The effect of cables - A sane debate

[keith_correa]

Minimize skin effect: you size the wire such that there's no waste of the inner core.

http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/SkinEffect/Skin-Effect-Calculator.phtml

 

[prem]

If any of you’ll is looking for a scientifically designed speaker cable, look up Analysis oval cable. NASA, Boeing etc use their cables for transmission.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Anyone tried braided insulated copper wires as speaker cables?

 

[jls001]

If any of you’ll is looking for a scientifically designed speaker cable, look up Analysis oval cable. NASA, Boeing etc use their cables for transmission.

Please try and let us know

 

[jls001]

BTW which cables did you use to double your ICs ?

Source to buffer: 2 pairs of Belden 8402 cables
Buffer to power amp: 2 pairs of Helusound AES DMX cable inserted into single REAN RCA plug.
Power amp to speaker: one Evidence Audio speaker cable and an Oyaide Across 2000 speaker cable.

After listening to more recordings I'm not too happy with the way the bass sounds. When time permits I will relook my equipment footers. I probably need to reduce damping somewhere.

 

[prem]

jls001, at this point I am off the cable merry go round

 

[keith_correa]

Anyone tried braided insulated copper wires as speaker cables?

Insulated? Naah! I nevah, nevah use insulated wire.

 

[Hari Iyer]

I have a couple of (4 to be precise) 220v-12V - !A transformers xzlvaged couple of years ago from my Halogen lamps, and will DIY a isolation transformer by connecting them back to back. There could be some core losses due to two device, but will help me first to test the benefit of isolation transformer for my CD player and DAC. Also have a 5A ckt breaker to take care of in rush current.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Please try and let us know

The oval 12 speaker cable has some kind of braided copper wire with some custom inter-weaving as per the image.

 

[prem]

Yogibear, it’s funny but I have experienced directionality with my previous cables which were from Acoustic System.

 

[prem]

Yogibear, I clearly experienced it. One way sounded clearly better than other. It was very obvious.

Ditto with audiophile fuses also. It’s directional

 

[Hari Iyer]

And I don't get the directional usage of any cable. Do electrons love to travel more in one particular direction ?

Yes, if the characteristics impedance of the output and input match the electrons do not reflect or travel back to source. Matching CI will be a challenge for all output and input devices. Hence it's suggest to atleast match the input impedance of devices in general.

Electrons love to travel in that direction, where it's flow is not impeded.

Current loves to flow in that direction where the resistance against it's flow is minimum.

 

[jls001]

And I don't get the directional usage of any cable. Do electrons love to travel more in one particular direction ?

Apparently there are roadsigns visible to electrons only

On a more serious note some say that there's a difference between using the wire in the direction of draw of the wire. The labelling on the insulation of the wire is usually in the direction of draw of the wire.

 

[Kannan]

Directional cable do not improve on sound as compared to bidirectional (just for namesake).
But if company marks its cable as directional, then it has to be used in that fashion.

I remember reading it has to with grounding in which the shield is grounded only at one end that goes to the amp.

Also this concept of directional cable by design should not apply to XLR (balanced) cables, but only to phono

 

[prem]

Acoustic System Liveline cables are unshielded solid core cables

 

[jls001]

I remember reading it has to with grounding in which the shield is grounded only at one end that goes to the amp.

That's meant for breaking ground loops but it ends up making the cable directional because shield lead must be grounded only at the sending end.

 

[Hari Iyer]

In my telephone wire IC nothing is shielded but twisted core. Shielded cables exhibit higher capacitance compared to unsheided cables of the same length

 

[Kannan]

I have

In my telephone wire IC nothing is shielded but twisted core. Shielded cables exhibit higher capacitance compared to unsheided cables of the same length

Shielding is important for rejecting noise.

The specs of the cable I am using as given by the company.
Quote
" Our recommended cable for line-level unbalanced analog audio is our own LC-1 low-capacitance audio cable. This cable is particularly designed with line-level analog audio in mind -- it offers extremely low (12.2 pF/ft) capacitance for level frequency response, and heavy double copper braid shielding for maximum noise rejection at audio frequencies. We terminate it with our own Taversoe brand RCA connectors."Unquote

So I guess it has to be a proper combination of low capacitance and good shielding so that the values are well below the tolerance limits

 

[Hari Iyer]

I have
Shielding is important for rejecting noise.

The specs of the cable I am using as given by the company.
Quote
" Our recommended cable for line-level unbalanced analog audio is our own LC-1 low-capacitance audio cable. This cable is particularly designed with line-level analog audio in mind -- it offers extremely low (12.2 pF/ft) capacitance for level frequency response, and heavy double copper braid shielding for maximum noise rejection at audio frequencies. We terminate it with our own Taversoe brand RCA connectors."Unquote

So I guess it has to be a proper combination of low capacitance and good shielding so that the values are well below the tolerance limits

Ok, my 1 feet telephone cable has a capacitance of 22pF/feet as measured by my HTC LCR meter which i am using from my DAC output to preamp input.

 

[keith_correa]

<snip>Drawing cable dictates direction of use, sounds hard for me to understand. How does it justify different core thickness if the cable is single core AND what if it is multicore / has strands ? In case of multicore cable, did the manufacturer took enough care to make sure, each strand/core was aligned well to make the whole lot of cable ?

If I am missing anything, please correct me.

If a cable sounds better in one direction then it does not mean it sounds better than any other non directional cable or simple multicore cable. I am more inclined to think that its a marketing trick.

Of course it's marketing BS, but you are not allowed to say that in any audio forum because there will ALWAYS be people who will say - "Science, schmience be damned! I hear it so it is true!" Then there will be those that say "Science hasn't evolved yet to have learnt to measure what needs to be measured".
I'll tell you what science hasn't learnt what to measure yet - the auditory signal that comes out of the ear and into the brain. And also how the brain interprets that. Both being flawed organs!

Now before you flame me - I fall in a weird camp. I can train my brain to believe what I want it to believe, if I do it long and hard and my brain always obeys! And I know it. If I want it to hear a difference, it will and it does - hey, I heard that tinkle with this cable, it wasn't there with the other cable! That's why, I don't believe the differences I hear with the software that I create. I will ALWAYS believe that it makes a difference.