SVS pb2000 Duals to JBL 4642a wow

[srinharish]

Take me for example I once believed Philips 5.1 was the best and had no idea of set ups like Denon, marantz, Dali etc existed.

l also thought that, i am having the best while using my sony 5.1, 15 years ago.

 

[drkrack]

Before I go any further, would like to know what frequencies anyone consider 'MIDBASS'. Experience a proper setup room and then come to an openion.

This is the Correct question to ask...
There are few Conflicting opinions but a Frequency Range Between 120hz - 300hz is mostly accepted as Mid Bass ; most of the Musical bass resides in this range. Correct me if Wrong. The Tower Speakers with 8" or Larger woofers are quite popular because they give the required Oomph to this Range.

@OP My Question is Why Would you buy a Subwoofer for Midbass (that too ported one for Music) ? Subwoofer as the name suggests should Cater well to Subwoofer Frequencies, Rest should be handled by LCR etc, There's Subwoofer selection tool on SVS website, use it to buy the correct subwoofer matching with your LCR speakers. I'm not a fan of any brand. I have used many Subwoofer in Last 10 years, but I keep coming back to this brand for mostly HT applications.
Anyways, Congratulations for the JBL Subwoofer, it Sure looks massive, as long as you are happy nothing else matters! (kindly refrain from making sweeping generalizations).

 

[Nitin K]

Totally agree with your point of view Drkrack. A sub's job is to produce the lower frequencies which the LCR cannot. If a subwoofer is supposed to produce the midbass in the 120hz -300hz region, then won't it sound directional ?

 

[Love4sound]

This is the Correct question to ask...
There are few Conflicting opinions but a Frequency Range Between 120hz - 300hz is mostly accepted as Mid Bass ; most of the Musical bass resides in this range. Correct me if Wrong. The Tower Speakers with 8" or Larger woofers are quite popular because they give the required Oomph to this Range.

Just out of curiosity. If he had issues in the 120hz-300 hz I don’t think the JBL Would have made much improvements. Guess he had issues with 40-100hz region which the dual 18 inch monsters are slamming hard

 

[prateekatasniya]

So the Dsi combined with this bass bin, has all the power and control like the expensive consumer subwoofers. Twin woofers working in tandem o produce high SPL, is that the reason for the high sensitivity? Is there a constraint in terms of minimum room size? I am apprehensive it will be too much of a good thing in a 14 x 15 room. Can this play well at low listening levels, sometimes a system optimised for high SPLs might struggle to get out of first gear at low listening levels.

This will not go very low..
For your room size opt for JBLpro 4645c and for low end tactile feel.. use near field subwoofers or tactile bass transducers.

Just out of curiosity. If he had issues in the 120hz-300 hz I don’t think the JBL Would have made much improvements. Guess he had issues with 40-100hz region which the dual 18 inch monsters are slamming hard

Some people consider 40-100hz as mid bass.. misnomer.

 

[avtar2008]

Use crown DSi for such applications..
XLS has no on board dsp ( by this I mean it just has a crossover, DSi series has 10 band parametric EQ) @ssf

does dsi have same level of power output and sound quality as xls?

 

[Love4sound]

Some people consider 40-100hz as mid bass.. misnomer.

Yeah noticed. I am also not very clear on this. As far as I know anything below 80 is low bass. The heavy action sequences where bass hits or slams you in your face are in the 20-50 region. There was an episode in Home theatre guru busting the myths on mid bass or the chest slam bass. He also played some scenes using RTA in rew to check where the chest slam bass resides.

 

[RajithKumar]

I guess the OP is mentioning about the chest slam .As said above by Naveen,Home Theater gurus have a video about this in one of his episode.
IMO these dual 18" JBL pro sub with SVS pb 2000 is not a Apple to apple comparison. Both are at different league.
The dual 18" JBL pro subs are mostly used in Commercial Theaters and Mini Theaters which are designed for higher SPL to cover a huge space.
I have heard 18" JBL pro subs ( single driver). It's very good one for the price. It may not dig very deeper ,but the bass output it delivers is awesome( say > 25 hz ) like commercial theaters. It gives you the right chest slam once proper intergration is done.
Only downside I felt is ,It lacks bit of refinement like high end HT series sub ,also you may need to have big space to accommodate it.One more thing at higher volumes ,prolonged listening may not be suitable for all.

 

[ssf]

20 Hz - 80 Hz Low Bass - First and second Octave
80 Hz - 320 Hz Upper Bass - Third and Fourth Octave
320 Hz - 2,560 Hz - Mid range Fifth, sixth and seventh Octaves
2,560 Hz - 5,120 Hz - Upper Mid range - Eight Octave
5,120 Hz - 20,000 Hz - Treble - Ninth and tenth Octave

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/gustafson/FILM170B.S05/film 170B[S05] files/frequency handout.pdf

I have heard these speakers or something very similar to these at my friends dedicated 30+ seating Home Theater room. Huge professional cinema speakers installed behind the fixed screen. Typical theater layout Only the surround speakers could be seen. Sounded like a theater Not the last word in clarity and bass depth but big sound.

 

[annapl]

I guess the OP is mentioning about the chest slam .As said above by Naveen,Home Theater gurus have a video about this in one of his episode.
IMO these dual 18" JBL pro sub with SVS pb 2000 is not a Apple to apple comparison. Both are at different league.
The dual 18" JBL pro subs are mostly used in Commercial Theaters and Mini Theaters which are designed for higher SPL to cover a huge space.
I have heard 18" JBL pro subs ( single driver). It's very good one for the price. It may not dig very deeper ,but the bass output it delivers is awesome( say > 25 hz ) like commercial theaters. It gives you the right chest slam once proper intergration is done.
Only downside I felt is ,It lacks bit of refinement like high end HT series sub ,also you may need to have big space to accommodate it.One more thing at higher volumes ,prolonged listening may not be suitable for all.

i have listened to it for long time and i didn't feel any discomfort overall a good performer
if u have a big dedicated rooms u can consider this subs...

 

[ssf]

.

 

[RajithKumar]

i have listened to it for long time and i didn't feel any discomfort overall a good performer
if u have a big dedicated rooms u can consider this subs...

Good .Yes lucky you are Annamalai...Enjoy the sub.

 

[prateekatasniya]

does dsi have same level of power output and sound quality as xls?

Dsi is better than XLS.
Dsi power rating is continuous power, XLS -burst power.

 

[Kiran_B]

This is the Correct question to ask...
There are few Conflicting opinions but a Frequency Range Between 120hz - 300hz is mostly accepted as Mid Bass ; most of the Musical bass resides in this range. Correct me if Wrong. The Tower Speakers with 8" or Larger woofers are quite popular because they give the required Oomph to this Range.

@OP My Question is Why Would you buy a Subwoofer for Midbass (that too ported one for Music) ? Subwoofer as the name suggests should Cater well to Subwoofer Frequencies, Rest should be handled by LCR etc, There's Subwoofer selection tool on SVS website, use it to buy the correct subwoofer matching with your LCR speakers. I'm not a fan of any brand. I have used many Subwoofer in Last 10 years, but I keep coming back to this brand for mostly HT applications.
Anyways, Congratulations for the JBL Subwoofer, it Sure looks massive, as long as you are happy nothing else matters! (kindly refrain from making sweeping generalizations).

You are almost correct regarding midbass. There is a slight conflict, some consider midbass is 100-300hz. So it's the responsibility of speaker to reproduce the mentioned frequencies.
I always turn off my three subwoofers while listening to music, it's again subjective, but to my ears it sounds beautiful.

I guess the OP is mentioning about the chest slam .As said above by Naveen,Home Theater gurus have a video about this in one of his episode.
IMO these dual 18" JBL pro sub with SVS pb 2000 is not a Apple to apple comparison. Both are at different league.
The dual 18" JBL pro subs are mostly used in Commercial Theaters and Mini Theaters which are designed for higher SPL to cover a huge space.
I have heard 18" JBL pro subs ( single driver). It's very good one for the price. It may not dig very deeper ,but the bass output it delivers is awesome( say > 25 hz ) like commercial theaters. It gives you the right chest slam once proper intergration is done.
Only downside I felt is ,It lacks bit of refinement like high end HT series sub ,also you may need to have big space to accommodate it.One more thing at higher volumes ,prolonged listening may not be suitable for all.

I agree with you, these subs are meant to produce high SPL between 30 and 100hz at the cost of distortion. From Home Theatre point of view distortion will kill the beauty of bass again it's a personal preference. Once anyone get used to low distortion levels they never like the mentioned JBL sub in HT environment.

 

[prateekatasniya]

I agree with you, these subs are meant to produce high SPL between 30 and 100hz at the cost of distortion. From Home Theatre point of view distortion will kill the beauty of bass again it's a personal preference. Once anyone get used to low distortion levels they never like the mentioned JBL sub in HT environment.

This isn't true..
These pro cinema subs will provide the cleanest bass in its frequency range for the asking price.
What they sacrifice is low end.

Why will they distort? Can you explain?

And they have a capacity of above 125db.
Home usage will be under 115db ... So one can expect super crisp and clean bass for the money spent. Home audio subs are no match to it in this aspect unless one is spending big money.

Thanks to @annapl to bring up this topic.. but yeah.. if he would have been soft and polite it could have helped a lot more people.

Things which matter in a sub performance.

Impulse response
Frequency response
SPL
Group delay
Distortion

Add to it if I have missed something.

 

[ssf]

When I was at my friend's place, he played a few movie clips very loud. . Big impact, both visual and sonic. No distortion.

 

[RajithKumar]

I agree with you, these subs are meant to produce high SPL between 30 and 100hz at the cost of distortion. From Home Theatre point of view distortion will kill the beauty of bass again it's a personal preference. Once anyone get used to low distortion levels they never like the mentioned JBL sub in HT environment.

No Kiran, there is no distortion.

 

[kapvin]

Totally agree with your point of view Drkrack. A sub's job is to produce the lower frequencies which the LCR cannot. If a subwoofer is supposed to produce the midbass in the 120hz -300hz region, then won't it sound directional ?

In the context of Subs, generally accepted terms are 50hz and below are deep bass, 50hz to 120hz is mid bass and 120 to about 300hz is upper bass (which tends to get localised)

Also I believe @OP is right, most commercial home subs are tuned for max low extension and as result sag a bit in the above mentioned midbass zone. unfortunately those are the frequencies that give the Slam to the chest and also are responsible for what british magazines call "fast bass/ punchy bass"

Most pro audio subs are "over motored" so High Qms and low Qts and very tight punchy sounds. as a consequence, that absolute deep bass which the SVS might deliver would definitely not be present in huge quantities despite twin 18" subs.

if someone is going in for a custom room, I would almost always recommend they also do a custom sub build for the room. (one can take care of a lot of issues at the design stage itself)


Edit: if one wants to nitpick is 63hz and below for deep bass. and 31hz and below for sub bass. AFAIK no musical instrument other than the Organ has fundamentals below 31hz.

also find attached the CEA methodology for measuring subs and defining bass

 

[Nitin K]

In the context of Subs, generally accepted terms are 50hz and below are deep bass, 50hz to 120hz is mid bass and 120 to about 300hz is upper bass (which tends to get localised)

Also I believe @OP is right, most commercial home subs are tuned for max low extension and as result sag a bit in the above mentioned midbass zone. unfortunately those are the frequencies that give the Slam to the chest and also are responsible for what british magazines call "fast bass/ punchy bass"

Most pro audio subs are "over motored" so High Qms and low Qts and very tight punchy sounds. as a consequence, that absolute deep bass which the SVS might deliver would definitely not be present in huge quantities despite twin 18" subs.

if someone is going in for a custom room, I would almost always recommend they also do a custom sub build for the room. (one can take care of a lot of issues at the design stage itself)


Edit: if one wants to nitpick is 63hz and below for deep bass. and 31hz and below for sub bass. AFAIK no musical instrument other than the Organ has fundamentals below 31hz.

also find attached the CEA methodology for measuring subs and defining bass

Thanks a lot Kapvin for clarifying the same in so much detail as there are a lot of conflicting threads pertaining to the frequency range for midbass which seemed a bit confusing.
But I don't seem to understand why many expect midbass from a subwoofer when it is supposed to produce only the lowermost frequencies.

 

[kapvin]

Thanks a lot Kapvin for clarifying the same in so much detail as there are a lot of conflicting threads pertaining to the frequency range for midbass which seemed a bit confusing.
But I don't seem to understand why many expect midbass from a subwoofer when it is supposed to produce only the lowermost frequencies.

Your question is valid, and a literal definition of Subwoofer should be to handle Sub-bass not handled by regular full range speaker. so upto 31hz, or at most upto 63hz.

However, with Lifestyle speakers and smaller mains speakers with more limited bass extension, the subwoofer definition has expanded to include all non-localisable bass (upto 120hz or so) or even localisable bass if you look at bose AM5 subs. this is really useful if one has dinky 2ways, because the speakers sound so much cleaner in the midrange, once the bass duties are removed.

Now even the THX specs call for main speaker extension upto 80hz and subs to handle all below that. (any THX expert can weigh in here to provide more clarity) Since sub to main crossovers are typically 2nd order to aid integration (12Db/octave) it is useful for a sub to have a clean response all the way to 160hz.