Tilting speakers upwards or downwards

[mbhangui]

I have this pair of Rti A9 floorstanders. They came with feets with rubber base but also with provision to insert and screw in spikes. Today I while doing some cleaning up of my audio room I found 8 spikes that I had never fitted. So I put on some elbow grease and started fitting the spikes. One of the speaker rear feet the threaded socket had a problem and the spike couldn't screw inside completely. This caused the speaker to slant sideways. To fix this, I inserted a nut to act as washer on all the back feets of both the speakers. Unfortunately I had just 4 pieces of nuts. So to be symmetrical I used the 4 nuts only on the back feets. Now both the speakers are facing downwards at the same angle and I find more life in the sound. It goes without saying I will get another four nuts so that the speakers become horizontal again. But because of this changed dynamics I did a google search on speaker slant and I do find people do that but it is rarely spoken about

Here is a stand that comes with the speakers to make the speakers slant backward at 5degrees.

5° Slant Riser Base For Model Five - KLH (EU) Love Your Music!

The Model Five stands strong on a 5-degree slant riser base made from powder-coated 14-gauge steel. The riser base’s upward angular stance ensures the sound is directed accurately toward the listener, while the steel guarantees it to be a solid and non-resonant speaker base. This base can be...

klhaudio.eu

If you’re looking for a quick and easy fine-tuning technique, try tilting the speakers forward or backward relative to the listening position.

This is a time-honored tweak that not everyone’s familiar with, but it sure works great. The easiest way to do this is by using a CD jewel case under the front of your speaker for tilt back or under the rear of the speaker for tilt-forward. The half inch or so depth of a CD case is about perfect for a tilt change. You can use multiple cases to arrive at your final position.

What you’re doing is aiming the tweeter slightly above or below your ear—off-axis. Tilt back and above your ear will open the soundstage and offer a more airy presentation. Tilt forward and the opposite happens.

Tilt ‘er back – PS Audio

www.psaudio.com

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I've been experimenting with speaker rake angle/tilt over the past few months. In the past, I simply set my stands and speakers level with the floor, as is the typical recommendation in owner manuals. After many listening trials, I've concluded that this parameter can be just as critical as toe-in and wall distance. With my main system speakers, 1/4 of a degree can make a very audible difference, even in bass quality. I'm interested to hear of your experiences with this often neglected variable.

The often neglected tweak: speaker rake angle

I've been experimenting with speaker rake angle/tilt over the past few months. In the past, I simply set my stands and speakers level with the floor,...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

Also my cadence arista speakers the woofer driver is slanted upwards. Has anyone tried slanting the speakers. What are the pros and cons vs a perfectly horizontal placed speakers.

 

[arj]

I guess what slanting does is change the timing between the tweeter and the woofer(s) since they are at different distances from your ear and that my guess is a -ve since speaker baffles are designed for.
The +ve is that it may remove the reflection off the floor to ear which is something which can also be done via a good rug.

 

[mbhangui]

I guess what slanting does is change the timing between the tweeter and the woofer(s) since they are at different distances from your ear and that my guess is a -ve since speaker baffles are designed for.
The +ve is that it may remove the reflection off the floor to ear which is something which can also be done via a good rug.

I do have a rug but what I have done is totally opposite of what most are doing. My speakers are now facing forward down. i.e. the Top is nearer to my ears than the bottom. So actually they are firing towards the floor in a sense. I will do the opposite tomorrow. The speakers are heavy and I will have to lay them down on the floor, interchange the back legs with the front legs (it was the back leg that has a thread problem). But luckily all legs are identical and so they can be interchanged by removing a large screw.

Another guess that I have is, I'm short and the polk speakers are tall. In my sitting position, the tweeter were always above my ears. Now they are probably are more on-axis with my ears.

 

[arj]

I am not sure how that can help especially your speakers as they are electrostatic tweeters..if the difference you hear is due to the angle of dispersion then reducing the toe in might not be a bad option. but at some level you are just going to increase floor reflections.

Personally I would never play around especially with multiple driver speakers ( actually mot even with single drivers). Playing around with toe in is a different matter altogether.

 

[mbhangui]

I am not sure how that can help especially your speakers as they are electrostatic tweeters..if the difference you hear is due to the angle of dispersion then reducing the toe in might not be a bad option. but at some level you are just going to increase floor reflections.

Personally I would never play around especially with multiple driver speakers ( actually mot even with single drivers). Playing around with toe in is a different matter altogether.

No No. This was with my polk RtiA9 speakers. The electrostat speakers came with spikes and are horizontal and I have done nothing with them.

 

[jls001]

I once observed a "pro" setting up a pair of new speakers and he used a spirit level to set the height of the spikes. He also toed them in accurately down to the millimeter. At the time I was mildly amused at what I thought was extreme perfectionism. Much later I also did the leveling for my speakers. My speakers were roughly screwed in without much thought as to whether they were all of the same height (Toe-in was already carefully done). The effect was a much better focused sound.

I also often assisted @prem to set up his speakers. He is an extreme perfectionist when it comes to speaker set up, even using a home made jig to get the distances correct down to +/-1 mm. The funny thing is the relative tonal balance of the bass, midrange and highs change even with 2 mm change. So it is worth leveling one's speakers (or raising the front or the back to change the firing angle to suit how the sound reaches the listener)

 

[mbhangui]

I also often assisted @prem to set up his speakers. He is an extreme perfectionist when it comes to speaker set up, even using a home made jig to get the distances correct down to +/-1 mm. The funny thing is the relative tonal balance of the bass, midrange and highs change even with 2 mm change. So it is worth leveling one's speakers (or raising the front or the back to change the firing angle to suit how the sound reaches the listener)

The OP in this post used a machinist level to tilt the speakers upwards just by 1/4th of a degree and found remarkable improvement.

The often neglected tweak: speaker rake angle

I've been experimenting with speaker rake angle/tilt over the past few months. In the past, I simply set my stands and speakers level with the floor,...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

Currently I have done the opposite, with the speaker facing downwards. I haven't done any leveling using a spirit level. Just tightened the spikes with hand. It is just that the back of the speaker is raised by 5mm due to one nut inserted between the spike and the speaker bottom on the back. Without a machinist level, I guess I will have to learn trigonometry to calculate the angle. It will be pythogoras theorem and I will have to measure the distance between the front and back legs and height of the triangle will be 5mm, length I have to yet measure. Regardless of the actual tilt angle, the result has been phenomenal for me at least. Maybe it is placebo, but I listened to music almost 4 hours at a stretch. Only time will tell. Today or tomorrow I will interchange the back and front legs to make the speaker face upwards, the way everyone has been doing.


This is how the bottom looks like. The nut is visible on the back side (left side in the photo). From the front till the wall, the floor is fully carpeted. So I guess, reflection from the floor will be taken care of.

 

[jls001]

Without a machinist level, I guess I will have to learn trigonometry to calculate the angle.

You can buy a cheap spirit level ("bottle" in Bombay parlance) from most hardware stores. ₹200-250.

 

[mbhangui]

@arj, @jls001 Is it possible that spikes have changed the sound signature and not the angle? Without the spikes the legs sit flat on the floor and the legs have a rubber bottom.

 

[keith_correa]

[Is it possible that spikes have changed the sound signature and not the angle?

You may need to buy a seismometer to objectively determine this.

 

[coaltrain]

This guy is a big proponent of raking the speakers back. An old video that you may find interesting:

 

[jls001]

@arj, @jls001 Is it possible that spikes have changed the sound signature and not the angle? Without the spikes the legs sit flat on the floor and the legs have a rubber bottom.

Yes, spikes change the sound. At the very least it should improve bass definition (not increased quantity of bass but a sense that bass notes sound cleaner and clearer). A cleaned up bass frequency will actually clean up the midrange, and even treble frequencies.

Ideally the spiky end should rest on a small pad so that the floor is not scratched. This "pad" could be 1 rupee coins, or something similar in brass or hardwood like rosewood, teak or ebony or even a Jenga stick. Each material type imparts its sound signature.

Foam or rubber bottom is a big no in my experience.

 

[keith_correa]

There are 2 important things that are happening with a vertical tilt:

1./ You're now listening off axis which will cause a downward tilt to the frequencies handled by the tweeter.

2./ You have changed the acoustic centers of the drivers which were always there but were mitigated in the crossover.

Also:
With a downward tilt there is more floor bounce.

 

[mbhangui]

This guy is a big proponent of raking the speakers back. An old video that you may find interesting:

Still not finished the video, but I just came at point in the video where he says that the sound stage goes wide and much beyond the speaker sides and that's what happened with me yesterday. So I'm able to relate to what he is saying.

 

[arj]

Yes, spikes change the sound. At the very least it should improve bass definition (not increased quantity of bass but a sense that bass notes sound cleaner and clearer). A cleaned up bass frequency will actually clean up the midrange, and even treble frequencies.

Ideally the spiky end should rest on a small pad so that the floor is not scratched. This "pad" could be 1 rupee coins, or something similar in brass or hardwood like rosewood, teak or ebony or even a Jenga stick. Each material type imparts its sound signature.

Foam or rubber bottom is a big no in my experience.

@arj, @jls001 Is it possible that spikes have changed the sound signature and not the angle? Without the spikes the legs sit flat on the floor and the legs have a rubber bottom.

true..if the spike is steel makes sense to put a different material like brass/nickel etc. i dont like Aluminium spikes much.
Soft materials like /Foam and rubber are counter productive to the spike which is mainly to lock the speaker to the floor ( for speakers) unless it is under a much heavier block of stone/steel etc. but its too complex.


if the benefit you are getting is due to the tweeter firing at ear level then do try raising up the speaker equally on all sided as well. Again if it works for you its good but do keep an eye ( ear?) out on the effect on the midrange and high frequencies just to make sure an improvement in staging has not affected anything else.

 

[mbhangui]

true..if the spike is steel makes sense to put a different material like brass/nickel etc. i dont like Aluminium spikes much.
Soft materials like /Foam and rubber are counter productive to the spike which is mainly to lock the speaker to the floor ( for speakers) unless it is under a much heavier block of stone/steel etc. but its too complex.


if the benefit you are getting is due to the tweeter firing at ear level then do try raising up the speaker equally on all sided as well. Again if it works for you its good but do keep an eye ( ear?) out on the effect on the midrange and high frequencies just to make sure an improvement in staging has not affected anything else.

I just tried and replaced the front legs with the back legs and I still get the same dynamics. Now the speaker are tilted backwards (which is the norm I see in various posts). So it is confirmed that it was the spikes that changed the response. Unfortunately I can't level the speakers horizontally because one of the threaded brass insert in the legs has a bad threading and the spike just goes inside 2 turns. I don't think I can get a spare RtiA9 legs to buy easily. So I have done the next best thing. Have a 5mm thick nut on the both the front legs of both the speakers. That way both the speakers are tilted exactly the same.

 

[arj]

My guess is you will get a better results with 4 spikes on a speaker Usually spikes are M8 or M6. just get 8 similar spikes ( eg Soundfoundation has them)

As @jls001 mentioned maximum value is when both speakers are precisely the same..not sure how much you are getting of that with the nuts.

 

[mbhangui]

My guess is you will get a better results with 4 spikes on a speaker Usually spikes are M8 or M6. just get 8 similar spikes ( eg Soundfoundation has them)

As @jls001 mentioned maximum value is when both speakers are precisely the same..not sure how much you are getting of that with the nuts.

My spikes are fine. It is just the hollow threaded brass insert in one of the legs that is bad. So either I have to remove the brass insert (which looks difficult without breaking the leg) or try to get one leg. The Rti A9 have 4 legs. One part of the leg is bolted to the speaker base. Another part of the leg has a threaded insert into which the spikes screw into.

 

[arj]

My spikes are fine. It is just the hollow threaded brass insert in one of the legs that is bad. So either I have to remove the brass insert (which looks difficult without breaking the leg) or try to get one leg. The Rti A9 have 4 legs. One part of the leg is bolted to the speaker base. Another part of the leg has a threaded insert into which the spikes screw into.

This one ?

 

[mbhangui]

This one ?
View attachment 70010

Yes