Suggestion for Apple Lossless

[Kannan]

The Apple Music app on Android allows playback of lossless and hires audio. If your phone's DAC does not support lossless then you can use an external USB Dac if your phone supports OTG.

here are few pics.

Apple Music from my Android phone connected to FiiO BTA30 pro: The yellow light on FiiO indicates the playback is at native resolution



Same lossless track via Apple Music from iPad 2 connected to Fiio DAC. The blue light on FiiO indicates the playback is below 48khz as Ipad 2 does not support lossless playback from Apple Music app.



Playback of a 96khz file using Foobar on IPad 2 connected to the FiiO DAC from my DLNA server. The yellow light on FiiO indicates the playback is at native 96khz.

 

[jai1611]

Same lossless track via Apple Music from iPad 2 connected to Fiio DAC. The blue light on FiiO indicates the playback is below 48khz as Ipad 2 does not support lossless playback from Apple Music app.

View attachment 73408

Older Apple devices don't have full lossless support due to os limitations. They generally keep software updates going for five years and some older devices didn't receive support

 

[Kannan]

Older Apple devices don't have full lossless support due to os limitations. They generally keep software updates going for five years and some older devices didn't receive support

Yes...nothing works in iPad 2. I have done a work around by installing an earlier version of itunes which has Apple store support to download earlier versions of apps that work on IOS 9.5

 

[ajuvignesh]

This is what apple mentions on their website.

While the difference between AAC and lossless audio is virtually indistinguishable, we’re offering Apple Music subscribers the option to access music in lossless audio compression.

About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support (IN)
So, let's not scratch our heads at the minuscule difference between AAC and ALAC, let's enjoy some music.

 

[Kannan]

So, let's not scratch our heads at the minuscule difference between AAC and ALAC, let's enjoy some music.

Also unless you have a stable connectivity, AAC streaming is stabler than ALAC .
Regarding audible differences, it is a subjective matter, but if your system can do ALAC without dropouts, go for it

 

[ajuvignesh]

Also unless you have a stable connectivity, AAC streaming is stabler than ALAC .
Regarding audible differences, it is a subjective matter, but if your system can do ALAC without dropouts, go for it

yes, ALAC can go up to 150 Mb per song, if I'm not wrong.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

This is what apple mentions on their website.


About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support (IN)
So, let's not scratch our heads at the minuscule difference between AAC and ALAC, let's enjoy some music.

That’s sacrilegious in an audiophile forum ! Most of us pay lacs of rupees (and/or spend hundreds of hours of time) to get that improvement in the sound of their system. Why shouldn’t that difference matter then?

Also unless you have a stable connectivity, AAC streaming is stabler than ALAC .

Can’t be a justification for settling for AAC just because Apple didn’t think through the implementation of lossless music well in the first place. What about those of us who have stable connectivity, even for hi-res streaming? And frankly, since most people today are able to stream HD movies on their broadband, ALAC shouldn’t be a challenge.

 

[ajuvignesh]

That’s sacrilegious in an audiophile forum ! Most of us pay lacs of rupees (and/or spend hundreds of hours of time) to get that improvement in the sound of their system. Why shouldn’t that difference matter then?



Can’t be a justification for settling for AAC just because Apple didn’t think through the implementation of lossless music well in the first place. What about those of us who have stable connectivity, even for hi-res streaming? And frankly, since most people today are able to stream HD movies on their broadband, ALAC shouldn’t be a challenge.

If one keep chasing after resolution like there is no tomorrow, forgetting about what we have now to enjoy music, the chase will never end and you can still be unsatisfied with what you have.

192 Kiloherts is not at all required for home audio. 48 Kiloherts is just fine if not 96 Kilohertz. You cannot differentiate between a 24 bit 96 Khz and a 24 bit 192 Khz files.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

If one keep chasing after resolution like there is no tomorrow, forgetting about what we have now to enjoy music, the chase will never end and you can still be unsatisfied with what you have.

192 Kiloherts is not at all required for home audio. 48 Kiloherts is just fine if not 96 Kilohertz. You cannot differentiate between a 24 bit 96 Khz and a 24 bit 192 Khz files.

I understand that and am quite happy listening on 320 kbps on Spotify or even the radio as I love my music. But that doesn’t mean I downplay the difference between ALAC and AAC. I decided to let go of the lossless play because connecting laptop/phone to the DAC isn’t convenient for me. But whenever I did, ALAC sounded decidedly better. So whenever a lossless streaming option that doesn’t need me to be tethered to my DAC comes to the shores, I’d positively go for it.

 

[Kannan]

Another way to enable lossless on Android is via LDAC enabled transport or while listening on headphones with LDAC codecs.
LDAC enables the transmission of audio content, including High Resolution (Hi-Res) Audio, at the maximum bitrate of 990kbps even over a Bluetooth.
This has to be enabled under Developer Options under System in Settings.

 

[Kannan]

That’s sacrilegious in an audiophile forum ! Most of us pay lacs of rupees (and/or spend hundreds of hours of time) to get that improvement in the sound of their system. Why shouldn’t that difference matter then?



Can’t be a justification for settling for AAC just because Apple didn’t think through the implementation of lossless music well in the first place. What about those of us who have stable connectivity, even for hi-res streaming? And frankly, since most people today are able to stream HD movies on their broadband, ALAC shouldn’t be a challenge.

that is why I said...choose ALAC as long as there is no stutter.

 

[nuvo]

Apple lossless music is lossless or not is not, I am not sure. Yesterday, I checked Apple Music desktop app which is available on Windows 11 but the streaming details for some of the so-called lossless songs were 256 kbps only.

Having said that, Apple music through the app seems better than Amazon music and Spotify. However, it can't match FLAC. I played FLAC and Apple Music files side by side and FLAC is better.

Still, for the convenience, I have embraced Apple Music. I have played Apple music through Apple TV 4K, and through iPhone via Airplay - the airplay is definitely inferior.

Hence, even if your receiver supports Airplay, I suggest you may go for Apple TV 4k.

 

[quad_core]

The Apple Music app on Android allows playback of lossless and hires audio. If your phone's DAC does not support lossless then you can use an external USB Dac if your phone supports OTG.

here are few pics.

Apple Music from my Android phone connected to FiiO BTA30 pro: The yellow light on FiiO indicates the playback is at native resolution

View attachment 73407

Same lossless track via Apple Music from iPad 2 connected to Fiio DAC. The blue light on FiiO indicates the playback is below 48khz as Ipad 2 does not support lossless playback from Apple Music app.

View attachment 73408

Playback of a 96khz file using Foobar on IPad 2 connected to the FiiO DAC from my DLNA server. The yellow light on FiiO indicates the playback is at native 96khz.

View attachment 73409

Hi there. I also have the fiio BTA30 pro . I wanted to ask, how did you connect the iPad to BTA30 Pro ? Which cable did you use, and was the iPad able to power the Fiio BTA30 pro DAC?

 

[Kannan]

Not tried with any apple device so far. Works seamlessly with android though.

 

[Analogous]

airplay supports lossless with ALAC only when the source has sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. So Hi-Res will not be lossless. If you have the age old Airport express, then they support losless as long as your source has sampling rate of 44.1 kHz.

ATV resamples everything to 48 kHz. So it is not bit-perfect. It has been made for watching movies and the movie industry uses 48 kHz for audio. So forget about ATV ever supporting sampling rate other than 48 kHz.

macbooks can play bit-perfect if you use the earphone out (ha ha). Who does that?
macbooks can play bit-perfect to a connected usb dac if you change the sampling rate using 'Audio Midi Setup' app to match the source every time the source changes. The macOS is so dumb that it cannot change sampling rate automatically. I use mac mini and macbook pro and am terribly upset that my < Rs 40k linux laptop can play music better than my 2 lac+ macbook pro.

The only option you have is to use ipad or iphone (the one with IOS that support Apple Music) and connect to your DAC using the camera connection kit. Only the later IOS version have the ability to automatically adjust the sampling rate as per the source (which Windows and Linux had it for ages). But I think I have OCD. I can never imagine myself using a mobile device to connect to my rig in order to play music.

For a long long time, apple decided that what the users need is mp3 at 320 kpbs and anything more than that users cannot hear. That was the age of the IPODS. Now with streaming services overtaking digital sales, the giant has woken up. But it will take time for them to catch up. I have both apple music and spotify premium and I don't think I will renew my apple subscription next year unless they fix their lossless mess.

Part 1

Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res Mess

This morning I've been testing Apple Music's new lossless and Hi-Res offerings on both my iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.6 and my Mac Mini (M1) running macOS 11.4. In my tests, I'm only concerned with playing the music bit perfectly, in other words without making any changes to the audio. If Apple ...

audiophilestyle.com

Part 2

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

Apple Music’s hi-res streaming is a bit of a mess | Darko.Audio

The promise of Apple's hi-res audio supply is strong but the reality unearths gotcha after gotcha.

darko.audio

It may be worthwhile if those interested can come together here to jointly request Apple to make it easier to access AM at High Resolution streams. Seamlessly, with any streamer/DAC/ amp capable of this, using any mobile device (tablets, phones, laptops)
If Tidal, Qobuz and others can do it it should be easy enough for Apple too.

Just a poll or a thread on this topic (with likes) shared with Apple would do. Any interest?

 

[mbhangui]

It may be worthwhile if those interested can come together here to jointly request Apple to make it easier to access AM at High Resolution streams. Seamlessly, with any streamer/DAC/ amp capable of this, using any mobile device (tablets, phones, laptops)
If Tidal, Qobuz and others can do it it should be easy enough for Apple too.

Just a poll or a thread on this topic (with likes) shared with Apple would do. Any interest?

I think apple has moved in that direction. They have the android AM app. Howerver the problem is with the current android versions which are not bit-perfect. The next version of android will have bit-perfect capability. Android 14 supports bit-perfect audio. This means that it supports lossless USB audio, which can provide pristine music playback if app developers support the new API. Tehre are devices like the eversolo, etc which do lossless, which I suspect is by using the beta version of android 14. Can any user of eversolo dmp confirm the android version on the streamer?

Apple has already released an API kit (MusicKit.JS) for apple music. There is cider which works on linux, windows and mac, but ATM it doesn't do lossless or bit-perfect. On apple's own forum people have been asking for it. So one day apple might wake up and do the thing. Hoping for that or android 14, whichever comes first.

 

[jaiwant_alex]

Hoping for that or android 14, whichever comes first.

Android 14 updates have already started on a few models (mostly 2023 models). Hopefully it should be available in a few months

 

[Kannan]

Hi there. I also have the fiio BTA30 pro . I wanted to ask, how did you connect the iPad to BTA30 Pro ? Which cable did you use, and was the iPad able to power the Fiio BTA30 pro DAC?

You will apparently need a camera connection kit, not sure which versions of idevices are supported though

 

[Kannan]

I think apple has moved in that direction. They have the android AM app. Howerver the problem is with the current android versions which are not bit-perfect. The next version of android will have bit-perfect capability. Android 14 supports bit-perfect audio. This means that it supports lossless USB audio, which can provide pristine music playback if app developers support the new API. Tehre are devices like the eversolo, etc which do lossless, which I suspect is by using the beta version of android 14. Can any user of eversolo dmp confirm the android version on the streamer?

Apple has already released an API kit (MusicKit.JS) for apple music. There is cider which works on linux, windows and mac, but ATM it doesn't do lossless or bit-perfect. On apple's own forum people have been asking for it. So one day apple might wake up and do the thing. Hoping for that or android 14, whichever comes first.

USB Audio Pro is one way to get bit perfect output out of Android devices.

 

[mbhangui]

USB Audio Pro is one way to get bit perfect output out of Android devices.

Yes. I'm using that to play bitperfect files on my NAS. It doesn't use the android audio system