB - measured as my listening room face a very heavy traffic road. Nothing much can be done about it than shut my window which reduces them to 55dB which is decent. But I still can't hear any hiss from my speakers even at 2am at night which is dead quite.

My amplifier uses an L-C-L-C filter with multiple bypass and a snubber capacitor which is rated at 1200 amps. My designer has told me not to use any EMI/RF filter on this amplifier as it will rob the music of the transients.

The only way to find out is try one out in your room sir

It would have been impossible for me to believe that there was electrical noise in my room if anyone told me so. But after having tried a few different types, Iam convinced that I need one.

My ambient noise level is below 40 db during day time. There is no diference in day and night in my room, except in the evenings when the kids start screaming in the adjoining childrens park overlooking my window. The room is uncannily quiet, almost to the point of feeling uncomfortable to new visitors unaccustomed to such a low noise floor. Besides, the decay times are all below 250 ms, except 400 ms in the bass below 200 hz. So this room is very very resolving, and every minute thing can be heard. I attribute that to the room, more than the quality of the playback chain. One reason why I keep screaming from the roof tops that the room is 60% of the sound

 

[Hari Iyer]

The only way to find out is try one out in your room sir

It would have been impossible for me to believe that there was electrical noise in my room if anyone told me so. But after having tried a few different types, Iam convinced that I need one.

My ambient noise level is below 40 db during day time. There is no diference in day and night in my room, except in the evenings when the kids start screaming in the adjoining childrens park overlooking my window. The room is uncannily quiet, almost to the point of feeling uncomfortable to new visitors unaccustomed to such a low noise floor. Besides, the decay times are all below 250 ms, except 400 ms in the bass below 200 hz. So this room is very very resolving, and every minute thing can be heard. I attribute that to the room, more than the quality of the playback chain. One reason why I keep screaming from the roof tops that the room is 60% of the sound

Even if my budget allows me to buy one, I will consider only if one gives me to try for a month - else not. Reason - I fully doubt if it will matter to my setup.

The decay time in my room is surprisingly flat around 400ms from 100hz to 10khz. The clarity decay curve is at 90% and a straight line from 100hz till 20khz. What more improvement can be made? Wondering

Imo most of the so called noise in powerlines could be imagination.

 

[prem]

Do a simple test. Remove the TV plug, refrigerator plug, microwave owen plug, washing machine plug, wifi router plug, satellite box plug from their sockets. Don’t switch off. Remove the plugs. Listen for 10-15 min. And see if you can hear any diff. If you can’t hear, you are fine. If you can hear, add back one gadget at a time and figure which ones cause the most problem. On those home gadgets you can add a filter.

Best filters to be used in home gadgets are those that are used by ham radio operators. These filters are not to be used in audio equipment

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Even if my budget allows me to buy one, I will consider only if one gives me to try for a month - else not. Reason - I fully doubt if it will matter to my setup.

The decay time in my room is surprisingly flat around 400ms from 100hz to 10khz. The clarity decay curve is at 90% and a straight line from 100hz till 20khz. What more improvement can be made? Wondering

Imo most of the so called noise in powerlines could be imagination.

Haha... Yeah you should try and buy only if your goodselves are convinced. But their effects are definitely not imaginative

 

[Hari Iyer]

Do a simple test. Remove the TV plug, refrigerator plug, microwave owen plug, washing machine plug, wifi router plug, satellite box plug from their sockets. Don’t switch off. Remove the plugs. Listen for 10-15 min. And see if you can hear any diff. If you can’t hear, you are fine. If you can hear, add back one gadget at a time and figure which ones cause the most problem. On those home gadgets you can add a filter.

Best filters to be used in home gadgets are those that are used by ham radio operators. These filters are not to be used in audio equipment

I tried this - removed all plugs from washing machine, refrigerator, microwave, TV settop box router, TV, wifi network, mixer, wet grinder. Only could not disconnect LED lighting, fan, geysers and AC from power line neutral. Only connected equipment was my CD transport, DAC and amplifier - which was powered on.

I played a soft song so that noise (if any) should not get masked by the music being played. But fortunately I could not make any difference before and after disconnecting the above gadgets. I also went to the extreme of putting my ears against the tweeter and midrange cone before and after. But it was same. I also played music which has some silent passages for me to not miss the noise. But again neither could I hear any hiss nor hum nor any crackle anywhere during the 30 minute testing.

I reconnected all my gadgets and listened again and found everything to be super quite. Hope I am not missing anything.

My amplifier has a 12 ohm thermistor and 0.1uf capacitor parallel to the thermistor and this is in series with the transformer primary to reduce inrush current during swith on. Also am using a high-end telecommunications fuse too - if that matters.

All the audio equipments are connected to a dedicated line taken from the mains tapping before they are distributed to other equipment MCBs. The wire is a 13awg mil spec silver plated copper wire used only for this application.

PS: I have used a high-end telecommunications line filter inside my phono preamplifier only as this device is more prone to pickup stray noise like RF and EMI which may be working for me as my phonopreamp too is dead silent.

 

[prem]

If you can’t hear any difference you should be fine.