The effect of cables - A sane debate

Audio Technica AT-LP60X Fully Automatic Belt-Drive Turntable
Hi all,

In my experience, I found that Chord Crimson ICs were better than MX( Indian) ICs , as also Chord Silver screen Speaker cables to be better than Monster Cables. So I settled for the Chord brand of cables. Once I had the chance to listen to QED ICs in my set-up and it sounded a bit better and sweet in my set up, of course it was costing 3x times of the Chord Crimson Plus.

I would suggest to keep the cable cost @ 10-15% of the system cost.

Just my Rs.2/-.

N.Murali
 
Investing in cables paid less dividend to me than investing in room treatment. I spend Rs.500/- in adding a sound absorbent panel to tackle only the first early reflection of my left speakers and it made me difference of night and day.

I have done similar experiments replacing my diy cables with expensive monster cables borrowed from friends but sadly it did not make any impact. :mad:
 
Hari Iyer said:
Investing in cables paid less dividend to me than investing in room treatment. I spend Rs.500/- in adding a sound absorbent panel to tackle only the first early reflection of my left speakers and it made me difference of night and day.

I have done similar experiments replacing my diy cables with expensive monster cables borrowed from friends but sadly it did not make any impact. :mad:
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I am in 100% agreement with you.

A very controversial topic to touch, but I would like to put my thoughts here.
Based on my limited understanding, I am convinced that a well built cable is more than enough and that need not cost a lot. In the past, I was not toeing this line, but I learnt it now :ohyeah:.

At the same time, we also see people (believers) claiming that they are able to hear sonic differences between different cables. Should we simply dismiss their claims ? Certainly, I will not question (and also have no right to do so) their honesty in making such claims. Of course, one can hear the differences in the sonic character if the hearing tests are not done in a well controlled and level matched environment. They may be actually correct in their claims, but it will always remain as "may be" unless some objective measurements/tests done in a controlled environment claim that CABLES certainly make difference due to so and so scientific reasons. If not level matched carefully at the input stage , even a .2 or .3 dB differences in the loudness can be picked up as a difference in the sonic character and that is how our human brain works.

Again, I am not blaming the believers, but I will certainly blame the cable manufacturers in not being transparent. Ideally, they should subject their products to objective testing. Do we always need to be objective and not subjective ? Enjoying music should/will always remain subjective, but evaluating an equipment/cable, claiming to be of high fidelity, should remain highly objective. Objective evaluation is not an easy job for many of us and that is where the manufacturers should help. They should be honest enough to publish their test results got from the objective testing. Unfortunately, we all are left at the mercy of the manufacturers and succumb to their marketing claims.

This is my point - One should remain subjective in general and that is what makes one to have his/her own identity. At the same time, one should be highly objective as well before giving his/her's hard earned money to a commercial organization and buying into their marketing claims. They are taking our hard money for commercial reasons and that is very much reasonable, but should we not objectively see their marketing claims rather than blindly believing them ?

There may be a day in future where the commercial organizations (who claim to produce hi-fidelity cables) provide scientific data in support of their marketing claims. Until then, I will remain in the non-believers camp. Of course, we have democracy and choose to be in any of the camps (and we have polite disagreements :) )
 
Priority spending is important in audio. Spending wisely within budget on areas where you get max bang for the buck is common sense. But this has nothing to do with the technical question which has to do with relevance of appropriate cables in a system.
 
Cables do sound different all you need is the gear that can differentiate and right pair of ears for that. I also came from the same school which thought cables to be snake oil but now having experimented I found leave alone interconnects and speaker cables even power cables make a difference!!!!
 
Once everything else (components, treatment etc) are sorted out, then cables (power, interconnect, speaker) will make a difference. This may not be proportional to the cost and therefore, sought only by perfectionists who have the moolah.
 
I think the Amplifiers and the Speakers should be very sensitive to detect the difference between different cables. Most detect very subtle difference.
 
Dear All,

I am in search of a good subwoofer cable for my AV Receiver. Have bought Blaupunkt GTB 8200A active sub recently and planning to use it in home as well as road trips when needed (with less luggage). Is bluerigger good ? are there any shops in south bangalore that I can visit and buy immediately.
Also, need your advise as the subwoofer (active) expects 2 rca inputs and the subwoofer output has only one rca point.
 
I was using the stock speaker wires, and recently changed to branded quality ones. I was able to recognize the difference instantly and I felt the speakers sounded better as I moved to new ones. Later I identified that the stock wires were of different lengths and hence speakers sounded differently. When I changed to better wires, I used same length for all and speakers started to behave better. I am not sure whether the speaker wires made any difference, but using same length of wires for each speaker really make a difference.
 
though i do believe in the efficacy of well made cables and own several branded speaker/power/usb cables, still the psychological aspect of this game is also very important imo. what i mean is, when i put on a branded cable which is supposed to enhance the sound, then i try to hear the difference. so i listen harder. listening harder makes one listen to things one did not consciously heard before. again as noted first, i believe that cables can make a difference. but the belief that cables can make a difference can also make a difference :-)
 
nandac said:
though i do believe in the efficacy of well made cables and own several branded speaker/power/usb cables, still the psychological aspect of this game is also very important imo. what i mean is, when i put on a branded cable which is supposed to enhance the sound, then i try to hear the difference. so i listen harder. listening harder makes one listen to things one did not consciously heard before. again as noted first, i believe that cables can make a difference. but the belief that cables can make a difference can also make a difference :-)
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Absolutely second that! Nicely put.
 
Once you compare and select the best cable,avoid listening system for atleast 4 days.lf you really discover the difference in sound then only consider it as the best . :)
 
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nandac said:
though i do believe in the efficacy of well made cables and own several branded speaker/power/usb cables, still the psychological aspect of this game is also very important imo. what i mean is, when i put on a branded cable which is supposed to enhance the sound, then i try to hear the difference. so i listen harder. listening harder makes one listen to things one did not consciously heard before. again as noted first, i believe that cables can make a difference. but the belief that cables can make a difference can also make a difference :-)
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So the trick is to "listen harder" all the time. If you are into this hobby of trying to extract the best musical realism from your audio equipment than building your ear experience is top priority. Listening to lots of different equipment and configuration, attending concerts particularly ones where the instruments and artist are not amplified (yes small settings) will help build your ability to discriminate so you don't have to "believe to believe".

While you'll never be perfect (no pro basketball player makes every 3 point shot) you'll get pretty darn good and will build your ear memory for how things sounds so you can objectively compare.

Anyone who "believes to believe" is a charlatan in this hobby as with any other hobby. There are wine charlatans who want to buy the well rated wines but have no understanding of taste. There are lots of charlatans who chase the latest audio product with a great review.

On a good audio system (entry high-end on up) cables make significant differences. However, its clear from reading most of these posts most folks have no ear experience and have never heard a high end audio system.
 
It's good and effective till a point and not at Jorma Design Money. $20,000 for a pair of speakers cables is plain blasphemy. A good high quality copper / silver with proper shielding and connectors that's about it. You wanna spend over $1000 over speaker cables and inter connects? Welcome to the Snake Oil Club then.
 
rsud said:
So the trick is to "listen harder" all the time. If you are into this hobby of trying to extract the best musical realism from your audio equipment than building your ear experience is top priority. Listening to lots of different equipment and configuration, attending concerts particularly ones where the instruments and artist are not amplified (yes small settings) will help build your ability to discriminate so you don't have to "believe to believe".

While you'll never be perfect (no pro basketball player makes every 3 point shot) you'll get pretty darn good and will build your ear memory for how things sounds so you can objectively compare.

Anyone who "believes to believe" is a charlatan in this hobby as with any other hobby. There are wine charlatans who want to buy the well rated wines but have no understanding of taste. There are lots of charlatans who chase the latest audio product with a great review.

On a good audio system (entry high-end on up) cables make significant differences. However, its clear from reading most of these posts most folks have no ear experience and have never heard a high end audio system.
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Exactly :) If you believe that your cables sound better, they will sound better! It is like believe in existence of god. Nobody can prove or disprove the existence of god....but it does not matter if you believe


One more thing....musical concert sound is horrible when compared to the quality when played on a decent stereo setup!
 
What nandac quoted is expectation bias in scientific terms. That is why in scientific study you use blinding, double blinding or use of placebo arms.

Both digital and analog cables make a difference when you are comparing pathetically made ones to decent ones. This is from my personnel experiences. I have had two HDMI cables from belkin and bluerigger. The former always had trouble connecting my avr to my projector. So digital may be a all or none thing but a glitch prone cable will make the picture or sound go haywire. Similar is the case with optical.

The most differences in sound quality is in cables which carry low level signals from pickups, cassette deck heads etc as they are prone to pickup signals from the surroundings. Next is the rca interconnects between pre and power sections. The we'll made ones do sound better and last better due to good thickness of the conductor and shielding as well as as great terminations.

Speaker cables if small in length or thick enough make the least amount of difference. You can use the thickest you can afford 12 14 or 16 Awg and you wont hear much of a difference. I have read an article we three experts were made to differentate between a 2000 dollar cable and a aluminium coat hanger in a blind test and they failed miserably.

Saying this the differences will also be heaRd on decent hifi systems except for electrical pops and when you have decent source material.

So if cost is not a problem a millionaire sold buy the best cables however in the real word cost is almost always a criteria. So for me the most important weak links are the speakers and the source material.

I have not heard any differences in my digital cables except for faulty ones. I have heard a difference between low and high guage speaker cables and subtle differences in interconnects. I have not found any differences in power cables although I mostly use medical grade ones to prevent overloading and heating. On the other hand differentiating 2 speakers blindfolded or a low bitrate mp3 vs cd is a piece of cake.
 
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Hello,

Have come across below article on an audio equip vendor's website while researching for some interconnect cables and speaker wires .
Also wanted to find out the correct speaker wire gauge for a tube gear purchased recently .
Interesting read though . Have come across similar articles else where too further adding to confusion .

https://www.aperionaudio.com/blog/how-to-choose-speaker-wire

Thanks ,
 
In my very recent experience with Turntables, the low capacitance cables connection from the TT to the phono-preamp matters a lot. If the cable capacitance is high there will be a peaking resonance around 17KHz to 18KHz which could be audible as listening fatigue. For other source i dont find much difference due to interconnects IME.
 
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