Sony Bravia KDL EX650 Vs Samsung UA40ES56

[adder]

IPS has better viewing angles, (generally) better color accuracy and little color shift. PVA has better blacks, but shows color shifts at off-angles (not as bad as TN, though). IPS panels are more expensive.

The advantage touted for PVA (better blacks/contrast) is kind of moot when you consider it is only better in one central area of the screen and the color shift will reduce in other areas of the screen. Handy for a producing high numbers with a sensor that only looks at a tiny spot perfectly perpendicular. Not so hot for people who see the whole screen.

The biggest downside to IPS is the price, they are the most expensive panels.

So manufacturers selling PVA panels at the same cost of IPS panels are rip-off

IPS panels are dirt cheap they don't cost much,digitimes reported back in 09 or 08 that LG panels where cheaper in 40"/42" size categogary and the most expensive was AU optronics AMVA panel.
Sony uses IPS panels for their cheapest edge LED-lcd tv.

And even IPS panels have contrast shift at off axis,its only in the color shift that they are better at off axis.

 

[shanmune]

Guys, common let's not argue. We are all dumb and don't know a thing about Picture Quality.

We should follow what Sir Longshanks says (the most knowledgeable TV reviewer in the world)

Sony TV's are the worst in PQ. All the major tech sites are idiots that is why they rate Sony TVs higher than others among LCD TVs.

So everyone, please buy Samsung or LG IPS Tvs only and enjoy the ultra realistic colors and deep blacks

And IPS panel TVs are indeed the best, that is why there is no single IPS panel equipped TVs in the list of best LCD TVs ever made

All hail the master, mister know it all - Sir longshanks

Whenever there is a post that says Sony is better, Sir longshanks will come and prove the poster wrong. (Though don't worry you can say Samsung/LG is better and longshanks will love it)

Please don't be sarcastic. Let longshanks put his points and I see others as well replying to him with very valid points. Finally it is the individual who will decide even after looking at all these points and I don't think anyone will be misled. As I mentioned before, if you see a point factually wrong, please put your points. I am really feeling good with a very good debate going on and I personally don't see anything wrong (unlike the previous posts posted before by longshanks). Let's continue the debate in a positive manner. I guess I am becoming a moderator now :lol:

 

[etios]

Hi Friends i am planning to buy a TV among these two models .............please suggest me the best TV among

Sony Bravia KDL-40EX650 : Sony BRAVIA 40 inches Full HD LED KDL-40EX650 Television | Television | Flipkart.com
and
Samsung UA40ES56R : Samsung 40ES5600 LED 40 inches Full HD Television | Television | Flipkart.com


From the research that i had done SONY has very good picture quality

But in which TV audio quality will be good??

More over with Samsung TV we are getting wifi dongle and skype camera along with the TV with just 2000 rupees more than Sony model

Please some one help me out......... so confused

nandik, 40ex650 is a better tv than 40es5600 in picture quality department, so just do a demo once and buy it

 

[longshanks]

i am going to ignore most of what avmaxfan has posted because it makes so sense in any meaningful way as usual.

The same value electrics dissed the Sony XBR8 a mediocre television and it used a VA based panel with local dimming.

High quality IPS panels(AH-IPS,H-IPS,P-IPS,IPS-Pro) are very expensive compared any grade1 SPVA panel, there are also cheaper IPS panels(E-IPS) available which are mostly used in lower range LCD's by Hitachi, Panasonic ,Sony and LG.LG is not the only brand making IPS panels. Infact the panels used in professional displays are many times more expensive than any other SPVA or any kind of panel.

It is a general understand buy all AV enthusiasts that IPS has better viewing angle,color and brightness but SPVA has better contract and blacks but contrast and blacks are not the parameters required for great picture. Infact plasma does all this better than both but in a dim lit or dark environment.

Why is IPS the Preferred Choice of Panel?

S-IPS ??? S-PVA ??????? - ??? ??? ?? ??????? ? ??? ?? ?? ????????? | ?????? ?? ??????? ?????????? ???????

IPS Vs VA Panel

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm

http://youtu.be/CHoqax9-R3o

As for the OP demo both ex650 and es5600 and buy which ever you prefer, simply saying EX650 is better or es5600 is better without any proper measurement of side by side comparison does not help anyone.

 

[adder]

XBR8 was never tested by value electronics shootout and reason being Sony didn't bring them one.As far as the other points my earlier post still holds.
And value electronics is just a store and robert is the owner.But the calibirators are Keven miller & D-nice they were the ones who said contrast comes first.

 

[longshanks]

Yep,it was the XBR9 i thought it should be one out of the two but looks like it was indeed the XBR9, XBR9 uses a VA based panel every word i spoke of the panel technologies still holds true.

http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/96580-high-end-hdtv-shoot-out-event.html

This was the final rating.

Final scores:

Pioneer Plasma- 9.5
Samsung Plasma- 8.1
Panasonic Plasma -7.9
Toshiba LCD- 7.4
LG Plasma -7.2
Samsung LCD- 7.1
LG LCD -7.1
Sony LCD(XBR9)- 6.2
2009 HDTV Shootout - Kevin Miller Presentation Part 6 - YouTube

 

[aks316]

Hi can anybody tell me when is Sony HX950 going to be launched? I am planning to buy 1 Sony HX850 55inch, 1 Panasonic GT50 50inch and 1 Sony HX850 46inch. I want to wait for Sony HX950 but there is no exact date of the launch.

 

[lake1988]

So finally according to Sony haters-
1.SPVA panels are crap and less costly still samsung uses this panel.

2.Only color accuracy and good viewing angle are enough for good pic quality.

3.Better blacks and high contrast ratio don't have anything to do with good pic quality.

4.As plasma can give better blacks and contrast ratio so we should stick to plasma though OP has asked to choose between two LED on basis of only audio quality..though according to OP sony got better pic quality.

5.So buy a superior high price IPS tv..sit at 180 degree angle and see washed out picture cause with that black and low contrast ratio even sitting at 0 degree won't help getting good picture.

As per Sony haters' favorite website television info most of sony tvs got better blacks and better pick white which ultimately end up getting higher contrast ratio.
Where they set a permissible black level of 0.20 cd/m^2 and majority of IPS panel blacks are over 0.20..sometimes 0.38..
Sony was able to produce 0.04-.05 when some top plasmas were between .01-.03.

While most of members here are looking for best blacks..all of a sudden black level is not important to get good pic quality...is it cause sony almost able to match blacks of plasmas..somehow blacks are out of equation.
Without high contrast ratio..even it got better color accuracy won't help showing good picture quality...end up showing washed out pic...
Even by superior video processing and calibration accurate color can be achieve..but displaying deep blacks and contrast ratio is inherent to panel only..no video processor can process and show deep blacks in a panel which is unable to display deep blacks.

Now some of review site started giving review based on how good the tv looks like with no bezel and all that...now people will see only the design of the tv not pic quality, cause to show off to others is important than having good pic quality..

Thank god CNET doesn't post review on basis that how good the tv looks.

 

[mbhangui]

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm

The best monitors continue to use IPS panels. Even Apple Cinema displays use IPS panels. Especially in photography, where seeing the true colour is so important, you will have to use an IPS panels. PVA panels are much cheaper than IPS panel (at the cost of colour reproduction). The PVA technology is often dismissed for colour critical work as a result.

The problem with Sony and many other tv manufacturers (unlike LG, Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic, Sharp) is that they do not even have the capability to manufacture there own panels. They end up buying their panels from Koreans.


As far as LCD panels are concerned these are the few manufacturers who are behind the actual TVs that we buy.

LG Display: TN, IPS, S-IPS, SA-IPS, H-IPS --- Samsung, LGE, Philips, Vizo, Panasonic, Toshiba, Hitachi, AmTRAN and Skyworth

Sharp Japan: ASV (variant of VA) --- Toshiba, Philips, Sony, Pioneer (LCD) and Sharp

Chi Mei Optoelectronics: TN, S-MVA and LCS MVA --- Samsung, Philips, Funai, LGE, Toshiba and Sony

AU Optronics: TN, P-MVA and A-MVA --- Sony, Samsung, Philips, LGE, Toshiba, Proview, Panasonic

Chunghwa Picture Tubes: TN and MVA variant --- Sony, Samsung and Konka

Samsung SDI: TN, PVA and S-PVA -- JVC, Samsung, Sony, Philips, Sanyo and Panasonic

Wistron Optronics: Unknown --- Sony

IPS Alpha Technology (Hitachi-Matsushita): IPS Pro --- Hitachi and Panasonic

Panasonic: Pioneer and Panasonic

Delta Electronics: Unknown

TPV Technology Limited: Unknown

Meanwhile Japanese tv manufacturers continue to lose out to the Koreans. All this will have a big impact on the ability of these companies to invest in new technologies.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/400550/20121101/japan-downfall-sony-panasonic-sharp-lose-out.htm
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ese-electronic-giants-face-gloomy-future.html

As far as OLED panels are concerned, Sonly is going to tie up with Panasonic to manufacture OLED panels.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18576484

Panasonic manufacturers its own plasma panels at its Amagasaki plant. It will however sell its LCD panel plant to Japan Display and will also cut down production of its plasma panels. Like Sony, Panasonic is also in the red. Panasonic will also bring in more LCD panels from external suppliers to make up for the shortfall.

http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-panasonic-reduce-production-lcd-and-plasma-display-panels

 

[lake1988]

So start buying monitors then..it's a tv thread not monitors thread..irrelevant to our point of discussion.

 

[avmaxfan]

mbhangui ,

When I read the first line of your post where you said Apple cinema display is the best display, I stopped reading. Also why talking monitors here ? This is a TV forum.

 

[mbhangui]

TN Film, MVA, PVA and IPS - Panel Technologies

The best monitors continue to use IPS panels. Even Apple Cinema displays use IPS panels. Especially in photography, where seeing the true colour is so important, you will have to use an IPS panels. PVA panels are much cheaper than IPS panel (at the cost of colour reproduction). The PVA technology is often dismissed for colour critical work as a result.

We are talking about panels - the heart of any tv or any monitor. I never said that Apple Cinema display is the best display and what I have quoted is above. They use LG display which are considered to be among the best. The post was about IPS, TN, VA panels in reply to other post which said that VA panels are superior (which is not the fact).

LG and Samsung are among the best panel manufacturers today. There is nothing you, me or Japan can do about it. And indian11 made the right decision of going with LG a tv manufacturer who make the best panels (the heart of any tv or monitor). Instead of congratulating him, there were attempts to show how inferior LG is to Sony. It is a different world out there today. Since the demise of CRT, most TV manufacturers who were the ruling 20 years back, now don't even have the ability to produce the heart of a tv - the panel. Instead they buy these panels from LG and Samsung and hence loose the ability to control technology and provide the best price point to the buyer.

Let the end user decide which tv he found the best. I have myself seen LG and I too liked it even though I am a Panny fan.

EDIT: Even in OLED (which most claim will be superior even to Plasma), LG is the leader. It is only now that Sony and Panasonic are getting together to jointly manufacture OLED.
http://www.lg.com/us/oled/index.jsp

"Winning best of show at CES2012 is more than an honour. It's pure inspiraton". Only one product can win Best of Show, and we couldn't be prouder that CNET awarded its top prize to the LG 55" class (54.6" diagonal) OLED Cinema 3D TV. --- LG

 

[avmaxfan]

^

So IPS is the best panel, right ? Alryt, do me a favor and post here a review of a TV with IPS panel that got 5/5 or 10/10 PQ/performance rating on ANY site. TV, not monitor. TV and monitor are not one and the same

Again, I have no intention of bashing LG. I have already mentioned repeatedly that LG made some of the best LCD Tvs ever in history and all of those sets featured VA panels. No LG IPS TV can even come close to the LG VA sets.

And please, don't comment when you know little about the topic. Panasonic may be new to OLED, but Sony is one of the biggest names in OLED development, Sony XEL-1 was the first OLED TV in the world and Sony has been using OLED much before LG. Sony's line of Trimaster EL OLED professional monitors are reference grade monitors used by movie/TV production houses. And currently, it is Samsung who is the global leader in OLED technology. LG has a lot of catchup to do. Only making a 55 inch OLED TV doesn't make them a leader. LG is mostly pushing its IPS LCD. Even in phones they push IPS LCD over OLED (not saying that it is a bad thing) There are hardly any other products from LG using OLED other than their yet to launch TV and the OLED TV they launched a few years back.

Samsung has OLED phones, tablets, TV, camera screens etc. Sony has OLED professional monitors, world first OLED TV, OLED 3D personal viewer, phones, camera screens, walkman portable media player, PDA,smart watches, and upcoming 55+ inch OLED sets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED

See the list in OLED wiki page of Samsung,Sony, LG OLED applications.

Samsung has more than 95% share of Global OLED market today. So I don't see how you can claim LG is leader.

 

[mbhangui]

^

So IPS is the best panel, right ? Alryt, do me a favor and post here a review of a TV with IPS panel that got 5/5 or 10/10 PQ/performance rating on ANY site. TV, not monitor. .

Sure I did, The top is still an IPS panel (CNET best LCD)

1) Vizio 55" M3D550SL - IPS panel
2) Sony HX-850 - VA (FQLR550LT0101 from Samsung)
3) Sharp elite Pro X5FD - UVA

 

[longshanks]

mbhangui ,
When I read the first line of your post where you said Apple cinema display is the best display, I stopped reading. Also why talking monitors here ? This is a TV forum.

There is a small correction here, we are not a TV forum we are a Audio Video Home Theatre & HiFi Forum.

In fact i joined here to discuss audio until i saw these kind of threads happening.

Apple Cinema display is indeed one of the best displays around and who says one cannot watch television or a movie on an apple cinema display? they don't call it cinema display for no reason.

^

So IPS is the best panel, right ? Alryt, do me a favor and post here a review of a TV with IPS panel that got 5/5 or 10/10 PQ/performance rating on ANY site. but

Before and after calibration my measurement equipment gave me a black level of 0.00 cd/m2. This suggests that black levels on LX9500 are perfect or very close to perfect but it's also the limitation of our measuring equipment.

Absolute black is also more or less perfect on LX9500. In a completely dark room you cannot see any light getting through from the panel when the LED local dimming system is activated. This is very positive and LX9500 deserves praise for a well-designed local dimming system

LG LX9500 (3DTV) review - FlatpanelsHD



LE8500 has magnificent black levels without doubt. This is also visible in practice and contributes to new dimension of depth in the picture. Even during daytime black levels are very good in spite of the very reflective glass front.

But deep black reproduction is not worth much if shadow detailing is poor. Luckily this is not the case with LE8500 and most of the time I see quite good shadow detailing. The problem with LED local dimming systems is the shadow detailing varies according to the picture content.

LG LE8500 review - FlatpanelsHD



LG Infinia 55LX9500 Review - Watch CNET's Video Review

Sony is one of the biggest names in OLED

Sony is not the biggest name in OLED it is Samsung,LG and another Chinese company. Sony did introduce products based on OLED(as usual super high priced) very early as 2007 and most of then were failures.Most of OLED research were not conducted by these companies but by other research institutes, some of these companies funded them and some have now bought this research either by full out right purchase or through joint ventures.

In fact Sony only now has come up with a plan for manufacturing mainstream OLED panel in large numbers for the masses with a joint venture with Panasonic.

OLED history

 

[mbhangui]

OLED history

Couldn't help laughing. Looks like lot of stealing happens in this technology

LG Display suspected of OLED technology theft from Samsung Mobile Display

 

[longshanks]

Sure it it did, in fact samsung accused LG and another Chinese company for stealing research papers related to OLED from them. Also i must admit Samsung has invested a lot in OLED research,i guess around 10 billion dollars.

 

[mbhangui]

Just a question. When I search for good HDTV, I keep on stumbling on posts by people that nothing comes close to Pioneer Kuro. In fact people get heart broken when their Kuro dies (as this product has been discontinued).

Which TV in 2012 comes closed to Kuro in terms of quality and die-hard fans?

 

[longshanks]

No TV comes close to sheer HD picture quality of a kuro even in 2012 is my humble opinion, i am yet to see a TV which can impress me as much as the kuro did in displaying HD content.It displays HD so well that i even watched certain movies i don't even like just to experience the picture quality what it offered

In 2012 the best televisions which can display better SD than even the kuro and can display excellent HD(but not as good as the kuro) would be : Samsung E6500,7000,8000 and Panasonic ST50,GT50 and VT50 plasma's. Choosing between these just depends on your personal preference as each have their own advantages and disadvantages.

 

[rangan]

Many are competing to fill that place. After going through various forums, here are some of the points that I am aware.
- This what D Nice says - Kuro and VT50 are almost identical even in darker scenes. In extremely dark scenes, there is only a slight difference in the black level with kuro being better, In terms of colour depth and cleaner picture, VT50 is better.

- Chad B says HX929 is Kuro-eseque when it comes to black level

- From other reputed review sites, Sharp Elite is on par with Kuro in terms of black levels, but not on the overall PQ.

- As per Chad B, Samsung Plasma offer more movie like experience even if their black levels are not the same as Kuro. The most under estimated set here.

Finally - Kuro is not untouchable. And the most important - Nothing is absolutely superior as shanmune always says.