Rotel vs Yamaha vs Audiolab Integtated

[amitanubha]

Hello

I am about to buy new floorstanding speakers (lumina vs b&w 603 s3) and looking for a choice of all in one powerful amp which can drive demanding loads like I m told lumina v needs current as they are rated 4ohms, though I dont plan to fill big space or volume but clarity at low to moderate volumes is needed
Sources are going to be strictly digital streaming and room is untreated
Is room correction a good to have because then choices totally changes or they are very limited
Shortlisted
Rotel either 140w aio or 200w integrated
Audiolab 9000A
Yamaha rn1000a mainly due to ypao
NAD meh didn’t like class d yet but have Dirac if we buy full lic
And lastly minidsp flex but costly in india and adds another box on top
What should be order of pretence in features / power
Kindly suggest

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hello

I am about to buy new floorstanding speakers (lumina vs b&w 603 s3) and looking for a choice of all in one powerful amp which can drive demanding loads like I m told lumina v needs current as they are rated 4ohms, though I dont plan to fill big space or volume but clarity at low to moderate volumes is needed
Sources are going to be strictly digital streaming and room is untreated
Is room correction a good to have because then choices totally changes or they are very limited
Shortlisted
Rotel either 140w aio or 200w integrated
Audiolab 9000A
Yamaha rn1000a mainly due to ypao
NAD meh didn’t like class d yet but have Dirac if we buy full lic
And lastly minidsp flex but costly in india and adds another box on top
What should be order of pretence in features / power
Kindly suggest

Hi again

I dont think your goodselves will need a serious DSP in the chain, as this will not be a multi channel setup with multiple subs.

For a 2 channel system, I've always preferred limited intervention in the bass, only in the region where the room interferes ( usually below 250 hz). And any digital chain that offers simple PEQ ( Parametric equalisation) will suffice. All one has to do is, measure with Umik / Rew, find the bass peaks, and cull them in the PEQ. And I've preferred doing this in the digital domain before the signal hits the dac.

There are lots of folks who love dirac live full range correction, but I only tried a previous version, which I didnt like running full range. So I can't suggest one way or other about dirac or other full range corrections.

So your goodselves dont have to limit your amplifier options to only those that offer room correction. You can choose an amp you like, and then do the correction in many of the streamers or dacs available today with PEQ filters. All the best

 

[amitanubha]

Hi again

I dont think your goodselves will need a serious DSP in the chain, as this will not be a multi channel setup with multiple subs.

For a 2 channel system, I've always preferred limited intervention in the bass, only in the region where the room interferes ( usually below 250 hz). And any digital chain that offers simple PEQ ( Parametric equalisation) will suffice. All one has to do is, measure with Umik / Rew, find the bass peaks, and cull them in the PEQ. And I've preferred doing this in the digital domain before the signal hits the dac.

There are lots of folks who love dirac live full range correction, but I only tried a previous version, which I didnt like running full range. So I can't suggest one way or other about dirac or other full range corrections.

So your goodselves dont have to limit your amplifier options to only those that offer room correction. You can choose an amp you like, and then do the correction in many of the streamers or dacs available today with PEQ filters. All the best

Agreed don’t like too much professional just some fine tuning with my ears is good enough , pls suggest some peq based streamer dac or just dac

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Agreed don’t like too much professional just some fine tuning with my ears is good enough , pls suggest some peq based streamer dac or just dac

RME dacs have inbuilt PEQ filters. Some dacs from topping like the D30 III have it too.

Even the Minidsp offerings like Minidsp studio and SHD have PEQ's built-in. But the minidsp units do have a learning curve.

If you do decide to use something like Roon or Jriver down the line, they also have inbuilt PEQ's.

 

[amitanubha]

I was earlier thinking Rotel Ras 5000 aio but see connections are sparse and more digital sources bur rotel 1592 mk2 has both and spades of power and cheaper, perhaps then I have to think 2 box solution eventually and external streamer sac with rift room correction is way to go

 

[amitanubha]

Rotel distributor in Delhi is playing games with pricing and jacking up or not letting me buy from other dealer , so I decided to move on and now back to looking. I m suggested a parasound halo a23+ lower amp plus wilm pro or other streamer but also told that line level wont match good so I have to increase volume on power amp
Or arcam sa30 as all in one , any suggestions/ feedback for pairing with lumina v

 

[Phew]

Is he charging you over and above the prices mentioned online? If so, such sellers and their practices should be condemned.
Also worth noting is why would any distributor do such a thing especially when the prices(indian) are mentioned online on many sites. Also if he sells it or his dealer, he gets his share of the pofit.

 

[insane79]

Or arcam sa30 as all in one , any suggestions/ feedback for pairing with lumina v

Rotel will pair better than Arcam for the Lumina v. I had the Sa30 in the past & had alot of reliability issues with it both software & hardware.

 

[amitanubha]

It is like buying a luxury house, stereo music listening hobby is a niche market, not like commodity AVR(nothing wrong just market wise) where prices are determined by market forces, competition, demand/supply curve, in stereo by supply/importers
Online prices are nothing but what importers decide and usually none of us buy on online prices, do you? We usually end up checking right prices (we call them discounts, but they are not , no one pays from pocket, there is no free lunch).
Being an unregulated market prices are determined by 2 factors - USD / China/ Spore prices, from where distributors import and taxes above all (bulk buying get better prices think again AVR, and luxury items sells less so gets less pricing). On top of that huge margins are baked in (nothing wrong as everyone is in business of making money and investing capital be it physical space/demos and or online - obviously much cheaper)
Now with these ground rules/thoughts: Let's say a customer x goes to a delayer y/ checks price online and then hunts for best prices, compare price online, checks discounts currently being offered, end of life products as there are new generation upcoming and considers VFM as per his/her status. We have numerous examples of prices suddenly dropping by 50% on online sites etc.. and also fluctuation based on conversion rates
Now where it gets tricky for my specific case is, 2 items.
1. A product which as apples 2 apples comparison should be ideally same ballpark price if it is same in USD, in this case it is not (same brand), a huge inr price difference and logic provided is certainly flimsy(it is award winning product, india certification all bakwaas)
2. I got a certain discount from a dealer but as packaged deal with speakers i was getting a better deal from another dealer, now importer is saying no to him, and asking to jack prices and dont give this discount why ? (BTW we are talking difference in range 5-10% only not a huge)

As a user you feel let down by brand/importer and smacks of ability to control pricing (just because they can hold the stock longer like luxury house again). Not sure now why importer don't want his share of money, i cant answer
Certainly in his right he can do whatever he wants and i can just ramble or feel dealing in a non competeting market(being in india cant do much anyway)
So as a user you can't do much but move to other brand and in process kind of lose lose for everyone and not good for overall market
I just don't want them to hold a control over me on my buying choices and prices and wants a free market deal without monopolizing any part of process. It is not about money but feeling like giving to his demands, though i can certainly spend this much then extra 5%

You know what every dog has its day and tides turn around fast in market (recession coming fast) , hold to green and play when you have power back in ur hand

 

[Phew]

Online prices are nothing but what importers decide and usually none of us buy on online prices, do you?

YES I have, I have also purchased audio equipment on 10% usual discount.

We usually end up checking right prices (we call them discounts, but they are not , no one pays from pocket, there is no free lunch).
Being an unregulated market prices are determined by 2 factors - USD / China/ Spore prices, from where distributors import and taxes above all (bulk buying get better prices think again AVR, and luxury items sells less so gets less pricing). On top of that huge margins are baked in (nothing wrong as everyone is in business of making money and investing capital be it physical space/demos and or online - obviously much cheaper)
Now with these ground rules/thoughts: Let's say a customer x goes to a delayer y/ checks price online and then hunts for best prices, compare price online, checks discounts currently being offered, end of life products as there are new generation upcoming and considers VFM as per his/her status.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in checking and comparing prices from various dealers and buying the one you find most appropriate.

We have numerous examples of prices suddenly dropping by 50% on online sites etc.. and also fluctuation based on conversion rates

I am yet to come across brand new previous/current year manufactured audio products in india selling overnight at 50%. Maybe you can share a few.

Now where it gets tricky for my specific case is, 2 items.
1. A product which as apples 2 apples comparison should be ideally same ballpark price if it is same in USD, in this case it is not (same brand), a huge inr price difference and logic provided is certainly flimsy(it is award winning product, india certification all bakwaas)

Actually you do need a WPC certificate for importing wireless and bluetooth equipment for sale.

2. I got a certain discount from a dealer but as packaged deal with speakers i was getting a better deal from another dealer, now importer is saying no to him, and asking to jack prices and dont give this discount why ? (BTW we are talking difference in range 5-10% only not a huge)

Thats a way of the distributor keeping all his dealers on the same track so that the brands pricing retains uniformity all across and the brand does not get labeled as "highly discounted brand". Which is absolutely fine from the distributors point of view but from a customers point of view its a big negative.
There are many online sites in india which are not authourised to sell respective brand products yet they list them at lower prices to trap the customer. Many brands have issued information claiming many online portals are not authourised and warned customers not to buy from them. So will this notice also imply that the brands are 'jacking up' the prices?

As a user you feel let down by brand/importer and smacks of ability to control pricing (just because they can hold the stock longer like luxury house again). Not sure now why importer don't want his share of money, i cant answer
Certainly in his right he can do whatever he wants and i can just ramble or feel dealing in a non competeting market(being in india cant do much anyway)
So as a user you can't do much but move to other brand and in process kind of lose lose for everyone and not good for overall market
I just don't want them to hold a control over me on my buying choices and prices and wants a free market deal without monopolizing any part of process. It is not about money but feeling like giving to his demands, though i can certainly spend this much then extra 5%

You know what every dog has its day and tides turn around fast in market (recession coming fast) , hold to green and play when you have power back in ur hand

I understand the disappointment. Its best to move to brands that fit your budget as you will find many distributors with this attitude but that is not to say all of them are the same, some do offer genuine pricing. There will be brands priced sensibly in india and there will be brands priced absurdly same goes for distributors attitude, you just have to filter through this mess and arrive at what suits you best.

As for your question regarding arcam, the SA series has somewhat been an unreliability magnet

 

[amitanubha]

For

YES I have, I have also purchased audio equipment on 10% usual discount.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in checking and comparing prices from various dealers and buying the one you find most appropriate.

I am yet to come across brand new previous/current year manufactured audio products in india selling overnight at 50%. Maybe you can share a few.

Actually you do need a WPC certificate for importing wireless and bluetooth equipment for sale.

Thats a way of the distributor keeping all his dealers on the same track so that the brands pricing retains uniformity all across and the brand does not get labeled as "highly discounted brand". Which is absolutely fine from the distributors point of view but from a customers point of view its a big negative.
There are many online sites in india which are not authourised to sell respective brand products yet they list them at lower prices to trap the customer. Many brands have issued information claiming many online portals are not authourised and warned customers not to buy from them. So will this notice also imply that the brands are 'jacking up' the prices?

I understand the disappointment. Its best to move to brands that fit your budget as you will find many distributors with this attitude but that is not to say all of them are the same, some do offer genuine pricing. There will be brands priced sensibly in india and there will be brands priced absurdly same goes for distributors attitude, you just have to filter through this mess and arrive at what suits you best.

As for your question regarding arcam, the SA series has somewhat been an unreliability magnet

For a full disclosure can you confirm you are an actual user and not a distributor yourself perhaps same one I m ranting, somehow feels to looking
at ur profile from new delhi

 

[Phew]

For

For a full disclosure can you confirm you are an actual user and not a distributor yourself perhaps same one I m ranting, somehow feels to looking
at ur profile from new delhi

What comfirmation do you need?
Should all members from New Delhi now put their office id's or business cards as their DP for your assumptions?

Your ability to think straight seems to have taken a hit as your trick to go knee to knee for discounts having fallen flat on its face.

 

[amitanubha]

What comfirmation do you need?
Should all members from New Delhi now put their office id's or business cards as their DP for your assumptions?

Your ability to think straight seems to have taken a hit as your trick to go knee to knee for discounts having fallen flat on its face.

That's not a straight answer and you seem to take allt this way too personally something is fishy here
I can rebut each point you have provided but don't have time to engage
And yes I can get 25% off on what you think you buy with 10% so I let you decide whose argument is falling on face
Some of us do earn and spend wisely

 

[Phew]

That's not a straight answer and you seem to take allt this way too personally something is fishy here
I can rebut each point you have provided but don't have time to engage

Hahaha.... Yet you can falsely blame a distributor for jacking up prices when he clearly hasn't. The issue is simple the tactic you used for discount didn't work on this particular distributor and hence the bitterness from your end.

I never take people like you seriously so I haven't taken anything personally.

And yes I can get 25% off on what you think you buy with 10% so I let you decide whose argument is falling on face
Some of us do earn and spend wisely

And yet I have the gear I need and you on the other hand are busy wrongly accusing others on forums.

 

[amitanubha]

Hahaha.... Yet you can falsely blame a distributor for jacking up prices when he clearly hasn't. The issue is simple the tactic you used for discount didn't work on this particular distributor and hence the bitterness from your end.

I never take people like you seriously so I haven't taken anything personally.



And yet I have the gear I need and you on the other hand are busy wrongly accusing others on forums.

Cool matter closed enjoy your gear I will enjoy music

 

[insane79]

Well my 2 cents, this was bound to happen as we Indians go & negotiate from one dealer to all the dealers in the country.
This creates crazy commotion as every dealer asks the distributor the best price for the product. So i guess now distributors are fed up of this & are fixing a max discount for their products to be sold in the market. This is also followed around the world & people buy from the dealer they get the best service from. If the brand offers additional discount during holiday season example Xmas in the US/Europe then the discount is passed to all dealers. I remember when i bought few things for my system when in Europe, i was offered exactly the same discount everywhere. So i choose the shop i was comfortable with(closer to my hotel).

So at the end of the day, buy what the market price is, if not you can always buy preowned from the classifieds section on this forum or check out other platforms.

Cheers.