Slow Build : 5.1.2 | ₹ ~ 1L | 11' X 16.5' Living room

[robin3989]

If one does not have an AVR, a stereo setup can provide a phantom center.
With an AVR + center there are advantages. The voice/dialogs are firmly rooted.
Also AVR has Dolby modes for stereo input too, as is the case for some streaming services.
Think of phantom center as funnel-in towards MLP, and a real center channel as funnel out from speaker.

Cheers,
Raghu

This makes sense and thanks @raghupb for the explanation.
So the center channel blends with the holographic centre image projected by the fronts and localizes it to the center.

When I sit in a side sofa, the dialogues don’t sound like they come from the center (when they are meant to), but off center towards the speaker I am close to. I suppose that might be remedied by a separate center speaker in a HT - it can make off center viewing more pleasurable. And probably they center speaker is more tunes to human voice.

This is possible too. Because in stereo, the listening position is so important to experience the center image. Moving off center will collapse the entire build up.

I actually thought so too till I actually got the chance to experience with & without, trust me, with is better & worth it.[/B]

I was just speaking with my own experiences from stereo listening. HT is a different story, and if you have seen the differences and benefits, go for it.

But there are very good bookshelf like the one I have right now (Edifier R1280DB) amazing for the price & the dialogues are clear, mind that I don't go beyond 50% volume ever on those. They are very bang for the bucks. 5* stuff right there. They are neutral, just adjusted the base & trebel knobs to my liking but they're very good but little lacking on base, but it's unfair to complain at that price point.

Looks like these are some nice affordable hassle free active speakers, glad to hear you have enjoyed listening to them.

These guys seem to disagree. Also, I am not into high volumes, small to medium because I live in an apartment.

I just took a look at the spec sheet of Q350 before posting my response. It looked to me, these are reasonably sensitive, and impedance wise, moderate load. Driving these won't be difficult, but does the woofers move at low volume levels? May be @raghupb could jump in and provide a verified response.

I did some searching around, I think the SunFire is a sealed one. Also, the BIC is slightly expensive but is a 12". The one I'm looking for is an 8". Don't want to rattle the whole apartment/building, just some good tight base.

Typically for HT use, ported designs are preferred. That doesn't mean sealed won't work. Not getting into sealed vs ported battle. But, for low volume listening, a bigger sub woofer driver has an advantage than 8 inchers. Again, the bass from sub depends significantly on your room and sub placement. For HT use, and all those gears you are planning to put together, i insist you go for a bigger powerful sub. You can always tune that to your taste if you are willing to invest sometime integrating the sub to the rest of the components. I remember, they mentioned BIC PL200II is sold for ~45k.

 

[sud98]

I think this hobby rewards patience unless you have an unlimited budget. We have all been in a similar boat at some point of time.

You can start with a goof L+R and an AVR and a sub for now, then add centre and then add surrounds and a possible second sub. In a rented place surrounds would be difficult to manage as you will need to drill to hold them IMHO.

I started with a custom speaker and stereo amp, moved to an AVR then a centre speaker and then a 5.1 with a pre-pro.

 

[avtar2008]

Good info. I would love to checkout your setup once it is complete.

yeah sure, I will post pics of my complete setup once it is done.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

I think this hobby rewards patience unless you have an unlimited budget. We have all been in a similar boat at some point of time.

I’d further speculate that even with unlimited budget one would need patience to feel rewarded. One has to really get involved in synergisation of the system components and also the listening room. Theoretically one could pay experts to do that too. But you’d miss on the biggest rewards of this hobby - engagement and learning.

 

[thetourer]

Combination #1: taga 806 center + taga 806f : Sound and crossover between center and front was seamlesa.

Combination #2: taga 806 center + elac debut 2.0 floor: if you run them on 2ch only, then music/movie was good(for 2ch standard), After that when he switch to surround(806 center + elac floor), music was still good, but when i watched "bahubali" for 15min(luckily he got busy in other work), i felt previous combination was better since i was "experiencing" 2 different sounds.

Combination #3: elac floor + elac center: experience was again seamless and bahubali experience was now better.

All the auditions I've taken are with LCR having same brand/family. and your research only confirms what I've been thinking myself. LCR must be he same brand/family. any mix & match, the rythm goes for a toss. The big question is which one should I go for?

- Q Acoustics Concept 20 & Q Acoustics Concept Center [67,000] - bookshelf set.
- Heco Victa Prime 702 & 102 Center [60,900] - These are tower set.
- Polk S30 & S50 - [72500] - Again, tower set.

I'm looking mainly at the bookshelf type instead of tower for better mid, high & soundstage since I'm going for a sub to do all the low frequency work for me. Suggestions welcome.

 

[thetourer]

I just took a look at the spec sheet of Q350 before posting my response. It looked to me, these are reasonably sensitive, and impedance wise, moderate load. Driving these won't be difficult, but does the woofers move at low volume levels? May be @raghupb could jump in and provide a verified response.

Typically for HT use, ported designs are preferred. That doesn't mean sealed won't work. Not getting into sealed vs ported battle. But, for low volume listening, a bigger sub woofer driver has an advantage than 8 inchers. Again, the bass from sub depends significantly on your room and sub placement. For HT use, and all those gears you are planning to put together, i insist you go for a bigger powerful sub. You can always tune that to your taste if you are willing to invest sometime integrating the sub to the rest of the components. I remember, they mentioned BIC PL200II is sold for ~45k.

Okay, I only see the BIC PL200 ii on sale at one place (amazon or proaudiohome) its for 53K both the places.

So, I have only heard of the SunFire 12

below are my choices:

SunFire SDS-8 - 47,000
BIC PL200ii - 53,000 [if I can get her at 45, I'll be happy]
EarthQuake - 40,000 [not sure on the model # but I guess it's FF10]

My objective with this sub : a good tight base that doesn't rattle my neighbors up. I do understand I have to have a good insulation which I don't have, but gotta work with what I got, will it work if I keep the volume settings lower?

I think this hobby rewards patience unless you have an unlimited budget. We have all been in a similar boat at some point of time.

You can start with a goof L+R and an AVR and a sub for now, then add centre and then add surrounds and a possible second sub. In a rented place surrounds would be difficult to manage as you will need to drill to hold them IMHO.

I started with a custom speaker and stereo amp, moved to an AVR then a centre speaker and then a 5.1 with a pre-pro.

I do have time, little short on money at the moment, but anyways, I'm planning for an optimum setup & I do believe I can save up & have some good time.

I’d further speculate that even with unlimited budget one would need patience to feel rewarded. One has to really get involved in synergisation of the system components and also the listening room. Theoretically one could pay experts to do that too. But you’d miss on the biggest rewards of this hobby - engagement and learning.

I'm here for the engagement & learning, I love drilling & doing DIY stuff, so I'm sure this will work out for me. I can proudly show off to folks visiting that I've done all these by myself.. I love it when they see something in my home that I did myself & they are like, "YOU DID THIS?? "

 

[raghupb]

All the auditions I've taken are with LCR having same brand/family. and your research only confirms what I've been thinking myself. LCR must be he same brand/family. any mix & match, the rythm goes for a toss. The big question is which one should I go for?

- Q Acoustics Concept 20 & Q Acoustics Concept Center [67,000] - bookshelf set.
- Heco Victa Prime 702 & 102 Center [60,900] - These are tower set.
- Polk S30 & S50 - [72500] - Again, tower set.

I'm looking mainly at the bookshelf type instead of tower for better mid, high & soundstage since I'm going for a sub to do all the low frequency work for me.

It is good if you can buy LCR at the same time.
Many of our rigs grow over time. There is no guarantee that they will remain the same forever.
The whole timbre match concept is not so much of an issue in reality.
A tweak here and there will make your movie experience cohesive.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Yogesh]

All the auditions I've taken are with LCR having same brand/family. and your research only confirms what I've been thinking myself. LCR must be he same brand/family. any mix & match, the rythm goes for a toss. The big question is which one should I go for?

- Q Acoustics Concept 20 & Q Acoustics Concept Center [67,000] - bookshelf set.
- Heco Victa Prime 702 & 102 Center [60,900] - These are tower set.
- Polk S30 & S50 - [72500] - Again, tower set.

I'm looking mainly at the bookshelf type instead of tower for better mid, high & soundstage since I'm going for a sub to do all the low frequency work for me. Suggestions welcome.

As you are more inclined towards BS, you may go for QA. Also check out QA sub as well.

 

[thetourer]

Q1) has anyone heard or experienced Heco Victa Primes? I'm not able to find much information about them, but when I heard them, they sounded very very good. not too good in imaging or depth but it was okay. I felt the Q Acoustics 3050i have better depth (price difference shows I guess) but the thing is that I heard the 3050i with a mid whereas the Victas were without a mid.
Q2) does having a mid give better depth to the audio?

EDIT : after seeing a lot of reviews, here's my two builds:

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	Sunfire SDS-8	47000​
Mid	Q Acoustics Concept Centre	27000​
L & R	Q Acoustics Concept 20	40000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		181600​

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	Sunfire SDS-8	47000​
Mid	Elac Debut B6.2	33000​
L & R	Elac Debut C6.2	32000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		179600​

Notes:

Surrounds - I just put JBL there, looking for suggestions still. Preferably wall mountable ones.
Base - I'm putting the SunFire on the basis of my aural decision of the SDS-12, I know its not fair but folks here recommending the BIC America (5 Years warranty!!!) wants me to take a look at that as well. Also, they're similarly priced.

Is there any way I can fine-tune them?

 

[thetourer]

@fLUX I saw in another thread that you got the concept 20s, you think the soundstage is good? I also see you got the 3090Ci, any idea how is it vs the Concept center? would the CC give a better soundstage? I'm looking at a balance between mixed music (some country, some rock, some pop, some elctro) & movies (mostly action & thrillers). need your opinion here.

 

[sud98]

Q1) has anyone heard or experienced Heco Victa Primes? I'm not able to find much information about them, but when I heard them, they sounded very very good. not too good in imaging or depth but it was okay. I felt the Q Acoustics 3050i have better depth (price difference shows I guess) but the thing is that I heard the 3050i with a mid whereas the Victas were without a mid.
Q2) does having a mid give better depth to the audio?

EDIT : after seeing a lot of reviews, here's my two builds:

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	Sunfire SDS-8	47000​
Mid	Q Acoustics Concept Centre	27000​
L & R	Q Acoustics Concept 20	40000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		181600​

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	Sunfire SDS-8	47000​
Mid	Elac Debut B6.2	33000​
L & R	Elac Debut C6.2	32000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		179600​

Notes:

Surrounds - I just put JBL there, looking for suggestions still. Preferably wall mountable ones.

I have heard the Heco ages back and they were good, but in that price range like the Dali's better. I would rate the Dali's higher than Qacoustics too.

For the top surrounds wouldnt it be easier to buy a ceiling speakers than bookshelves as you will need a much sturdier mount for holding a bookshelf.

 

[Kirankj1724]

@thetourer I think one of the forum member recently purchased a BIC PL200 ii for 47k. This was from Jamsticks in Bangalore including shipping.
Try to talk to your local dealers, I'm sure you will get it for a good price.
And BTW, all the prices that you have been mentioning, are they online prices or from your local dealer?

 

[avtar2008]

I have BIC Americ PL200(not PL200 ii) and this a nice sub. I can feel clear diff in music when heard with and without it.

 

[thetourer]

I have BIC Americ PL200(not PL200 ii) and this a nice sub. I can feel clear diff in music when heard with and without it.

alright then, I'll take a peek at it locally.

@thetourer I think one of the forum member recently purchased a BIC PL200 ii for 47k. This was from Jamsticks in Bangalore including shipping.
Try to talk to your local dealers, I'm sure you will get it for a good price.
And BTW, all the prices that you have been mentioning, are they online prices or from your local dealer?

the prices are a mix, I've mentioned the dealer's names in the first page. for others, I've picked up the generous online prices.

I have heard the Heco ages back and they were good, but in that price range like the Dali's better. I would rate the Dali's higher than Qacoustics too.

For the top surrounds wouldnt it be easier to buy a ceiling speakers than bookshelves as you will need a much sturdier mount for holding a bookshelf.

okay, I'll try to check if I can get Dail's locally.


Are you referring to any particular model? They seem slightly expensive.

I can't make a hole in the ceiling. I guess I didn't clearly mention in the first post, this is a rented place, the owner isn't going to be happy about drilling the ceiling, he already did some false ceiling and all, don't want to touch it, too much work, besides its not my own home & I don't plan on staying for too long.

 

[NadirT]

Okay, I only see the BIC PL200 ii on sale at one place (amazon or proaudiohome) its for 53K both the places.

Jamsticks is selling BIC Pl200 ii for ₹47990. A fellow member has bought it for 44k few months back from Jamsticks, although it was a major price drop then. You can always call them and negotiate.

 

[fLUX]

@fLUX I saw in another thread that you got the concept 20s, you think the soundstage is good? I also see you got the 3090Ci, any idea how is it vs the Concept center? would the CC give a better soundstage? I'm looking at a balance between mixed music (some country, some rock, some pop, some elctro) & movies (mostly action & thrillers). need your opinion here.

The Concept 20's do have a really good soundstage, i had upgraded from Polk TL1600 + Yamaha AVR setup to this one and found it to be a big step up in terms of the soundstage and the engagement. The 3090ci is a very good center and does go well with the Concept 20 but i feel it to be a little recessed in terms of the presentation and the concept center might be a better option. Never heard the Concept center till date.

@DB1989 Has the concept center , he might be able to help you out there

 

[thetourer]

The Concept 20's do have a really good soundstage, i had upgraded from Polk TL1600 + Yamaha AVR setup to this one and found it to be a big step up in terms of the soundstage and the engagement. The 3090ci is a very good center and does go well with the Concept 20 but i feel it to be a little recessed in terms of the presentation and the concept center might be a better option. Never heard the Concept center till date.

@DB1989 Has the concept center , he might be able to help you out there

Jamsticks is selling BIC Pl200 ii for ₹47990. A fellow member has bought it for 44k few months back from Jamsticks, although it was a major price drop then. You can always call them and negotiate.

they're Bengaluru based... thanks..

so right now considering I haven't heard the Dali/BIC America, but still taking it as an input, I've got the below setups to choose from:

my audio taste : I love detailed soundstage, neutral, slightly warm, punchy tight accurate base, just as much as needed.

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Q Acoustics Concept Centre	27000​
L & R	Q Acoustics Concept 20	40000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		182590​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Elac Debut B6.2	33000​
L & R	Elac Debut C6.2	32000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		180590​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Dali Oberon Vokal	33000​
L & R	Dali Oberon 1	36900​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		185490​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Dali Oberon Vokal	33000​
L & R	Dali Oberon 3	54000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		202590​

 

[DB1989]

they're Bengaluru based... thanks..

so right now considering I haven't heard the Dali/BIC America, but still taking it as an input, I've got the below setups to choose from:

my audio taste : I love detailed soundstage, neutral, slightly warm, punchy tight accurate base, just as much as needed.

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Q Acoustics Concept Centre	27000​
L & R	Q Acoustics Concept 20	40000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		182590​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Elac Debut B6.2	33000​
L & R	Elac Debut C6.2	32000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		180590​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Dali Oberon Vokal	33000​
L & R	Dali Oberon 1	36900​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		185490​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Dali Oberon Vokal	33000​
L & R	Dali Oberon 3	54000​
Rear Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		202590​

If I may chip in with my two bits here, if you are looking to build a home theatre, the most important aspect to my mind is perfect synergy between the speakers which can only be achieved if they have the same timbral match. You are pretty much on the right track because you have selected the Front and Centre channels from the same manufacturer and series. For perfect synergy however, i would suggest at least getting the rear channels from the same manufacturer as well. I have a system with a mush mash of speakers connected to a Marantz SR 6013 and while the speakers i've employed are all great to my ears (Front LR - either a Quad S5 or Wharfedale Evo.4.2 depending on which is connected for stereo purposes, Centre - QA Concept Centre, Side LR - Kef Q350, Rear LR - Boston Acoustics A26, Sub - REL T9i, Top Surround - Onkyo SKH410), they are not a perfect timbral match and a matched speaker set (i auditioned the Q acoustics 3000 lineup) sounded better for movies. Here is my pick for the setup with the same AV receiver you picked.

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600
Sub	Q Acoustics QB12	47000
Mid	Q Acoustics 3090Ci	16000
L & R	Q Acoustics 3030i	34000
Rear Surround	Q Acoustics 3010i	16000
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000
Total		170,600

So the system total is the lowest but there are a great sounding pair. In fact, you can swap out the 3030is (which are no slouch) for the 3050is for an extra 24K if you want even more dynamic sound and slam with your movie and it'll still be below 2L. Furthermore, if you haven't heard the QB12 yet, i'd advise you to rush out to your neaarest dealer and audition it immediately. It is a beast of a subwoofer with deep but extremely well controlled bass (since it is a sealed sub and QA knows how to make great budget systems) and it doesnt fart while going low unlike some other subwoofers which go louder but are unruly. To my ears, it sounded better than an XTZ 10.17 and comparable to a 12.17 in a side by side comparison (only the XTZ 1x12 sounded better to my ears - no disrespect to XTZ owners which is why the caveat was included). However, the comparison may not be fair as the QA QB12 sounds closer to the SVS SB2000 than the XTZ subs in its tonality and bass reproduction (which is by no means a bad thing and depends on your subjective preference).

 

[DB1989]

The Concept 20's do have a really good soundstage, i had upgraded from Polk TL1600 + Yamaha AVR setup to this one and found it to be a big step up in terms of the soundstage and the engagement. The 3090ci is a very good center and does go well with the Concept 20 but i feel it to be a little recessed in terms of the presentation and the concept center might be a better option. Never heard the Concept center till date.

@DB1989 Has the concept center , he might be able to help you out there

You are spot on with your assessment even if you haven't heard the concept centre. I consider the concept series to be slightly brighter than the 3000i lineup which helps with detail retrieval i.e. it makes certain elements standout because of the brighter tonality but it also translates into a more nasal presentation through the concept centre if your front LRs are not the concept 20 or a less than ideal pairing. I experienced this on the dealer floor when he paired the Concept Centre with the 3050is. They sounded sharper but not necesserily a better experience because they just sounded odd with the 3050is. To my ears, the 3000i series are more rounded throughout the frequency range with a warmer sound signature compared to the Concept series which have a very distinct sound signature of their own that leans towards an emphasis on the higher frequencies.

 

[thetourer]

Thanks @DB1989

I'm now stuck between the below three configurations, any suggestions for subs & surrounds for the 3rd config? Would I require to beef up my AVR for the Dali's? I haven't heard the Dali's but the review on whathifi says its better than the 3050i:

the reason is that I feel the surrounds are too expensive for Dali's. But I plan on keeping these speakers for a long time to come, not short term stuff. some 40-50% music & some 50-60% visual stuff. Considering the fact that surrounds are sparingly used, I'm not really inclined to put my ₹₹₹ into the expensive surrounds. I planned a setup with the 1st as my main, but again, stuck as what do I use for the surrounds. Opinions?

I haven't heard the Dali's yet, and I doubt I'll get an audition. but will the higher price be worth it? I'll only consider it if its worth it a that price point, else, I'll keep to the QA.

with every inch increase in price, there's always a better model, this is ever ending quest & suddenly the speakers I saw initially seem like pittance. no wonder I see folks spending more and more, this is like an addiction.

Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	Q Acoustics QB12	47000​
Mid	Q Acoustics 3090Ci	16000​
L & R	Q Acoustics 3030i	34000​
Rear Surround	Q Acoustics 3010i	16000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		170600​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	Q Acoustics QB12	47000​
Mid	Q Acoustics 3090Ci	16000​
L & R	Q Acoustics 3050i	65000​
Rear Surround	Q Acoustics 3010i	16000​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		201600​
Component	Model	Amount
AV Receiver	Yamaha - 585	47600​
Sub	BIC America PL200 ii	47990​
Mid	Oberon Vokal	33000​
L & R	Oberon 5	75900​
Rear Surround	Dali Oberon 1	36900​
Top Surround	JBL Control 1 Pro	10000​
Total		251390​