Pre order new LP records for manufacture

[smedhavi]

Yes, I second Prem. The Sony-Navras digital masters are audiophile quality. I own the CDs mentioned above in my post which are recorded at half the commercial volume levels, have a huge dynamic range, and are crisp & warm at the same time. The CDs are obviously 44.1KHz/16 bit. Sony may have the original 192Khz/24bit or DSD studio masters. If they use those studio masters to press the 45RPM LPs, these would be worth all the effort and money. I would encourage people to look at the Navras catalog and shortlist from there. https://www.navrasrecords.com/

Coming to Saregama, anything that has been digitized from old analog albums is worthless. Just buy the used LPs and enjoy. But there is still something we could get from HMV; these largely fall into two categories:
1. Albums that were never released on LP, or LPs that are too rare to get, example:

• Chalti Ka Naam Gadi
• HOUSE NO. 44
• 78rpms Ghazal albums transferred to 45rpm LPs (Begum Akhtar, Mukhtar Begum, Grija Devi, Gauhar Jaan, Habib Wali Mohamed, Malika Pukhraj, etc.)
• Dil Padosi Hai (PSLP 1468 69) - very rare good recording
• Ijazat (PMLP 1154)
• Gulzar`s Mirza Ghalib (The TV Serial Ghazals) (2 LP SET) - PSLP 4000/1
• Varsha Ritu-Songs Of The RainySeason (ECLP 2414)
• Manna Dey Soulfully YourGeets & Ghazals (ECSD 2914)
• Jaal (3AEX 5127)

2. Albums which were recorded well on digital, but never released on vinyl. For instance, the recent release of 'Maachis' on LP was extremely good, and does not have the "Digitally re-mastered" sticker. In this category I would list:

• Leela (Soundtrack, by Jagjit singh. Recorded by Daman Sood. This is audiophile quality)
• Saadgi - by Lata Mangeshkar
• Sajda - Lata Mangeshkar & Jagjit Singh
• You can add more...

 

[prem]

Smedhavi, you are going back to the same issue. Analogue masters of the titles you have mentioned will not be available in most cases. Yes you can look at Sajda or Mirza Ghalib. Those masters should be available. If we are lucky Dil Padosi Hai and Ijazat may also be available. 78rpms, Jaal, House No 44, etc are all non starters.

 

[prem]

Smedhavi, Maachis is a digital recording. All new releases like Guru, Lagan, Dil to Pagal Hai, Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, etc sound good on vinyl

 

[anandvnath]

Since there is a lot of interest in classical, Sony has the Navras catalogue, many of whose titles are well recorded and mastered. They are digital but would be a good option to look at on vinyl

I am mostly into Carnatic as well as hindustani classical. Looked through Navras catalogue and found many I like.

I can also support the 90s music for a few titles such as 1942 A love story.

 

[smedhavi]

Smedhavi, you are going back to the same issue. Analogue masters of the titles you have mentioned will not be available in most cases.

78rpms, Jaal, House No 44, etc are all non starters.

What stops them from using the well preserved 78RPMs as sources, as they have done in the past? They have the music rights, so only they are allowed to legally release those recordings again. Anyone else doing that would be illegal.

If we are lucky Dil Padosi Hai and Ijazat may also be available.
Yes you can look at Sajda or Mirza Ghalib. Those masters should be available.

Smedhavi, Maachis is a digital recording. All new releases like Guru, Lagan, Dil to Pagal Hai, Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, etc sound good on vinyl

That is exactly the point I made above. We need to differentiate between the good digital recordings, from digitally re-mastered analog recordings, which are crap. You can add Leela, Sajda and Encore to your above list of good digital recordings. Jagjit Singh moved to digital recordings starting with Beyond Time ("first vocal digital recording in India", and was also released on LPs). Most of his albums after Beyond Time were digital recordings.

Lagaan and Guru are not Saregama/HMV recordings so fall in a different bucket.

 

[prem]

Smedhavi, what I am trying to say is Saregama does not have the masters of titles like Chalti Ka Naam Gadi. They will only have a digital archival copy. So your lp will be pressed from that.

Have you heard their vinyl pressings of Apradh, Bombay to Goa, etc which they released about 3 years back? It's pathetic. That's the sound quality you will get. They used digital masters for all these titles since they they did not have the analogue masters

Guru and Lagan are Sony releases. We have the option as per the OP to look at both Saregama as well as Sony releases

 

[smedhavi]

Smedhavi, what I am trying to say is Saregama does not have the masters of titles like Chalti Ka Naam Gadi. They will only have a digital archival copy. So your lp will be pressed from that.

Have you heard their vinyl pressings of Apradh, Bombay to Goa, etc which they released about 3 years back? It's pathetic. That's the sound quality you will get. They used digital masters for all these titles since they they did not have the analogue masters

I think we all agree that we do not need any digitally re-mastered pressings.
They have done worse than just a poor quality digital capture. I remember the rumors long back that they actually used VHS as track source for moves such as Maya, and did not even bother adjusting the pitch for the frame rate difference (24 vs 25).

Guru and Lagan are Sony releases. We have the option as per the OP to look at both Saregama as well as Sony releases

Yes, these Sony releases are easily available. Do you mean we could get something better than the commercially released if we ordered through this process? Of course, we could surely look at other Sony albums, not available on vinyl, and expect a similar quality.

 

[prem]

Smedhavi, I didn't mean to say we should do Guru and Lagan again. My post said these new releases sound good on vinyl

 

[smedhavi]

Agreed Prem

I see some Music Today albums on https://www.navrasrecords.com/
I wonder if this means Sony could press CDs for these too. Worth checking, as Music Today has some well recorded gems too, though their CD media is poor quality.

 

[mokshakumar]

Hi everyone,

I think the discussion is veering off in different directions with each reply, i would request Sreenivasan who has been in touch with Sony and Saregama to discuss with these companies and prepare a list of records which they think would do well and offer us to the forum members and the open market.

We discussing the nitty gritties does not lead the discussion anywhere, we all have our individual choices and we would want records for the same but working compiling and coordinating is a huge task thus the best would be asking the companies the records which they can offer in genres such as
Bollywood
Ghazals
Classical music

and we can choose whatever we want

regards

 

[canchi]

Excellent idea Mr. Sreenivasan. Am all for it. Hope the record companies agree with the idea and carry it forward.

While I agree with the previous post by Moksha Kumar, in the same breath, I would love to see a record company collaborate with AIR/ Doordarshan and bring out vinyl editions of all classical and semi classical concerts, Radio Sangeet Sammelan and the like where in tons and tons of analogue recordings would be stored.
Cheers

 

[prem]

Mokshakumar, Saregama and Sony are not interested in selling vinyls in the open market. Here the money has to be paid upfront. What we do with the 300 vinyls is our problem. Saregama, Sony, T Series, Universal did release a few titles in the last 3 years to explore the market. But it has been a disaster and they are simply not interested in exploring this market again

 

[prem]

Srinivasan, does the quote include the record jacket? If yes, ask Sony what the cost would be for a plain jacket? Multi coloured printed jacket for a run of 300 will be expensive. Maybe we can cut some costs there? Also what taxes will be levied? Since the vinyl will be pressed abroad, are there custom duties?

 

[Hiten]

Prem is highly experienced and in the same field. Kindly take his advice.

Labour of Love :
As I love vinyls I can guide to make vinyl jackets with no profit no loss. Rough Estimate is around approx. 7000/8000 for 300 pieces. That only includes CTP, Paper, Printing, Punch Making and punching pasting labour, Delivery in Mumbai. Will try to squeeze in lamination.

Goal : First you all have to decide why are you bringing out the vinyl. is it because
1) To promote and popularize vinyl format ?
2) Want specific titles ? (Will be difficult with no original tape masters) I have heard ROCKSTAR vinyl at Prem's place which is digitally recorded and sound quality was good.

Personally I find there is no point in listening to digital recording converted through highly altered RIAA stages. Unless someone has original raw recordings in very high resolution and audio CDs are mastered badly. But still if intention is to popularizing vinyl media, I am all for it. So I will give my time and effort if jackets are needed. Prem has suggested Sathiya and Dil chahta hai. They are good titles and highly popular. This will be of interest to young generation. Both Music directors are Top Notch so I presume they must have recorded in high res. format. This can be advantageous as typically they may have high quality ADC in their studios. And most of people dont have high quality DAC at home. So a little advatageous I believe. One can have hit songs from both films as compilation album. No compromise in vinyl mastering, pressing and vinyl material.

We should try to give best product. Money is important. Another suggestion is we can start a kick starter project to gather some funds.

Regards

 

[prem]

Navinsinha, Hiten, would any of you guys like to join Srinivasan, Arjun and me in forming a smaller group to look into all modalities including title selection

 

[prem]

Hiten, I have heard many of the original masters of newer titles. They are nice. What happens is when it goes for cd mastering they give a boost again and that screws it up in many cases. This is true for English stuff also. For example Adele 21 cd has a lower dynamic range as compared to vinyl primarily because of loudness factor being built in at time of cd mastering. The only thing we have to make sure is we have the original digital master

 

[smedhavi]

I am looking forward to what comes out of the core group. I hope we will not go for cheap two movies on one LP option, as that would defeat the purpose of a limited edition connoisseur only release. If cost is a big factor lossless downloads form Saregama may be the best option. If we are going through this effort, let us make it worthwhile by choosing 45RPM 180gram pressings. A 45RPM pressing would sound better with any given source material. So please consider that.

 

[santnai]

All we need is good pressing.... let's decide fast and move on...

 

[prem]

Smedhavi, no core group has been formed as yet. It was just a suggestion from my side. So far only arj has volunteered.

As far as 45rpm is concerned, I do not know the technicalities involved. I have only seen 45 rpm titles pressed at QRP. AFAIK Sony has not released any title in 45 rpm. So don't know if they have the facility. All those things will come into play only if we can find someone who will underwrite 300 vinyls

 

[vmscbe1974]

Hi members posting here the reply received from Mr.Rajesh for my queries as discussed by FMs. I think this should clear many doubts that arise within ourselves.

From: srinivasan mohan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 12:34 PM
To: Menon, Rajesh
Subject: Re: Lp pressing cost

Dear Mr.Rajesh

Greetings for the day. They were many positive response to this initiative, some felt the 300 numbers is bit large for an initial start up. With response to your mail need few clarifications on the following :

1. Tax percentage 12.5%

2. Can Lps be pressed without digital mastering from Old recordings on Lp / cassette or Reel..Yes

3. Can analogue mastering be done from masters of older recordings at DUM DUM Factory. HMV used to press Vinyl of soundtracks taken from older recordings.... yes

4. Can Lps be ordered other than SAREGAMA,SONY titlesYes

5. Lp Cover design.Need to get design or we can do new design

6. Can an Account be created by your Company for depositing the monies receivable for the order so as to facilitate the deposit of the advance remittance from interested buyers in full to be done for each project.Once the required full payment is received then the Lp project can be kick started from your end. (Yes I can arrange our dealer account who can facilitate the payment)