Primare I30 -- how good is it?

[hifisound]

I have heard NAD.. they have a powerful sound but definately colored.
So your ears if once get accustomed to colored sound , everything else seems too neutral.
Most mid-fi brands color their sound and thats why people like it immenselsy and they buy.NAD and Wharfedale are both notorious for coloring sound.
Wharfedale speakers(ex -9.5) produce such sound that if you get accustomed to them even 1lac and above speakers seem "mild" and neutral initially.
Happy listening !

Possible......
Though the other amps present there ( when I listened to primare ) , also brought out emotion in the music which primare didn't (or rather as much), but primare was way ahead in clarity.

Also is Primare also really neutral........ ?

Though if someone does not find it lacking in emotion, then its really a good buy.

 

[Spidey]

btw , from your configuration, i would have thought you are in market for a new amp in category of primare for your spks. Don't those Contours demand power and attention? You seem lucky to have found satisfaction at NAD 372.

 

[hifisound]

Well , I do feel that more clarity/resolution is needed , especially on some western recordings ( eg Diana Krall ) ..
Power doesn't seem to be a problem.

But most of my collection which is old hindi, ghazals, hindustani classical ( some which very high quality recordings from moment records etc ) etc sound good and enjoyable. So though I am planning a upgrade later , it would be for minor section of my collection . So have to do that without making the major part sounding bad or buy a more resolving amp just for recordings like Diana Krall or similar which are a very high quality recording.
Even when I bought the setup , I deliberately dedicated the major part of budget towards spks since spending towards spks was resulting in much inprovement in sound even with just NADs, rather than increasing budget in amp+cd and reducing it on spks. It may also seem that would such spks are overkill for my majority of my collection but when I auditioned it was not so. The tonal quality of spks helps everywhere...

But before I upgrade amp, I will looking for upgrading my source, with something like say Benchmark DAC, and see if that helps

 

[anm]

hey how much did you spend on the speakers?

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Guys,

Coal Train am in no way running down a primare product. There was a huge No of I 30 s bought a couple of years ago (WHAT HIFI did play a tiny role) and most people thought this was one of the best amplifiers on the planet for sensible money (1L approx). This it is not. What it is though is a clean sounding amplifier with reasonable current. If i am not wrong this amp is designed by one of the ex of Pass labs and the amplifiers are assembled in taiwan.
HIFISOUND this lack of emotion that u describe is actually the reason tons of guys call it a 'cold, sterile' sounding amp. I guess the reason a lot more stuff sounds acceptable on say a NAD amp as against a Primare is that a Nad is less revealing and more forgiving of old/poor recordings. Hence making it a less neutral amplifier. There is a pristine clarity in the reproduction of a primare that is totally missing in a Nad/Rotel amp. An arcam amp (A38 for Example) is a worthy rival. IMO a better built amplifier than the I30 and for lesser money. If u were to only rely on reviews then these Arcam amps are rubbish. This is an amp that is superbly built, highly reliable, lovely tone, enough power (this is relative) and grows on you. It has a better balance than the primare IMO. I also think your cdp is decent and i dunno how much (if any) improvement u will get going for budget Dacs.
Rgds

 

[coaltrain]

hi dinyaar

just saw your post. is the i30 available in b'bay for 1L? a friend who's interested in picking up one (and who's been bugging me to upgrade so he can grab mine ) says the uk price is now 1,750 sterling. that's approx 1.4L in rupee terms.
any info would be highly appreciated.

cheers

 

[hifisound]

Hi Guys,

......
HIFISOUND this lack of emotion that u describe is actually the reason tons of guys call it a 'cold, sterile' sounding amp. I guess the reason a lot more stuff sounds acceptable on say a NAD amp as against a Primare is that a Nad is less revealing and more forgiving of old/poor recordings. Hence making it a less neutral amplifier. There is a pristine clarity in the reproduction of a primare that is totally missing in a Nad/Rotel amp.
.......

Rgds

Particulary speaking about primare....
Even I heard old songs on Primare. It didn't tear them apart or something or they didn't sound bad. So its not about revealing/forgiving ...
The vocals seems to have more body and kind of "jump" out in amps like NAD on old as well as new recordings.
I was referring to this attribute.
Again I am not sure if NAD is forward or Primare is laidback.....

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Guys,
Coaltrain the primare was offered to me by SS at 1.05L a year and a half ago. Its MRP today should be around the 1.4L mark u mention.
Hifisound the nad is not forward nor is the primare laidback. Frankly they are two different sounds. I dont quite follow the part about the vocals jumping out at u in a nad amp. I also dont think the vocals jumping out is a good thing in any case. Having more body i agree but at the expense of clarity and transparency IMO.
See there was a market for Nad and there still is at the price that it sells internationally(local price is much higher as usual). Good power section, poor pre amp, reasonable build (for the money), enough grunt, trademark house sound.
Rgds

 

[hifisound]

Hi Dinyaar

By vocals jumping out I mean...., how do I say..... voices have more liveliness...

Btw one question to you ..
How would you compare Primare , Bryston and Accuphase. what do each of them have better/worse than other (since you have listened to all 3)

Thanks

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Dinyaar

By vocals jumping out I mean...., how do I say..... voices have more liveliness...

Btw one question to you ..
How would you compare Primare , Bryston and Accuphase. what do each of them have better/worse than other (since you have listened to all 3)

Thanks

Hi
I have had this craze about accuphase from the early 80s. An affluent uncle (pilot in air india then) had it and it really blew me away then. At the time the set up in my home was my dads quad ESL + Monos.
In the late 90s i bought a used Bryston 4BST and paired it with my B&W 804s and loved this crisp, punchy, dynamic sound which was bordering on hard/edgy with some recordings.
When i moved apartments i thought i will buy either brand and a B&W bookshelf as my home is smaller. Bought the 805s and then really scouted for amps.
My impression on the primare are that it is a clean sound with good dynamics but an uncertain treble. It will work for sensitive speakers but for me i felt it fell apart when cranked. I listen to a lot of western classical, opera too and at these times i felt i needed a better, bigger amp. For the regular soft rock, occasional jazz it was fine. The price was about a lac then.
Bryston SST was definately a step up from my ST in sound quality. MUch much more refinement and transparency while retaining the tremendous dynamics( i give huge imp. to this trait in amps). Unfortunately i bought the sst when the Co was making too many changes to these amps and i ended up getting amps that would keep playing up. NO COMPLAINS ON THE SOUND AT ALL. It was an effortless, musical sound and the edgy highs of the ST were gone. Price paid was 95 k for BP 6 pre and 1.5L for 3BSST and then 50K more for swapping the 3B to a 4BSST2.
The accuphase sound is a little coloured compared to the bryston. It is very dynamic but not as much as a Bryston 4B (100WPC int v/s 300WPC pre/power is actually unfair to compare) The trebles/mids are fantastic and the bass is taut. These amps have a fantastic way of presenting the music. Very smooth, non fatiguing sound without a loss of detail at all. Though its only 100 wpc it drives most speakers that we have tried and is superbly built. If u would just go by specs it is nothing out of the ordinary but believe me the sound is. Price paid 3.55L
Rgds

 

[hifisound]

Thanks Dinyaar for sharing your experiences with various amps.

Btw do you have any experience with Denon PMA-2000AE , or anybody in this forum ?

One of my friend was asking me about this amp.

This amp is not discussed much .....

 

[dinyaar]

Hi,
No I have not heard this Denon amplifier.Actually the last Denon Stereo amp i heard was a PMA 700 driving KEFs IQ3. I thought the combo was average but the amplifier seemed well built, had tone controls and was made in japan. I brought this amp down from UK and paid under 200 GBP.

Denons are said to be a little dull sounding and are better known for the avr s.
Rgds

 

[binoymehra]

We all know the performance of hifi set up is a sum total of all the components including cables and power cables. Yesterday I was able to hear Primare I21 with mine small bookshelf speakers. I can tell you it was giving wonderful presentation of music, was feeling like to continue listening as much. Very good details , dynamics with volume knob hardly around 27(vol knob can go up to 79). I found it extremely involving and balanced . The cables were all good and both the amp and cd player Marantz sa 7001 was with good powercord. I would take it as steal if one is getting a decent piece at a good discounted price and would be better than buying a pre/power combo up to 1 lakh. The build quality is a treat to look at.Can some body tell me the performance of Primare cd21 player.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Binoy,
If u like the I21 then the I 30 will really melt u. The cdp to buy is the CD 31. The I 21 is NOT DUAL MONO nor does it have balanced circuitry.

Since u mention the Volume @ 27 i'll mention that the Primare I 30 had to be cranked to about 60 to sound loud in my set up. Similar for the Arcam A38 which has a similar digitally displayed volume. Normal listening levels with the B&W 805s (88 db sensitivity) was about 48/50.
Point i am making is a different speaker totally changes the equation. Naturally that was a given but what most guys dont realize is that opinions can be extremely different from two guys with different associated equipment in different rooms.

Binoy upgrading again? Amp or cdp?

Rgds

 

[coaltrain]

@ binoy

i've owned the i21, and am currently using the i30. couple of quick points to note:

- i've heard the cd 21 and 31 and didn't like them much. imo, the ca 840c is a fantastic cdp that beats the cd31 hands down. (i bought one) try and audition the 740/840 with the primare.
- if you liked the i21 with the marantz, why not stick to that combo? i would imagine that the warmth of a marantz would gel nicely with the cooler primare.

@ dinyaar

there's something very odd about the volume control on the i30:
- on the i21, the volume displays 10 when you power up.
- on the i30, it starts at 30!
in effect, 30 on the i21 is 50 on the i31. weird, i know.

as i'm running amp and cdp in balanced mode, the cdp's output is twice the norm at 4v. coupled with my proac studio 140's 91 db sensitivity, 55 is enough to move the building

i've tried looking for an explanation for the difference in starting volume but haven't found one yet.

 

[Asit]

.... imo, the ca 840c is a fantastic cdp that beats the cd31 hands down. (i bought one) try and audition the 740/840 with the primare.

Oh, here is another person who likes the CA 740/840 CDPs. The 740 and the 840 CDPs have similar sound signatures, the 840 has balanced outputs and also more expensive DACs. When I auditioned them about a year ago, I was led to believe they could beat a few much more expensive CDPs quite easily. I own the 740. And it goes very nicely with my amp, although I sometimes wonder if I should have got the more expensive 840. I am going to stick to my 740.

Regards.

 

[dinyaar]

@ binoy

i've owned the i21, and am currently using the i30. couple of quick points to note:

- i've heard the cd 21 and 31 and didn't like them much. imo, the ca 840c is a fantastic cdp that beats the cd31 hands down. (i bought one) try and audition the 740/840 with the primare.
- if you liked the i21 with the marantz, why not stick to that combo? i would imagine that the warmth of a marantz would gel nicely with the cooler primare.

@ dinyaar

there's something very odd about the volume control on the i30:
- on the i21, the volume displays 10 when you power up.
- on the i30, it starts at 30!
in effect, 30 on the i21 is 50 on the i31. weird, i know.

as i'm running amp and cdp in balanced mode, the cdp's output is twice the norm at 4v. coupled with my proac studio 140's 91 db sensitivity, 55 is enough to move the building

i've tried looking for an explanation for the difference in starting volume but haven't found one yet.

Maybe the gains are set differently. Can the volume on power up not be selected like in an Arcam?
The music was barely audible at my home at about 27 if I remember on the I 30.
Your Pro ac is 91 DB while my B&W is 88 DB.( 3 DB difference is large) So am not surprised that at 55 u are shaking the foundation.
Regarding the CA cdps, well I have not heard either the 740 or the 840 so no comment but I do like the CD31 as a cdp. At the price it sold earlier I would have considered it but sadly at the time there was a price barrier to shatter!
Your set up of 840/I30/Proac 140 should be good.
BTW since u mentioned u run balanced have u checked whether pin 2 is hot in both components?
Rgds

 

[pseudophile]

Primare I30 is a great amp and pairs very well with the Dynas.

But its not worth buying in India as the current price is 1.6L pre tax!!

 

[coaltrain]

@ dinyaar

to answer your queries:

- no, gain cannot be set manually. in fact, i was using an analog ic at first, and thought that the display would switch from 30 to 10 when i plugged in the xlr. however, no change via balanced input.
- 27 on the i30 is 7 on the i21, hence it's not surprising that you didn't hear much.
- pin 2 is hot on both amp and cdp; something i checked when picking up a mogami cable with neutriks.

you really should give the 840c a listen. when used with more expensive gear, it truly shines. as one reviewer put it: it's a porsche spec cdp with a skoda price tag and a vw badge!

 

[afg]

I had got the Primare I30 home a few months back to demo with the Dyn 82s which I owned at that time and had a good time comparing it with the Cayin A88t tube amp.

To me, the Cayin sounded better to some extent. The Cayin seemed to have a better tone and emotion particularly on voices. The other issue I had with the Primare was that it did not drive the Dyns well on difficult tracks (like the Gladiator soundtrack) at lound volumes. This told me that the amp does not have high current capabilities. The volume control had also to be turned up quite high to get decent decibles

FWIW