Subwoofer recommendation

Hahaha...Why Not!
I'm chucking the idea of upgrading my AVR for now, as it is perfectly acceptable for movies. The only connection I'm missing is the Front speaker pre-outs. I'll get something beefy when budgeting permits.
Instead, I'll invest in a decent Integrated amplifier for the same money.
I'm thinking of the Audiolab 6000A. It has a Pre-Power bypass mode, will future-proof my setup.

Kindly recheck. Audiolab 6000A dosent have HT bypass, so you cannot bypass the volume control. It has pre outs to connect to another amplifier, which will make it work like an preamp with volume control.

You can take a look at below list

 
Kindly recheck. Audiolab 6000A dosent have HT bypass, so you cannot bypass the volume control. It has pre outs to connect to another amplifier, which will make it work like an preamp with volume control.

You can take a look at below list


The amp has has three modes.
INTEGRATED - Pre and Power are in operation, with an additional provision for an external amp for Bi-amplification

PRE-POWER - Pre Amplification is disconnected, works as a Power Amp. (HT Bypass, AVR to be connected to the Power Input connectors of the Audiolab)

PRE - Power Amplification is disconnected, operates as a Pre Amp.

As per the manuals, page 6.

 
Kindly recheck. Audiolab 6000A dosent have HT bypass, so you cannot bypass the volume control. It has pre outs to connect to another amplifier, which will make it work like an preamp with volume control.

You can take a look at below list

This list is from 2017.
6000A was launched in 2018
 
The amp has has three modes.
INTEGRATED - Pre and Power are in operation, with an additional provision for an external amp for Bi-amplification

PRE-POWER - Pre Amplification is disconnected, works as a Power Amp. (HT Bypass, AVR to be connected to the Power Input connectors of the Audiolab)

PRE - Power Amplification is disconnected, operates as a Pre Amp.

As per the manuals, page 6.


That's great. The mode switch is available on remote too, which should make changing modes easier.

This can work for you. Does your avr has pre outs. How do you plan to connect your avr to audiolab.

Do let us know, how it worked out for you.
 
That's great. The mode switch is available on remote too, which should make changing modes easier.

This can work for you. Does your avr has pre outs. How do you plan to connect your avr to audiolab.

Do let us know, how it worked out for you.
Unfortunately, my AVR has no pre-out.
I'm contemplating driving the movie sound through the Audiolab itself.
My speakers create a superb image, vocals stay nice and lucid in the centre. I might actually get rid of the AVR and the Centre Speaker.
If power from the Audiolab isn't enough for movies I might add a power amp later on.
 
My Audiolab is being shipped today!
The only thing remaining now is to add a quality subwoofer. I'll take generous time to select a sub, I want to audition them with the Qacoustics, if possible, and ideally.
The two subs I've narrowed down are:
Rythmik L12/F12
REL T/9i
 
My Audiolab is being shipped today!
The only thing remaining now is to add a quality subwoofer. I'll take generous time to select a sub, I want to audition them with the Qacoustics, if possible, and ideally.
The two subs I've narrowed down are:
Rythmik L12/F12
REL T/9i

If you are coming to bangalore, I suggest auditioning SVS, XTZ subwoofers as well

Considering your room size, I suggest 12" subwoofer with 500W or more Amp power.
REL T/9i is a 10" sub having 300W Amp, its low frequency extension is -6dB at 28Hz - not suitable for movies in my opinion. You may have to consider higher model.
 
If you are coming to bangalore, I suggest auditioning SVS, XTZ subwoofers as well

Considering your room size, I suggest 12" subwoofer with 500W or more Amp power.
REL T/9i is a 10" sub having 300W Amp, its low frequency extension is -6dB at 28Hz - not suitable for movies in my opinion. You may have to consider higher model.
True. REL T9/i is more of a sub bass unit than a true sub woofer.
It will not do justice to LFE in movie soundtracks. For music setup (2.1) it is a very competent model.
300W is not a small amount of power and it is from a class A/B topology.
REL has released a new HT series that reads to be promising (class D topology).
Hopefully Bangalore dealers have a unit for demo.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
Agree with @raghupb on REL t9i. I have personally auditioned them. It works very well for music, however for movies, it left a lot to be desired, specially if you like low rumble during movies. But since your preference is music, it can work for you as you are already satisfied with the bass of your FS.
But i would advice you to demo couple of subs, before making a plunge. Sometimes, even we don't know what we like unless we hear it for the first time.

Include svs, xtz, rythmik and rel for your audition. It will also come down to your budget. On lower budget, you can consider Polk audio and Bic america subs. Both have good value for money subs.

Also, since you plan to take out your avr, do plan on how you would be connecting your subs to your system, as i think there is no sub out on audiolab. You need to consider wiring accordingly and then use controls on the sub for blending. So having a sub with lot of tuning options might come in handy.

If you have the budget and want something equally good for movies and music, you can consider svs sb3000. Xtz also have good tuning options on their sub and i believe are priced lower than svs. There are many happy xtz owners in this forum.
 
If you are coming to bangalore, I suggest auditioning SVS, XTZ subwoofers as well

Considering your room size, I suggest 12" subwoofer with 500W or more Amp power.
REL T/9i is a 10" sub having 300W Amp, its low frequency extension is -6dB at 28Hz - not suitable for movies in my opinion. You may have to consider higher model.
Hello @HTuser ,
Could you please tell me what these numbers mean '-6db at 28Hz'?
 
True. REL T9/i is more of a sub bass unit than a true sub woofer.
It will not do justice to LFE in movie soundtracks. For music setup (2.1) it is a very competent model.
300W is not a small amount of power and it is from a class A/B topology.
REL has released a new HT series that reads to be promising (class D topology).
Hopefully Bangalore dealers have a unit for demo.

Cheers,
Raghu
The sub will be used exclusively for music.
I just want to add more depth and stage to the lower frequencies. A soft but tight bass to bring the drums alive!
 
Agree with @raghupb on REL t9i. I have personally auditioned them. It works very well for music, however for movies, it left a lot to be desired, specially if you like low rumble during movies. But since your preference is music, it can work for you as you are already satisfied with the bass of your FS.
But i would advice you to demo couple of subs, before making a plunge. Sometimes, even we don't know what we like unless we hear it for the first time.

Include svs, xtz, rythmik and rel for your audition. It will also come down to your budget. On lower budget, you can consider Polk audio and Bic america subs. Both have good value for money subs.

Also, since you plan to take out your avr, do plan on how you would be connecting your subs to your system, as i think there is no sub out on audiolab. You need to consider wiring accordingly and then use controls on the sub for blending. So having a sub with lot of tuning options might come in handy.

If you have the budget and want something equally good for movies and music, you can consider svs sb3000. Xtz also have good tuning options on their sub and i believe are priced lower than svs. There are many happy xtz owners in this forum.
I would most definitely want to audition all of the brands you've mentioned.
I'm planning to make a trip to Bangalore just to audition these subs. It would be lovely to meet forum members whilst there!
Ideally I think the best auditions would be in someone's house, as the environment would be realistic, as opposed to demo rooms.

Adding dual subs is also an option, but at a later date. I would rather have two smaller subs than one huge unit. If I'm taking the dual subs route then adding Rythmik L12 (decision only after auditioning) makes the most sense. I could almost buy two subs for the price of one Rythmik F12!

A very good question regarding connecting the sub to the Audiolab. That amp has pre-out, Left and Right. I know I can connect one sub. Can two be connected? Left pre-out to one sub and Right pre-out to another sub? Does this work? (This is only if I ever plan to add a second sub.
 
REL has what is called high-level connect. It can be wired up in parallel to mains speaker terminals.
Other brands may have something similar. Please explore.
Otherwise, you can connect L and R preout to two subs or just L/R to one sub
Cheers,
Raghu
 
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Hello @HTuser ,
Could you please tell me what these numbers mean '-6db at 28Hz'?

We measure the frequency response of the speaker and subwoofer to decide the range of frequency it can produce without reducing the sound level.
For e.g. SVS bookshelf speaker is having the range of 48 Hz-25 kHz (±3 dB)
SVS SB3000 frequency response is 18Hz to 270Hz (±3 dB)

I also attached the frequency response graph of SB3000.

When sound is doubled, it's equated to 3db using a log scale. This also works in reverse – if there is a 3db decrease, the sound is cut in half.

As you can see in SVS SB3000 graph it produced almost same level (within ±3 dB) from 18Hz to 270Hz.

So in case of REL T/9i sound level reduces to Quarter when it produces 28Hz compared to lets say 50Hz. Since they have not published the frequency response graph, we don't know at what frequency sound level reduces to -3dB (Half).

Movies typically contains frequencies down to 20Hz, so this kind of subwoofer is not a good option for movies.

If your requirement is 100% for music and the content you will be using is within the frequency range this subwoofer (REL T/9i) can comfortably produce, you may still consider. Audition the subwoofers with same songs.

Do not limit your audition to the existing setup of forum members, every room is different and the subwoofer may be good but you may not like it due to room modes or other issues related to the room. If the user has not done proper configuration or calibration like Audyssey, there may be issues in the output.

Regards,
 

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We measure the frequency response of the speaker and subwoofer to decide the range of frequency it can produce without reducing the sound level.
For e.g. SVS bookshelf speaker is having the range of 48 Hz-25 kHz (±3 dB)
SVS SB3000 frequency response is 18Hz to 270Hz (±3 dB)

I also attached the frequency response graph of SB3000.

When sound is doubled, it's equated to 3db using a log scale. This also works in reverse – if there is a 3db decrease, the sound is cut in half.

As you can see in SVS SB3000 graph it produced almost same level (within ±3 dB) from 18Hz to 270Hz.

So in case of REL T/9i sound level reduces to Quarter when it produces 28Hz compared to lets say 50Hz. Since they have not published the frequency response graph, we don't know at what frequency sound level reduces to -3dB (Half).

Movies typically contains frequencies down to 20Hz, so this kind of subwoofer is not a good option for movies.

If your requirement is 100% for music and the content you will be using is within the frequency range this subwoofer (REL T/9i) can comfortably produce, you may still consider. Audition the subwoofers with same songs.

Do not limit your audition to the existing setup of forum members, every room is different and the subwoofer may be good but you may not like it due to room modes or other issues related to the room. If the user has not done proper configuration or calibration like Audyssey, there may be issues in the output.

Regards,
Thanks for the detailed explanation. This helps.
 
Hello All!

Thank you all for your input and suggestions with regards to my query.

The main issue was to solve the booming of a certain low frequency, I have tamed this issue to some extent with DIY Acoustic panels, you can read about it here https://www.hifivision.com/threads/diy-room-acoustics.71796/post-860652

The booming although tamed, still exists, in much lower doses though, and it's only with one particular song. So I have decided to give this matter a rest, as I very well know that this is going to be an endless and expensive endeavour!

Now that this matter is ironed, I'm ready for dual subs.
 
Hello All!

Thank you all for your input and suggestions with regards to my query.

The main issue was to solve the booming of a certain low frequency, I have tamed this issue to some extent with DIY Acoustic panels, you can read about it here https://www.hifivision.com/threads/diy-room-acoustics.71796/post-860652

The booming although tamed, still exists, in much lower doses though, and it's only with one particular song. So I have decided to give this matter a rest, as I very well know that this is going to be an endless and expensive endeavour!

Now that this matter is ironed, I'm ready for dual subs.

You may also consider adding corner bass traps as you were/are facing issues with bass frequencies.
 
You may also consider adding corner bass traps as you were/are facing issues with bass frequencies.
That seems to be my only hope. I was looking into these. I was hoping to get some feedback on these if someone has tried them out.



These look massive
 
This post will be the culmination to my original query on this thread for a subwoofer recommendation.

Here’s a little background story: (Or jump straight to the Rythmiks)

My journey began on HiFiVision in 2010, when I was looking for a simple stereo setup for a small room. I ended up with the Usher S-520, A Harmon Kardon HK3390, and a used Marantz CD 6002, purchased from FM @suri, who so graciously let me have it for a bargain.

The setup was a big step up for me in stereo, and I disappeared into an aura of music ever since, while taking a hiatus from HiFiVision.

Circumstances had me move my setup from my computer room to the living room in late 2019, and that’s when I realised that the Ushers were not going to cut it anymore. The Harmon Kardon was long gone due to a chip failure, replaced with a Denon X1000, and the CDP was let go to an FM in 2015.


Q Acoustics 3050i

After a couple of beers, and checking my bank account for a positive balance, I decided to plunge into a Floorstander. After thorough research, a pair of Q Acoustics 3050i parked themselves in my living room in December 2019. I was so BOWLED over by them, I was ecstatic, they were fantastic! The adage ‘No replacement for Displacement’ is rather apt.

I had an echo in the room that needed to be tamed. This led me to a DIY project to fabricate some acoustic panels, and these worked perfectly.

Here are some pictures of the panels in another thread.

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/diy-room-acoustics.71796/post-860652



Audiolab 6000A

I decided to treat the Q Acoustics with a deserving amplifier, and I picked up the tried, tested, and trusted the Audiolab 6000A. My first impressions were that it sounded ‘different’. It was airy, spacy, a sound signature that I wasn’t used to. I quickly went back to my comfort zone with the Denon, a sound signature that I was accustomed to.

The next day I decided to give the Audiolab another listen and it quickly grew on me! I thumped my chest and confidently declared ‘They are a perfect match’ (the Q Acoustics and the Audiolab)


Paradigm PW Link


The original booming issue (mentioned at the start of this thread) still existed.

I decided to tame this with room correction, and something that would do correction on the cheap. Mini DSP was the first obvious choice, given its versatility, but then I realised I wouldn’t have the patience for the ‘learning curve’ involved. Another sweet contender was the paradigm PW Link, which would also serve as a streamer, this was perfect for me, a simple and straightforward correction software, with a streamer! As my luck would have it, the PW Link was nowhere available online in India.

A quick query in the ‘wanted’ section led me to FM @superczar to part ways with his PW Link. A special mention to @superczar for navigating me to set it up and troubleshoot, he was immensely helpful.

The room correction did help in sorting out the booming issue by cutting down the suspecting frequency and giving me a flat response overall. I was happy, all was well, …….for a while, until something started to bother me! In the guise of a flat response the room correction had bumped up the upper midrange and this wasn’t pleasant to listen to all, it was subtle, but it bothered me.

I bypassed the room correction and looked onwards to tame the boom.


DIY Bass Trap

My research led me to sum up that the ‘Room is the prick, and is responsible for everything you listen to’.

I mugged up whatever I could on the internet and along with FM @elangoas suggestion on the appropriate foam to use, I dived into another DIY project, for a Bass Trap.

Some pictures here:

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/diy-room-acoustics.71796/post-861646

The trap, along with panels on the back wall corners, behind the curtain, did manage to soften the boom, and I was pleased.


Crown XLS 1502

While everything seemed to be in harmony, I noticed that the Audiolab could breathe and sing a little better with a Power Amp. Internet scavenging again, I bumped on this wonderful little gem. And was surprised that a few of the FMs were already using Professional Audio amps for Home Audio purposes. FM @drkrack 's review of a model in the Crown’s stable was enough for me to give this amp a try.

Here’s his well-articulated review:

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/crown-xls-2502-my-review-of-sorts.75020/

This amp is a beast, to say the least! Pumps out volume effortlessly. I would be wrong if I said my first impression was all rosy. It wasn’t. The amp sounded harsh, as also described by @drkrack. But I held my patience and gave it enough time. It has gotten much better. The highs have smoothened out and tapered to being tolerable, and enjoyable, again!. The soundstage is super wide. Truly happy with the setup. These amps can be had for cheap. If ever you come across one do give them a listen, you might just be surprised.


Rythmik L12

Coming back to my original query for a subwoofer, as was the intention of this thread, I do have to thank all the FMs who contributed with their time, expertise and suggestions, especially @Kumar442244, for his review on L12, which was the first nail on the coffin, (Here’s his review)

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...ion-experience-and-feedback.68426/post-759302

And then finally, for his preliminary discussions with Santosh, of Prosonics, which sealed the deal for a pair of Rythmik L12s. Thanks @Kumar442244.

The Rythmiks arrived last week, and I have been playing around with various placements since then. The only way I would describe their sound is ‘LUSH’. They just melt in the background, filling the room with soft and wide vibrations. They also made me realise how low the Q Acoustics dig, at times I have to double-check if my subs are powered on.

Because the QAs go so low, I have dialled down the subs to go below 45Hz, and they do it wonderfully. Not as effective for music, as most of the music I listen to doesn’t dig that deep in the lower frequency. But I was thoroughly surprised by how wonderful the kick drum sounded in some of the pop songs I have heard all my life. The subs have given the lower registers a life of their own, they sound energised, without the added slam, or thump, they are soft and clear.

The Rythmik’s have added a whole new dimension to movies. You can feel the energy of the horses galloping, or a space ship taking off, the room reverberates pleasantly.

You know you have a well-synergized system when you just want to keep cranking that volume up, and every instrument and every beat is still precise, clear and separated, it just puts a devilish smile on your face.

This has been an incredible journey, a journey that has been a learning, fruitful, expensive, but totally worth it. And I must rest for now, and be immersed in the music I love! This forum has exceptional human beings! What a delight it has been!


P.S. This is a really nice track to check your imaging. The Vocals are dead centre, the snare drum so precise with a hint of reverb, and that bassline in the background that binds everything together.

Spotify link


Youtube Link


Don’t forget to turn up your volume all the way up, let your neighbourhood in on this too!
 
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The room correction did help in sorting out the booming issue by cutting down the suspecting frequency and giving me a flat response overall. I was happy, all was well, …….for a while, until something started to bother me! In the guise of a flat response the room correction had bumped up the upper midrange and this wasn’t pleasant to listen to all, it was subtle, but it bothered me.

I bypassed the room correction and looked onwards to tame the boom.
You do know that can adjust the target curve to your liking on ARC, right?
Try that out too, pull down the midrange section by a couple of dBs and give that a shot too
 
Purchase the Audiolab 6000A Integrated Amplifier at a special offer price.
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