Soundcard performance

[moserw]

Yes,its MSI-945GCM5-V2(same config as you said). C2D4500, 2GB ram, VIP gold 400w SMPS.

Then its PCI-Express and not PCI-X which was an extension for the original PCI, but not in use anymore and of course now replaced by PCI-Express. You are good to go with any card from the Xonar range depending on your requirement. My vote though goes for the Asus Xonar Essence STX...

 

[thevortex]

Then its PCI-Express and not PCI-X which was an extension for the original PCI, but not in use anymore and of course now replaced by PCI-Express. You are good to go with any card from the Xonar range depending on your requirement. My vote though goes for the Asus Xonar Essence STX...

I wonder if somebody here has heard both the Xonar D2X and the Essence STX. I would love to know how much difference there is between these two cards.

Anybody has any idea?

 

[spirovious]

Then its PCI-Express and not PCI-X which was an extension for the original PCI, but not in use anymore and of course now replaced by PCI-Express. You are good to go with any card from the Xonar range depending on your requirement. My vote though goes for the Asus Xonar Essence STX...

There is no Xonar Essence STX on web.
ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

http://www.pcplanetsystems.com/abc/images/big/GCM5+E2140_LG.gif

View attachment 602

see bottom of SC-
View attachment 603

powersupply-
View attachment 604

 

[thevortex]

The floppy drive connector does not carry the -12V line either, actually. In my review of the Xonar Dx, I found the +12V line (which is coming from the same power supply and is essentially referenced to the same ground line, ergo, no extra voltage) was only supplying power to the bridge chip. The Xonar is built on the C-media controller, which essentially is a PCI chip and a bridge chip is required. The aux power connector on the cards are used by that bridge chip. The PCI version does not need it as there is no bridge chip on those cards anyway.

The PCI-Express cards don't have a -12V connection at all. Which is also why apart from RME, no professional interfaces have a PCI-E version yet, inspite of the format having been there for > three years now. It is not possible to get good performance out of analog circuitry from a single +12V line. digital-only cards or cards that use a breakout connector (most of the RME are such) to an external box, yes, but standalone cards are tough to implement without the negative line IME.

Whoa, Cranky, that was a mouthful. Or an eyeful. Anyway can you tell me this? Does the implementation itself (of PCI-Express) architecture imply something in terms of the quality of sound production? That it needs that additional bridge power - does that limit the card in some way?

Yes, PCI cards dont need that additional power supply. I did not see much difference there as there are no floppy drives being used in today's time. I just want to understand if there is some difference in sound quality or production thereof simply based on whether it is based on the PCI or PCI-E platform.

 

[moserw]

There is no Xonar Essence STX on web.
ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

There is on the U.S./International Website, not on the Indian one though.

ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

 

[prashant_dv]

but How does vid pass through HDMI of soundcard(SC)?
bcos I have graphiccard(GC) with S vid,DVI out.

Hi Spirovious,

I assume you are referring to the Audio output of video files played on your PC??

There are two ways :

a) you can connect the SPDIF/Optical out if you have one to your AVR.
b) If your Graphics card supports an Audio IN and your sound card has a separate output on the board itself and not the external connectors meant for this purpose, then it can be used to send audio over the HDMI to your LCD/Plasma.

Is the graphics card on-board or a separate one ? Which make ?? If separate, then it should have the S-Vid and DVI-HDMI adapters supplied by default. I got both the S-Vid --> Component and DVI --> HDMI adapter. The S-Vid to Component works beautifully well with my Sony CRT, and i will test the DVI--> HDMI once i get my LCD.

Now, if the graphics card did not come with the adapters you could get them separately. I recollect one of my friends got a DVI-HDMI adapter for ~~ 450-500 INR/- and then get a decent HDMI cable for connecting your HD TV.

you could also check out for some product like this one : Monster 400 for HDMI: HDMI to DVI Video Cable -2m: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo


And this is what i currently use to connect my PC to the TV : Component to s-video adapter cable: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

since this cable is very short, i got a 5M Component cable to connect my TV/PC. The card that i use is : NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT . This has an SPDIF in on-board the disp card and can be connected internally to your sound card if there is an SPDIF out on your soundcard (internal jumper type pins). I dont use this since i dont use HDMI at this moment and moreover my audio card (M-Audio Audiophile 2496) does not have the spdif on-board.

cheers
Prashant

PS: Sorry if i put more info or confused you..!

 

[thevortex]

No, not really. The only limitation is the one I described, due to single-supply operation of the analog stage, or the negative voltages having to be generated on the board itself.

The architecture is not friendly to analog audio, but it was not designed with that in mind.

I am trying to simplify my posts. I understand that I may be losing readers, so I am skipping a lot of details. Don't want to obscure posts. Sorry if it is still an eyeful for you, I shall try and trim them further.

No, Cranky, please do keep up the tech talk. If I dont get it today I am sure I will get it tomorrow. Well some day after today at any rate

Hmm..it makes me think.. your point about analog audio. Currently the analog outs from my Xonar D2X beat my Marantz receiver hands down in audio quality. In fact I strongly believe that it would give many mid range CD players a scare. You are saying if the same card was built with PCI architecture in mind, the sound quality would have been even better?

What do you believe is the best card for audio quality which is still available in India? Also could you list some sound cards which are better than the Xonar series of cards? Again not with music production but with Hifi performance in mind?

 

[moserw]

No, Cranky, please do keep up the tech talk. If I dont get it today I am sure I will get it tomorrow. Well some day after today at any rate

Hmm..it makes me think.. your point about analog audio. Currently the analog outs from my Xonar D2X beat my Marantz receiver hands down in audio quality. In fact I strongly believe that it would give many mid range CD players a scare. You are saying if the same card was built with PCI architecture in mind, the sound quality would have been even better?

What do you believe is the best card for audio quality which is still available in India? Also could you list some sound cards which are better than the Xonar series of cards? Again not with music production but with Hifi performance in mind?

Looking forward to the answers myself. Especially the best soundcards for audio performance on the PC.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Sorry brothers. I wnat to ask slightly unrelated question.

I have ordered for Xonar DX card a few days ago. But yet to receive the same. Is it worth to upgrade my order from DX to Essence STX? I have Audioengine A5 speakers. Will Essence STX pair well with A5 speakers and deliver good soulful music?

Thanks guys
Amit

 

[moserw]

Sorry brothers. I wnat to ask slightly unrelated question.

I have ordered for Xonar DX card a few days ago. But yet to receive the same. Is it worth to upgrade my order from DX to Essence STX? I have Audioengine A5 speakers. Will Essence STX pair well with A5 speakers and deliver good soulful music?

Thanks guys
Amit

Both are different cards. DX is geared more towards games, movies and all round home entertainment and is 7.1, while the Essence STX is geared towards the audiophiles and is a 2.0 card. Would not recommend the Essence STX unless you are building a music PC and will not be using the PC for movies, home theater, games, etc. Go for the Essence STX if you are building a PC that will replace your CDP, music player, etc. and really want to concentrate on music leaving out all others, otherwise stick with the DX and mind you music will not be bad on the DX or the other Xonar range of cards.

 

[spirovious]

These are feature additions, not performance improvements.

If in a soundcard driver there is a marked improvement in performance, there was something wrong with the previous set. The driver for these cards should not impact sound quality as the actual conversion process is not dependent on the driver. There is no 'code', it's a hardware process. In onboard solutions this is different (slightly). I'm just restraining myself here so we can desist from derailing the thread with technical information once again, so you'll just have to take my word for it. If you're keen on knowing more, we can do that on PM.

I agree,but what abt Display drivers?When we install newerone,we see improvement in performance.

 

[spirovious]

Hi Spirovious,

I assume you are referring to the Audio output of video files played on your PC??

There are two ways :

a) you can connect the SPDIF/Optical out if you have one to your AVR.
b) If your Graphics card supports an Audio IN and your sound card has a separate output on the board itself and not the external connectors meant for this purpose, then it can be used to send audio over the HDMI to your LCD/Plasma.

Thanks,I know that we can connect seperately aud to AVR & vid to HDTV.
But this soundcard it self can do both.How?

http://in.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25&l2=150&l3=0&l4=0&model=2385&modelmenu=1

 

[spirovious]

Both are different cards. DX is geared more towards games, movies and all round home entertainment and is 7.1, while the Essence STX is geared towards the audiophiles and is a 2.0 card. Would not recommend the Essence STX unless you are building a music PC and will not be using the PC for movies, home theater, games, etc. Go for the Essence STX if you are building a PC that will replace your CDP, music player, etc. and really want to concentrate on music leaving out all others, otherwise stick with the DX and mind you music will not be bad on the DX or the other Xonar range of cards.

If Essence STX is a 2.0 card,then it may not work on older MBs(1.1)
DACs used are same for highend AVRs.-
Yamaha RX-V663 vs Denon AVR-1909 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

check this-
ASUSTeK Computer Inc.

This card has 2 PBBs & shld be bridged,but I cant see provision for bridge like SLR.(2 PCI-E1X needed)

few othercards recommended -

bit-tech.net | Asus Xonar D2X - PCI-Express soundcard
bit-tech.net | Sondigo Inferno 7.1 PCI Soundcard

bit-tech.net Shopping | Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook Sound Card

 

[audiodelic]

Cranky correct me if im wrong.

The Asus HDAV1.3 i understand will also upconvert 480p to 1080p with its Splendid HD video processor ?

Is there a benchmark test link that i can look at, how good this card is in upconverting. Basically im trying to compare this players upconversion to say a PS3 and Oppo dv-983h.?

If this card is good at upconverting i can retire my 983h in the near future and go for an all in one htpc.

 

[moserw]

reignofchaos,

Have a couple of questions hope you don't mind answering. Want to know how you have connected the Asus Xonar Essence STX i.e. are you using PC/multimedia speakers, or passive speakers with an amp? Basically want to know your setup if you don't mind please...

 

[prashant_dv]

But this soundcard it self can do both.How?

Hi Spirovious,

The Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe does have HDMI ports inbuilt which (in my understanding) ideally means you wouldnt need a separate Display Card to meet your display requirements. You can find this in the "I/O ports" section of the specs page.This card has 1 HDMI IN and 1 HDMI out apart from the audio ports available. The HDMI IN port can be connected to a graphics card DVI out using the bundled DVI-TO -HDMI converter.

However the Manual of this card mentions that you need to connect the DVI out from any DVI capable card to the HDMI in as mentioned above. I am not too sure if this is the only way to get HDMI out from this card or if it can work standalone without any separate display cards.

The "Specifications" webpage of Asus mentions that this card is HDMI v1.3a compliant and HDCP 1.2 /DVI 1.0 compatible. further down the specs page, you can find the resolutions supported from 480i to 1080p.

 

[reignofchaos]

reignofchaos,

Have a couple of questions hope you don't mind answering. Want to know how you have connected the Asus Xonar Essence STX i.e. are you using PC/multimedia speakers, or passive speakers with an amp? Basically want to know your setup if you don't mind please...

I bought it to pair it with my bedroom setup - Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amp and Jamo E700 bookshelf speakers. I've tested it with my main setup as well which is an usher be-718, lyrita pre, mccormack dna power and it performs better than any sound card i've experienced so far which is a long list - creative xfi, m-audio audiophile usb, emu 0404, emu 1212m, xfi usb and a burr brown pcm2902 based usb dac.

It does get beaten by my primary source - An Audiozone DAC-1 non oversampling dac but its close especially considering that the price of the DAC is five times the cost of the xonar.

 

[reignofchaos]

Cranky correct me if im wrong.

The Asus HDAV1.3 i understand will also upconvert 480p to 1080p with its Splendid HD video processor ?

Is there a benchmark test link that i can look at, how good this card is in upconverting. Basically im trying to compare this players upconversion to say a PS3 and Oppo dv-983h.?

If this card is good at upconverting i can retire my 983h in the near future and go for an all in one htpc.

You are far better off letting a dx10 gen video card handle up conversion. Most of them can do bicubic interpolation using shader hardware which is as good as it gets - perfect scores in HQV.

 

[spirovious]

Any amplifier (even an opamp qualifies) basically swings an output voltage, using the power supply. The higher the voltage the more the swign available. When amps run off higher voltages, distortion decreases across the board.

Basically, with a PCI card, you can get +/-12V (so, 24V) from the connector itself. Try hard as you can, this is not possible on PCI-E.

This does not mean that all cards implement it! The SB-Live! (which is the last consumer card I ever bought) was PCI, but used 5V for the opamps. I'm not kidding. I had to hard mod mine and use at least +12V. The card did not allow me to tap the -12V line as they didn't have the finger for that voltage, or I would have used that. I don't know much about consumer cards, TBH, so won't comment.

As to best cards, I'll be talking about the absolute best, and we'll ignore the availability and price for a moment.

What I learn is PCI(regular)cards are better for noice ruduction or produce less distortion,but PCI-E can transform data faster than regularone.

Now Q arises whether to go for SQ or performance?
For bluray,you need fast performer,for CDplaying PCI(reg) card is best.

So what will you peak if you want to?

 

[spirovious]

Hi Spirovious,

The Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe does have HDMI ports inbuilt which (in my understanding) ideally means you wouldnt need a separate Display Card to meet your display requirements. You can find this in the "I/O ports" section of the specs page.This card has 1 HDMI IN and 1 HDMI out apart from the audio ports available. The HDMI IN port can be connected to a graphics card DVI out using the bundled DVI-TO -HDMI converter.

However the Manual of this card mentions that you need to connect the DVI out from any DVI capable card to the HDMI in as mentioned above. I am not too sure if this is the only way to get HDMI out from this card or if it can work standalone without any separate display cards.

The "Specifications" webpage of Asus mentions that this card is HDMI v1.3a compliant and HDCP 1.2 /DVI 1.0 compatible. further down the specs page, you can find the resolutions supported from 480i to 1080p.

Thanks, so this card works otherway,I meen earlier SC shld be looped to GC to get both aud,vid to get combined HDMI out as you said earlier.