Request help - Solution of protection for AVR and TV

[Subbu68]

Thank you both for responding but i guess i really am a noob. At my place, Power cuts do happen from time to time and also experience voltage fluctuations. Mine is a flat and not independent house.

Based on your updates, does it mean i have to go with a stabilizer or so? Even i am skeptical with Online UPS due to the possible noise issues.

Can i just buy a servo stabilizer and give connection from direct Mains without inverter and connect all the equipment to AVR and TV?
My current UPS inverter is just limited to 880 VA and I have other lights, fans and computer as well to fill in. Will definitely need a 2+KVA or even 3-4 KVS power conditioning or something.

I do have facilitated a 16A power supply in my TV unit which is not near the MAINS. If this is the case, can i use 3 KVA inverter to feed the stabilizer as well or we can skip the stabilizer if we give direct Inverter supply from Mains? At my place, power does go regularly.

Sorry, I missed your reply earlier.

If power interruptions are intolerable a UPS would be required I believe.

If you are aiming to cope with fluctuations a servo stabiliser would be needed. These are basically transformers with a buck and boost facility inside to control the output.

I would try to keep the UPS away unless the harmonics level at the output is very, very low like 1 or 2%. There should be a standard for these equipment in India these manufacturers should conform.

The harmonics are generated by the UPS themselves and are evil. The equipment they power are generally designed to work with pure 50Hz or 60Hz input. They may not have the capability to withstand extra heating caused by harmonics injected by UPS.

If someone has online UPS he may be able to corroborate - online UPS should be able to keep the AC voltage steady as well as help cope with interruptions. Logically, it is "always ON" through the AC-DC-AC chain (or providing AC power at output after converting the main AC to DC and back to the rated AC) while an off line version will "kick in" DC-AC only during interruption and DC-AC when mains is available to only charge the battery.

 

[raghupb]

I use a 1.1KVA UPS for the lighting circuit. At the AV wall, where all AV equipment is hosted, there is a 2KVA servo stabilizer.
Belkin strips to provide multiple connections after the servo.

UPS takes care of power interruptions, servo takes care of fluctuations. We normally don't use any amps when power goes out.
The UPS provides graceful shutdown of any amps in use. We do use the TV on UPS though.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Love4sound]

Is your neutral and phase reversed? That happens often when the plugs are not polarised. The phase gets extended to all DC earth of the equipment if L and N are reversed at the plug while plugging in a non-polarised plug into the power socket or if it not wired properly.

Generally these equipment are said to be double insulated needing no safety earth. The neutral wire of power supply gets terminated inside to the DC earth.

In UK (as well as Gulf) it is compulsory to have three pin plug so the user does not reverse P and N inadvertently.
View attachment 69570
In the US they have one of the blades of the plug a bit larger.

View attachment 69571
similarly in India the familiar 3 pin plug makes sure you plug L to L and N to N (if wired correctly).

If these companies do not conform to these spec they get sued in UK, US etc. Not sure if they are providing the 3 pin plug tops in India or are they getting away with a two pin chord. If it is a 2 pin plug see if reversing can solve the issue.

I checked all sockets and P and L are not reversed. Tv comes with 2 pin and I tried reversing it but no use

 

[Hari Iyer]

Imo, filtering the ha

Ok but there are few ups which provides clean filters in the output stage. There are few that comes with isolation transformer inbuilt.Currently at my place there are lot of issues and only isolation transformer is helping. If I connect tv in one socket and PA in another socket without isolation transformer the tv causes the PA to scream very loud. It’s like a motor is running inside the PA. I tried with EMI filters and still it was ineffective. Only way I was able to fix this issue is to connect the tv to a socket and connect the PA to an isolation transformer connected in different socket. Isolation transformer seems to be very effective in power conditioning. Next I am planning to get a rontek PDU that comes with high/low voltage cutoff and surge protection.

Imo filtering the harmonics will remove the juice from the music and make it sound dull, boring and lifeless. Also transient response will be very poor and the setup will sound sterile.

 

[Subbu68]

Imo, filtering the ha
Imo filtering the harmonics will remove the juice from the music and make it sound dull, boring and lifeless. Also transient response will be very poor and the setup will sound sterile.

It is the harmonics from the power supply you filter. If you left them the power transformer of the amp and other equipment will get fried in no time. It is called over fluxing. Simple electromagnetics and transformer theory. Power Transformers are designed for 50 / 60Hz not like audio transformers.

 

[Hari Iyer]

It is the harmonics from the power supply you filter. If you left them the power transformer of the amp and other equipment will get fried in no time. It is called over fluxing. Simple electromagnetics and transformer theory. Power Transformers are designed for 50 / 60Hz not like audio transformers.

I have connected all my equipment to the wall outlet and there is no harmonic filter. I have not fried anything till date. Wondering. Are you referring to the UPS output?

 

[Subbu68]

I have connected all my equipment to the wall outlet and there is no harmonic filter. I have not fried anything till date. Wondering. Are you referring to the UPS output?

Yes, the UPS output. If not filtered properly it can fry things. Harmonics increase the eddy currents, increased ohmic losses resulting in heating of core, winding and other components, failure of insulation and final death of trafo. In power network there is a special transformer called K-rated trafos to withstand such effects probably used in industrial systems.

There are standards the UPS manufacturers have to conform to, to get certified. International standard is <3% THD on high voltage side and < 3 to 5% on LV networks.

Increasing usage of power electronics in the form of house hold inverters, TVs and computers with SMPS, inverter aircons etc. will add harmonics to the system and could affect all those connected to the same network.

 

[Musicforsalvation]

Sorry, I missed your reply earlier.

If power interruptions are intolerable a UPS would be required I believe.

If you are aiming to cope with fluctuations a servo stabiliser would be needed. These are basically transformers with a buck and boost facility inside to control the output.

I would try to keep the UPS away unless the harmonics level at the output is very, very low like 1 or 2%. There should be a standard for these equipment in India these manufacturers should conform.

The harmonics are generated by the UPS themselves and are evil. The equipment they power are generally designed to work with pure 50Hz or 60Hz input. They may not have the capability to withstand extra heating caused by harmonics injected by UPS.

If someone has online UPS he may be able to corroborate - online UPS should be able to keep the AC voltage steady as well as help cope with interruptions. Logically, it is "always ON" through the AC-DC-AC chain (or providing AC power at output after converting the main AC to DC and back to the rated AC) while an off line version will "kick in" DC-AC only during interruption and DC-AC when mains is available to only charge the battery.

Since we should opt for voltage stabilizers instead of UPS unless backup is required, what are your thoughts on static voltage stabilizers? unlike servos which would take a second to respond they are really quick in regulating voltage and are completely noiseless as well.

 

[Subbu68]

Since we should opt for voltage stabilizers instead of UPS unless backup is required, what are your thoughts on static voltage stabilizers? unlike servos which would take a second to respond they are really quick in regulating voltage and are completely noiseless as well.

Honestly I have no first hand experience of stabilizers since I have a very stable power supply in Abu Dhabi where I live.

Static Stabilizers are quick as they are switching devices unlike servo stabilizers where a motor moves to adjust the tap of the transformer. Lack of mechanical parts means better reliability too.

What is Voltage Stabilizer & How it Works? Types of Stabilizers

Types of Voltage Stabilizers. Difference between Stabilizer & Regulator. How to Choose a Correct Sized Voltage Stabilizer? Why we Need Voltage Stabilizers.

www.electricaltechnology.org

 

[Musicforsalvation]

Honestly I have no first hand experience of stabilizers since I have a very stable power supply in Abu Dhabi where I live.

Static Stabilizers are quick as they are switching devices unlike servo stabilizers where a motor moves to adjust the tap of the transformer. Lack of mechanical parts means better reliability too.

What is Voltage Stabilizer & How it Works? Types of Stabilizers

Types of Voltage Stabilizers. Difference between Stabilizer & Regulator. How to Choose a Correct Sized Voltage Stabilizer? Why we Need Voltage Stabilizers.

www.electricaltechnology.org

Thank You!

 

[warrior047]

Dear all,

I got more info now. We have some random power cuts but the DG would give the power back in 30 sec. However if i want just the power protection w.r.to surges etc., Would below be helpful?

IGBT static stabilizer (Direct 16A Socket) -> Belkin Surge protector-> AVR (Ref -> https://www.hifivision.com/threads/my-journey-on-securing-my-ht-gear.86672/)
Or IGBT static stabilizer or Servo Stabilizer (Direct 16A Socket) -> Sound Foundations POWERBASE power filter and protection unit -> AVR
Or Servo Stabilizer (Direct 16A Socket) -> Belkin Surge protector -> AVR
Or Regular Voltage stabilizer like DIGI-200->belkin Surge protector -> AVR+TV

I cant go with Online UPS due to noise issues and no power conditioners also as i read otherwise options. Am sorry am asking again.
I have existing Pure sine wave UPS of 880 VA which is being used for lights, TV and fans with no noise at all. Guess its offline and old with tubular batteries.

Pls suggest. my AVR is Denon X4700H

Lot of options and lots of articles read with multiple and varied opinions. Confused

 

[Musicforsalvation]

Dear all,

I got more info now. We have some random power cuts but the DG would give the power back in 30 sec. However if i want just the power protection w.r.to surges etc., Would below be helpful?

IGBT static stabilizer (Direct 16A Socket) -> Belkin Surge protector-> AVR (Ref -> https://www.hifivision.com/threads/my-journey-on-securing-my-ht-gear.86672/)
Or IGBT static stabilizer or Servo Stabilizer (Direct 16A Socket) -> Sound Foundations POWERBASE power filter and protection unit -> AVR
Or Servo Stabilizer (Direct 16A Socket) -> Belkin Surge protector -> AVR
Or Regular Voltage stabilizer like DIGI-200->belkin Surge protector -> AVR+TV

I cant go with Online UPS due to noise issues and no power conditioners also as i read otherwise options. Am sorry am asking again.
I have existing Pure sine wave UPS of 880 VA which is being used for lights, TV and fans with no noise at all. Guess its offline and old with tubular batteries.

Pls suggest. my AVR is Denon X4700H

Lot of options and lots of articles read with multiple and varied opinions. Confused

The confusion is understandable. But if we have to stop the surges & spikes, there is no better option than static stabilizer because of it's extremely quick response time. I had spoken to the manufacturer mentioned on the thread you quoted & he has clarified a lot of things which others were not able to clarify & educate.

 

[warrior047]

The confusion is understandable. But if we have to stop the surges & spikes, there is no better option than static stabilizer because of it's extremely quick response time. I had spoken to the manufacturer mentioned on the thread you quoted & he has clarified a lot of things which others were not able to clarify & educate.

Ok. So if i just stick to static stabilizer for AVR alone, that did be enough? No need of any other power conditioning for this output rgt?
I have gone through many thread and only options recommended were Servo/Servo+Isolation Trans/servo+Power strip/Online UPS/Servo+Online UPS.

I just want to keep things simple with maximum possible protection.

One more issue is - i have only living room where i am having this HT setup. And for everyday basis am scared now to use AVR just to watch news etc.,
Do you recommend having 2 systems here to same TV as below:
1. AVR (OTT +HD Media player) through one HDMI In of TV
2. Soundbar (DTH) through other HDMI In of TV

This way - i can use AVR only when i want to see movies or music. Does it make good option?
Catch is - i need to have separate power input sockets for AVR, Sound bar, TV, DTH, OTT and HD media player - is it fine?

 

[aeroash]

Ok. So if i just stick to static stabilizer for AVR alone, that did be enough? No need of any other power conditioning for this output rgt?
I have gone through many thread and only options recommended were Servo/Servo+Isolation Trans/servo+Power strip/Online UPS/Servo+Online UPS.

I just want to keep things simple with maximum possible protection.

One more issue is - i have only living room where i am having this HT setup. And for everyday basis am scared now to use AVR just to watch news etc.,
Do you recommend having 2 systems here to same TV as below:
1. AVR (OTT +HD Media player) through one HDMI In of TV
2. Soundbar (DTH) through other HDMI In of TV

This way - i can use AVR only when i want to see movies or music. Does it make good option?
Catch is - i need to have separate power input sockets for AVR, Sound bar, TV, DTH, OTT and HD media player - is it fine?

This is paranoia!
There have been systems that have gone belly up despite all of the so called “protection” devices. The irony being, faulty protection devices malfunctioning and frying everything in its path!

Appliances these days can tolerate a wide band of voltage frequency, the need for a stabiliser is diminished. All you need is a UPS Online/Offline, and an Under/Over voltage protector.

 

[Musicforsalvation]

Ok. So if i just stick to static stabilizer for AVR alone, that did be enough? No need of any other power conditioning for this output rgt?
I have gone through many thread and only options recommended were Servo/Servo+Isolation Trans/servo+Power strip/Online UPS/Servo+Online UPS.

I just want to keep things simple with maximum possible protection.

One more issue is - i have only living room where i am having this HT setup. And for everyday basis am scared now to use AVR just to watch news etc.,
Do you recommend having 2 systems here to same TV as below:
1. AVR (OTT +HD Media player) through one HDMI In of TV
2. Soundbar (DTH) through other HDMI In of TV

This way - i can use AVR only when i want to see movies or music. Does it make good option?
Catch is - i need to have separate power input sockets for AVR, Sound bar, TV, DTH, OTT and HD media player - is it fine?

Would highly recommend you to simplify things. In order to have protection from surge & voltage fluctuations go for static stabilizer as a mainline unit which will protect AVR, sound bar etc together. It will smoothly regulate the voltage & if there is something beyond the range then it would cutoff the supply in millisecond. Nothing much to complicate. If you have more questions about what static stabilizer can offer, please contact this manufacturer-
Name: NKB Technocrats
Phone: 9660061987

 

[Musicforsalvation]

This is paranoia!
There have been systems that have gone belly up despite all of the so called “protection” devices. The irony being, faulty protection devices malfunctioning and frying everything in its path!

Appliances these days can tolerate a wide band of voltage frequency, the need for a stabiliser is diminished. All you need is a UPS Online/Offline, and an Under/Over voltage protector.

If the systems are frying despite of using a protection device it means that protection device is not quick enough to regulate or seize the surges/spike that occur in milliseconds. UPS creates noise & induces harmonics ..not an ideal option.

An ideal protection device is which would regulate the incoming voltage super quick(in millisecond) and has inbuilt under/over voltage cutoff.

 

[kmkaks]

Sirs, if I may ask, what is the best way to protect a 55 inch oled tv from primarily Power Cuts and secondarily low voltage issue? I am from Kerala and afraid that power cuts will lead to burn in by stopping automatic pixel refresh. I tried reading your earlier posts, they were too complex for my simple electricaly unenlightened mind.

I'd prefer to use this line interactive, simulated sine wave ups:

Power Solutions Inverter UPS Battery

Microtek India is largest power product manufacturer offering Inverter UPS for home, Jumbo UPS Battery, Voltage Stabilizer, Wires and Cables, Solar Products, E-Rickshaw charger, Health Products.

www.microtekdirect.com

Is this good enough? I do not have any AvR equipment and do not plan on getting any. Will harmonics from this ups destroy tv in the long run?

Will be extremely grateful if you can help out since I need to buy my solution asap.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[Subbu68]

Even Offline UPS may not help you. If there is an interruption during pixel refresh and UPS being offline there will be a blip. Though it will be very short for us humans for electronics that may be enough to interrupt the process.

As far as harmonics, TV itself is the greatest source of EMI and harmonics.

 

[Love4sound]

Sirs, if I may ask, what is the best way to protect a 55 inch oled tv from primarily Power Cuts and secondarily low voltage issue? I am from Kerala and afraid that power cuts will lead to burn in by stopping automatic pixel refresh. I tried reading your earlier posts, they were too complex for my simple electricaly unenlightened mind.

I'd prefer to use this line interactive, simulated sine wave ups:

Power Solutions Inverter UPS Battery

Microtek India is largest power product manufacturer offering Inverter UPS for home, Jumbo UPS Battery, Voltage Stabilizer, Wires and Cables, Solar Products, E-Rickshaw charger, Health Products.

www.microtekdirect.com

Is this good enough? I do not have any AvR equipment and do not plan on getting any. Will harmonics from this ups destroy tv in the long run?

Will be extremely grateful if you can help out since I need to buy my solution asap.

Thanks in Advance.

Pixel refresh is a process that runs only in 4 hour intervals.Also for some reason if it was interrupted due to power cut it will run again. I use a 65 inch oled LG c9 and it causes a lot of noise so i have disconnected it from my HT chain and connected it directly to the wall socket with no protection. so you don't have to worry about burn in die to power cuts. Just track the TV usage hours and make sure it is in standby for 20 minutes when usage crosses 4 hours

 

[Subbu68]

Pixel refresh is a process that runs only in 4 hour intervals.Also for some reason if it was interrupted due to power cut it will run again. I use a 65 inch oled LG c9 and it causes a lot of noise so i have disconnected it from my HT chain and connected it directly to the wall socket with no protection. so you don't have to worry about burn in die to power cuts. Just track the TV usage hours and make sure it is in standby for 20 minutes when usage crosses 4 hours

But interrupting pixel refresh could be detrimental in the long run?? That's what I read. I don't own a OLED TV nor use TV a lot