Stereo Amp for Dali Lektor 2 speakers

[anm]

bhaskie,
if you are in Delhi, you may also try at JBL stores the HK 970/ 980 amps. They have a 990 model due some time soon (what hifi says due in april) that pumps 150watts but would cost 1000 pounds (in India it would be above 1lakh)
You may audition their stereo receivers - most expensive is 3490 @ 30 thousand inr, 120 wpc, and takes digital inputs - so if you use computer as a transport, you don't have to worry too much about a DAC.

regards

 

[bhaskie]

bhaskie,
if you are in Delhi, you may also try at JBL stores the HK 970/ 980 amps. They have a 990 model due some time soon (what hifi says due in april) that pumps 150watts but would cost 1000 pounds (in India it would be above 1lakh)
You may audition their stereo receivers - most expensive is 3490 @ 30 thousand inr, 120 wpc, and takes digital inputs - so if you use computer as a transport, you don't have to worry too much about a DAC.

regards

Yes I am in Delhi. And I did enquire about the HK receivers. The HK 3490 is pretty good but is ridiculously overpriced in India. It sells for 30k in India and for $300 (~15k) in US.

Amazon.com: Harman Kardon HK 3490 2 x 120W Stereo Receiver: Electronics

It's rated at 120W at 8 ohms compared to 100W for the Marantz PM7003.
I will be auditioning the HK receivers anyway since one of the dealers who has a Marantz PM7001 also sells HK amps/receivers. But I will surely NOT pay 30k for it! Maybe get it from US

Will update with the audition results next week!

 

[gobble]

Seems you got the sensitivity wrong with your speakers !

Wharfedale Diamond 9.2 Specification:
Power 20-100W
Nominal Impedance 6 ohm
Sensitivity 86dB

I have zeroed down to the Marantz PM 7003 for now. I will be auditioning it when the dealer has it in stock (hopefully in a week or two!).

Cheers!

I had no choice as there is no good speaker rated @40 - 50W in the market. The Tannoy F1s are worth INR 8000 only but they are sold in India for 16 - 17K !! At that price you can get 4 of the same speakers for a HT setup or its atleast half the price of a SUB to pair with them !! No point paying money for a value you never get.

Regards

 

[bhaskie]

I had no choice as there is no good speaker rated @40 - 50W in the market. The Tannoy F1s are worth INR 8000 only but they are sold in India for 16 - 17K !! At that price you can get 4 of the same speakers for a HT setup or its atleast half the price of a SUB to pair with them !! No point paying money for a value you never get.

Regards

Wrong mate! The Tannoy Mercury F1 is priced at 90 in UK and $120 in US (I just googled up the prices!) That's close to Rs. 6000

The same is the issue with Yamaha avrs, Harman Kardon, KEF speakers and a lot of others! Costlier in India.

OTOH Marantz amplifiers are at the same price (or lower!) as UK or US

When I asked the dealers, they explained that taxes, customs, shipping etc. is the culprit.

 

[gobble]

When I asked the dealers, they explained that taxes, customs, shipping etc. is the culprit.

No points for guessing who is the real culprit ..


Cheers

 

[bhaskie]

I only have experience with the 325bee and Wharfedale 9.2s , but here is what I recommend based on my observations.

For a 100W speaker @85db sensitivity get atleast a 100 per. ch. rms amp, preferably a 150W amp. Else the sound may not be fluid and liquid at very low volumes and the "oomph" factor may be missing. Sure a good 50W amp will sound musical with a 100W speaker, but I think it is better to pair with an amp that will totally enslave and drive the speakers for that authoritative sound effect at low to moderate volumes. If the speaker sensitivity were >90db then maybe a 100W speaker paired with 50W might give that sound but IMHO better to shop for a high power amp for these speakers.

Regards

Let me clarify this - these speakers are not 100W RMS Continuous power handling if that is what you mean by 100W speakers.

The recommended amplifier power is 25W - 100W. The continuous power is not given in the manual but based on the amp recommendations, I believe it should be around 50W RMS.

Anyway, based on calculations with:
distance from speakers = 2.5 metre (small room 10x10)
max sound level at 2.5mtr = 85 dB SPL
speaker sensitivity = 85dB
headroom for signal peaks = 12 dB

All I should require is 100W per channel of amplifier power!

 

[anm]

Actually after being ditched by 3-4 friends on getting stuff from the US, I have given up.
One - it is too heavy to carry. May cost extra $200 as excess baggage. If you have to pay customs, add another $100. And then you would need a 230 to 110 step down. And then, you do not know if the piece would be faulty, broken in the transaction.
At least for 3490 I think the price difference of 15k is not that high to go through the pain of getting it from the US. Plus 3490 also has digital inputs so you can connect your comp or not so expensive CD players. See if that guy can offer a discount. I can buy it too if he can give two for 25k each

How much would the marantz 7003 or 7001 cost? Edit - saw it in previous posts. 34/ 29k. Are you able to find a better deal than this?

regards

Yes I am in Delhi. And I did enquire about the HK receivers. The HK 3490 is pretty good but is ridiculously overpriced in India. It sells for 30k in India and for $300 (~15k) in US.

Amazon.com: Harman Kardon HK 3490 2 x 120W Stereo Receiver: Electronics

It's rated at 120W at 8 ohms compared to 100W for the Marantz PM7003.
I will be auditioning the HK receivers anyway since one of the dealers who has a Marantz PM7001 also sells HK amps/receivers. But I will surely NOT pay 30k for it! Maybe get it from US

Will update with the audition results next week!

 

[bhaskie]

Actually after being ditched by 3-4 friends on getting stuff from the US, I have given up.
One - it is too heavy to carry. May cost extra $200 as excess baggage. If you have to pay customs, add another $100. And then you would need a 230 to 110 step down. And then, you do not know if the piece would be faulty, broken in the transaction.
At least for 3490 I think the price difference of 15k is not that high to go through the pain of getting it from the US. Plus 3490 also has digital inputs so you can connect your comp or not so expensive CD players. See if that guy can offer a discount. I can buy it too if he can give two for 25k each

How much would the marantz 7003 or 7001 cost? Edit - saw it in previous posts. 34/ 29k. Are you able to find a better deal than this?

regards

The 3490 is just not worth 30k mate! I don't source anything from US if it requires a voltage converter. Just not worth the headache.

The 3490 was not in stock last I called, and they were trying to sell me the 3480 for 29k. I will audition the 3490 when its available but I am pretty sure I want the Marantz.

Latest Marantz deals:

Marantz PM 7001: 21k (grey), 30k (with 3 yr warranty and bill)
Marantz PM 7003: 34k (with 3 yr warranty and bill)

 

[gobble]

The 3490 is just not worth 30k mate! I don't source anything from US if it requires a voltage converter. Just not worth the headache.

The 3490 was not in stock last I called, and they were trying to sell me the 3480 for 29k. I will audition the 3490 when its available but I am pretty sure I want the Marantz.

Latest Marantz deals:

Marantz PM 7001: 21k (grey), 30k (with 3 yr warranty and bill)
Marantz PM 7003: 34k (with 3 yr warranty and bill)

Correct Attitude!! I stand by you mate!! That 15K xtra can get you some of the best interconnects available or a custom audio rack etc etc. No point lining the pockets of a trader who is only trying to rip you off and give half the value of what one is paying for!!

Yeah dont buy US 110V stuff. the quality of power supplied by a step down convertor can potentially compromise the entire investment. Sensible thinking mate !!

Cheers

 

[reignofchaos]

The Power rating of amps is of absolutely no significance when comparing across manufacturers. They have completely different ways of measurement and there's no real way to compare. A 20W amp of one make may be significantly more powerful and dynamic than a 100W amp of another make.

Just ignore the specs and listen to the amp itself. If you like the sound, buy it. If not, move on and look for something else.

 

[bhaskie]

The Power rating of amps is of absolutely no significance when comparing across manufacturers. They have completely different ways of measurement and there's no real way to compare. A 20W amp of one make may be significantly more powerful and dynamic than a 100W amp of another make.

Just ignore the specs and listen to the amp itself. If you like the sound, buy it. If not, move on and look for something else.

I agree to that reasoning.

But I also think that the significantly powerful/dynamic 20W amp will be significantly more expensive as well than the 100W amp of another make or another range of amps of the same brand. (Note that the 20W is significantly powerful and dynamic by a considerable factor).
Is that too much of a generalization I am making here?

So would the same reasoning stand when comparing low-fi stereo amps in a price range of 25-35k? Say when trying to compare a 50W NAD to a 75W Marantz?

My only reason at looking at a good power rating is:
1. Provide the amplifier enough headroom (6-12 dB) for peaks without signal clipping (no issues with inaudible peaks) when watching movies or listening to metal and classical music.

2. Drive the 85 dB sensitivity speakers easily at moderately loud volumes.

Is it possible to achieve this with a low power-rated mid-range amp? Honestly I didn't like the way the budget amps specc'ed at 40/45/50 W (at 8 ohms) sounded with stuff I like.

What I would want to buy is something like the Marantz PM 11s1, I really liked the way it sounded but it is way above my budget! It will be great to get an used one though!

 

[dali]

Hi Bashkie

I am using the Dali Ikon2 speakers with Marantz PM 15 and Marantz CDP , The sound is very good ., the sound is detailed and you do not get the ear fatigue even you listen for hours together. The other amplifier which sounded good for the dali was Cyrus . The Cyrus was even better then the Marantz , but i did not have the budget to go for the Cyrus. Hope this information will be of some use to you.

Thank you
Vijay

 

[anm]

I too stand by you. I hate the double rates (and standards) between US and Indian prices. But I think there is no harm in auditioning with your specific speakers. They give home demo too.

Correct Attitude!! I stand by you mate!! That 15K xtra can get you some of the best interconnects available or a custom audio rack etc etc. No point lining the pockets of a trader who is only trying to rip you off and give half the value of what one is paying for!!

Yeah dont buy US 110V stuff. the quality of power supplied by a step down convertor can potentially compromise the entire investment. Sensible thinking mate !!

Cheers

 

[bhaskie]

Hi Bashkie

I am using the Dali Ikon2 speakers with Marantz PM 15 and Marantz CDP , The sound is very good ., the sound is detailed and you do not get the ear fatigue even you listen for hours together. The other amplifier which sounded good for the dali was Cyrus . The Cyrus was even better then the Marantz , but i did not have the budget to go for the Cyrus. Hope this information will be of some use to you.

Thank you
Vijay

Hi Vijay,

Yes, the Ikon 2 and 6 sound really sweet with the Cyrus 8vs2. I was getting the 8vs2 for Rs. 44k (600 GBP) but couldn't any of Cyrus amps (6vs2 or 8vs2) since it would attract customs duty (you have to declare the stuff in the airport so invariably you end up paying a lot extra than the actual cost).
Instead I got the Dali speakers which came for a lot less and didn't require extra baggage charges or customs.

I don't know the exact price of the Cyrus amps in India but they are a lot more expensive here AFAIK. I think the 8vs2 will be at least 75k and so it's way above what I plan to spend. I think the Marantz PM 15s1 also comes for around 60k, so I am not going for that either

I have limited myself to 60k for amp (32k) +speakers (18k) + soundcard (10k) and 5k for interconnects and cables and stand

The Ikon 2 is at 88dB sensitivity and 8ohms, so it is easier to drive with the 90W PM15s1 amp. The Lektor 2 is not as good as the Ikon 2 but I found them much better than a lot of other bookshelves that I'd auditioned.

Do you use them to watch movies? How would you rate them in that context? With 100W at a distance of 2.5m, you can get 85dB SPL with 15dB headroom for the amplifier, so the experience should be really good theoretically!

Cheers!
Bhaskie

 

[reignofchaos]

I agree to that reasoning.

But I also think that the significantly powerful/dynamic 20W amp will be significantly more expensive as well than the 100W amp of another make or another range of amps of the same brand. (Note that the 20W is significantly powerful and dynamic by a considerable factor).
Is that too much of a generalization I am making here?

So would the same reasoning stand when comparing low-fi stereo amps in a price range of 25-35k? Say when trying to compare a 50W NAD to a 75W Marantz?

My only reason at looking at a good power rating is:
1. Provide the amplifier enough headroom (6-12 dB) for peaks without signal clipping (no issues with inaudible peaks) when watching movies or listening to metal and classical music.

2. Drive the 85 dB sensitivity speakers easily at moderately loud volumes.

Is it possible to achieve this with a low power-rated mid-range amp? Honestly I didn't like the way the budget amps specc'ed at 40/45/50 W (at 8 ohms) sounded with stuff I like.

What I would want to buy is something like the Marantz PM 11s1, I really liked the way it sounded but it is way above my budget! It will be great to get an used one though!

Across the board, I'd buy an amp for its qualities and that doesn't include advertised power. The PM7001 is a better amp than a NAD C320 not because of the extra 20W but because it is just tonally a better sounding amplifier.

If you really want a very good amp, I remember forum member Arj trying to let go his Sugden 25W Class A for a very good price that might be to your budget. Not sure if its still on sale but this amp will blow away everything else out there in this price range. When you do not have a very big budget, buy preowned hifi. Its a lot better than wasting money on a mediocre new product. Someone else I know is planning to let go of a Marantz PM17 which is a far far better amp than the PM7001 for a good price. These are far better amps that what you are looking at.

The pure sensitivity figure means jack. What you need to see is how the speaker behaves throughout the audio spectrum - are there any significant impedance dips which will cause a smaller amp to lose control or if there are some funny phase angles. In case there are dips, you need an amp that is stable at lower impedances. A benign 85dB load can easily be driven a 20 watter.

 

[bhaskie]

Across the board, I'd buy an amp for its qualities and that doesn't include advertised power. The PM7001 is a better amp than a NAD C320 not because of the extra 20W but because it is just tonally a better sounding amplifier.

If you really want a very good amp, I remember forum member Arj trying to let go his Sugden 25W Class A for a very good price that might be to your budget. Not sure if its still on sale but this amp will blow away everything else out there in this price range. When you do not have a very big budget, buy preowned hifi. Its a lot better than wasting money on a mediocre new product. Someone else I know is planning to let go of a Marantz PM17 which is a far far better amp than the PM7001 for a good price. These are far better amps that what you are looking at.

The pure sensitivity figure means jack. What you need to see is how the speaker behaves throughout the audio spectrum - are there any significant impedance dips which will cause a smaller amp to lose control or if there are some funny phase angles. In case there are dips, you need an amp that is stable at lower impedances. A benign 85dB load can easily be driven a 20 watter.

If the Sugden A21a is within my budget nothing like it! I will contact him for sure. 1 yr olds go for around $1k currently, so getting one for 30k and hopefully not too old would be a great deal. This amp seems to be really liked by everyone!

If you are talking about the Marantz PM17 MKII, I already had a chat about it. Its above my budget so I couldn't strike a deal.

Here in Delhi the dealers don't really have anything in stock. Nor do you have people selling good used hi-fi. The state is pretty deplorable.

I have heard only a couple of high-end amps and I really liked them, but buying them currently is just not possible. I will continue with my Senn HD600 and Xonar Essence STX until I find something that gives me satisfaction.

I understand the more wattage bull* but I can't help it with the kind of budget I have currently. Ending up with a new 30k amp and hating it is a nightmare! I am still freaked out because in most of my auditions the amps I ended up liking were way out of budget!

Thanks a lot for the gyaan RoC!

 

[dali]

Hi Vijay,

Yes, the Ikon 2 and 6 sound really sweet with the Cyrus 8vs2. I was getting the 8vs2 for Rs. 44k (600 GBP) but couldn't any of Cyrus amps (6vs2 or 8vs2) since it would attract customs duty (you have to declare the stuff in the airport so invariably you end up paying a lot extra than the actual cost).
Instead I got the Dali speakers which came for a lot less and didn't require extra baggage charges or customs.

I don't know the exact price of the Cyrus amps in India but they are a lot more expensive here AFAIK. I think the 8vs2 will be at least 75k and so it's way above what I plan to spend. I think the Marantz PM 15s1 also comes for around 60k, so I am not going for that either

I have limited myself to 60k for amp (32k) +speakers (18k) + soundcard (10k) and 5k for interconnects and cables and stand

The Ikon 2 is at 88dB sensitivity and 8ohms, so it is easier to drive with the 90W PM15s1 amp. The Lektor 2 is not as good as the Ikon 2 but I found them much better than a lot of other bookshelves that I'd auditioned.

Do you use them to watch movies? How would you rate them in that context? With 100W at a distance of 2.5m, you can get 85dB SPL with 15dB headroom for the amplifier, so the experience should be really good theoretically!

Cheers!
Bhaskie

Hi Bhaskie

I am not using the Speakers for any HT purpose , Just pure music . i did try the PM 17 , but not good for the Dali :sad: . Regarding the SPL and distance measurements i am not that much technically sound , I went on to buy the speakers which sounded best to my ears.

vijay

 

[square_wave]

Hi Bhaskie

I am not using the Speakers for any HT purpose , Just pure music . i did try the PM 17 , but not good for the Dali :sad: . Regarding the SPL and distance measurements i am not that much technically sound , I went on to buy the speakers which sounded best to my ears.

vijay

Can you please elaborate why it did not match? It will help other members.
1. Tonality (personal taste)
2. Resolving what music did you play and your observations.
3. Neutral - what music did you play and your observations.
4. Drive - what music did you play and your observations.
5. Associated gear, cables.
6. Any other.

 

[bhaskie]

Anybody using Marantz PM 6002/7001/7003 or higher models for movies, please post your feedback!

Thanks,
Bhaskie

 

[dali]

Can you please elaborate why it did not match? It will help other members.
1. Tonality (personal taste)
2. Resolving what music did you play and your observations.
3. Neutral - what music did you play and your observations.
4. Drive - what music did you play and your observations.
5. Associated gear, cables.
6. Any other.

Square wave

The sound from the PM 17 was very muddy . It lacked the bass and the hi frequency was also not attractive. i dont know how to tell reg the Neutral and Tonality , But as a whole the amp did not match the Dali ikon 2 .
My friend is using a Old Model Mordaunt Short with this PM 17 and the sound is ok with that combination. The cables are Atallona and the music i normally listen is old hindi songs and Ghazals and some English pop and country.


vijay.

Edit : I heard the Dali ikon 2 with PM 17 , the next day i bought my speakers , the reason for the sound difference may be due to the speakers which were not yet break in.