Tube DAC options

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Barring a highend Lampizator Atlantic or something, most tube DACs(AMR 777, Mhdt hawana, Thyaga V2, AudioNote 1.1x), I felt are a trade off. The tradeoff of The HF rounding, Contracted Soundstage and slightly increased noise floor would always put me off from buying one. But the DENSITY of the sound (or analogish feel) of Good Tube DACs (Lampizator or AMR) would make analog setups costing more than Rs 10L run for their money. If that's what you are looking for, then you wouldn't disappointed, but I doubt any tube dac under 2L will be able to achieve that level of performance.

But there are many small time boutique tube DACs Manfactures in Europe and USA which are relatively cheap (Under 2k USD) and could be good enough. You should be searching for them. Anyways combining a DAC and preamp in a same chassis hasn't worked for me ever ( Other than AMR DP 777), so I'd advice to go for 2 box solution, if you could share rest of your chain it'll be easier to suggest something else altogether.

I would fully agree with the above suggestion to keep the preamp separate if space is not an issue. Every preamp adds its own subtlety to the mix. And once one finds that preamp, it is a keeper for life. We can change power amps, dacs and speakers, but once we are fully aware of the sonic signature of the preamp, it is easier to decide on the other bits. Almost all the dacs I've had, came with some kind of volume control, and a few with a fully analogue preamp section. But none of them match the sonics of a dedicated well implemented preamp in my experience.

 

[Analogous]

Front End -

Front end: Tidal/Apple Musis/Amazon Music from DMP A6 ME
DAC: Either Weiss Minvera or DMP A6 ME.
IC:, Mogami 2497
Amplifier: Cayin A-88T MK2 (Power stage: EL 34C PS Vane (OR NOS Mullards XF2) and Driver/preamp stage: PS Vane UK6NS7 (OR Tungsol 6SN7 GTB New production) and Tungsol NOS 6SL7GT Smoked glass)
Speaker wire- Tellurium Q Black 2
Speaker: Dali Oberon 5.
Power Cables from Sound Foundation (SF Ultima Carbon) with the power base.

In stock: Sovtek KT88 Power Tubes. Boyyurange EL34 Push Pull amp with Mullard NOS Rectifier and Russian 6H1 preamp tubes.

I have no SS amp at the moment.

I would have thought the Weiss DAC would do it very nicely?
Do consider addressing / exploring speaker placement options and room acoustic adjustments first

 

[reignofchaos]

@AP@1992 : I think your bottleneck is not the source or your amp. Your bottleneck is the speaker which is rather entry level. Look at upgrading that before anything else.

Look for a good tube friendly speaker before buying anything else.

 

[Anshul_J]

@AP@1992 I have a MHDT Orchid dac, I am thinking of selling it. Let me know if you are interested.

 

[AP@1992]

@AP@1992 : I think your bottleneck is not the source or your amp. Your bottleneck is the speaker which is rather entry level. Look at upgrading that before anything else.

Look for a good tube friendly speaker before buying anything else.

I am open for suggestions.

However, having auditioned a plethora of speakers under 2 lakhs in the last two years, I am still hard pressed to find a speaker with the natural tone of Oberon 5 and has this unbelievable balance between resolution, clarity and musicality. Also, Oberon 5, though entry level, scales with higher end component.

 

[AP@1992]

I would have thought the Weiss DAC would do it very nicely?
Do consider addressing / exploring speaker placement options and room acoustic adjustments first

Weiss DAC is nice and it does the job. It's more of convenience. I have always longed for a tube preamplifier to give me some flexibility and in that specific context wanted to see if I can merge a good DAC with it. So I don't have one more set of electronic, wires etc.

 

[AP@1992]

@AP@1992 I have a MHDT Orchid dac, I am thinking of selling it. Let me know if you are interested.

Will DM you and we can take it forward.

 

[Analogous]

Weiss DAC is nice and it does the job. It's more of convenience. I have always longed for a tube preamplifier to give me some flexibility and in that specific context wanted to see if I can merge a good DAC with it. So I don't have one more set of electronic, wires etc.

In my limited experience I found defining the sonic attributes or characteristics of the sound I was seeking to be the most challenging part of the quest.
Without being able to define this I spent too much buying and trying (as we don’t have the generous return policies as in the US and Western European countries).
Once you have a good understanding of what is lacking (sound wise, user friendliness) you may be better positioned to identify which part of your chain to target. I would recommend room acoustics, your music choices and speaker placement be included in this list to consider.
As we all are aware in the healing sciences and art, an accurate diagnosis will guide the treatment plan and outcome.
You already have a good tube amplifier, so would you be seeking more tube characteristics? In which case a 300B or a 2A3 or a 45 design might be worth exploring. Of course this would also mean higher efficiency speakers to match them.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I am open for suggestions.

However, having auditioned a plethora of speakers under 2 lakhs in the last two years, I am still hard pressed to find a speaker with the natural tone of Oberon 5 and has this unbelievable balance between resolution, clarity and musicality. Also, Oberon 5, though entry level, scales with higher end component.

The room and the speakers are the foundations of any system. And if your speakers and system as a whole, can make you happy, or emotional, or sad, as the artist intended....then it is mission accomplished.

And if you have that with your current speakers, knowing how difficult it has been to achieve that happy marriage, I really would'nt fiddle with that.

But then bored boys, need new toys right . So yeah... go ahead and indulge yourselves a new tube dac...flirt with the girls....but dont divorce the wife

 

[Analogous]

The room and the speakers are the foundations of any system. And if your speakers and system as a whole, can make you happy, or emotional, or sad, as the artist intended....then it is mission accomplished.

And if you have that with your current speakers, knowing how difficult it has been to achieve that happy marriage, I really would'nt fiddle with that.

But then bored boys, need new toys right . So yeah... go ahead and indulge yourselves a new tube dac...flirt with the girls....but dont divorce the wife

Slippery slope this!

 

[AP@1992]

In my limited experience I found defining the sonic attributes or characteristics of the sound I was seeking to be the most challenging part of the quest.
Without being able to define this I spent too much buying and trying (as we don’t have the generous return policies as in the US and Western European countries).
Once you have a good understanding of what is lacking (sound wise, user friendliness) you may be better positioned to identify which part of your chain to target. I would recommend room acoustics, your music choices and speaker placement be included in this list to consider.
As we all are aware in the healing sciences and art, an accurate diagnosis will guide the treatment plan and outcome.
You already have a good tube amplifier, so would you be seeking more tube characteristics? In which case a 300B or a 2A3 or a 45 design might be worth exploring. Of course this would also mean higher efficiency speakers to match them.

Completely agree with you.

The sound I am after is slightly mellow, rolled off treble and sufficient separation of instruments, detail and somewhat agile base (since bass keeps the rhythm, slowness effects the pace). Midrange bloom and forwardness is also to my liking.

This caters of much of my music listening that i.e. Jazz, Ghazal, soft pop, qawwali etc mostly to do with vocal and instrument works.

I have identified EL34 is my power tube.

Preamp of choice is 6SN7 (Tungsol 6SN7 GTB is my fav but with a very detailed and analytical source/DAC I prefer UK 6NS7 PSvane.

DAC- Love Weiss. Just masterfully balanced. Don't know how they do it though. However, I have also noticed
that DMP A6 ME's slightly analytical presentation pairs well with a slight darkness of sound produced by EL34.

Speakers: Limited experience. With whatever I have heard, sound signature of Oberon 5 is to my liking and ameliorates the experience.

The problem is the current combo I have is very limited and specific to a particular genre of music. I play anything else, I feel limited. This has peaked my interest for searching for a balancing act i.e. SS power amps and Tube preamplifier. I haven't personally heard one. In this regard and whilst going separates and only with a view to reduce equipment, I started this thread to understand whether a DAC can be implemented well with a tube preamp.

 

[AP@1992]

The room and the speakers are the foundations of any system. And if your speakers and system as a whole, can make you happy, or emotional, or sad, as the artist intended....then it is mission accomplished.

And if you have that with your current speakers, knowing how difficult it has been to achieve that happy marriage, I really would'nt fiddle with that.

But then bored boys, need new toys right . So yeah... go ahead and indulge yourselves a new tube dac...flirt with the girls....but dont divorce the wife

We all get bored and we all need new toys

 

[Nitin K]

This has peaked my interest for searching for a balancing act i.e. SS power amps and Tube preamplifier. I haven't personally heard one. In this regard and whilst going separates and only with a view to reduce equipment, I started this thread to understand whether a DAC can be implemented well with a tube preamp.

If one of your aim is to reduce equipment in the chain but yet you need both then try some hybrid amplifiers from Unison Research, Rogue and Vincent.
You can have a demo of Vincent with Dali Oberon at Watthifi/Sound by design at Gurugram in case if you happen to travel there. In Mumbai Accoustic Den at Goregoan East is the seller, but demo is not possible there.

 

[yogibear]

One box solution. 7 kg weight. Remote controlled volume control. Add speakers in the front and a CDP or an optical music source and you are good….

 

[drkrack]

Cayin A-88T MK2 (Power stage: EL 34C PS Vane (OR NOS Mullards XF2) and Driver/preamp stage: PS Vane UK6NS7 (OR Tungsol 6SN7 GTB New production) and Tungsol NOS 6SL7GT Smoked glass)
Speaker wire- Tellurium Q Black 2
Speaker: Dali Oberon 5.

The Tube integrated Amp is rated maximum of 45wpc in ultralinear mode, whereas Dali Oberon Rates Amperage requirements as 30 to 150wpc.
I think Your 88db Speakers are not being driven with enough power. Your DACs are fine I suppose, getting a good powerful tube or SS power Amplifier may be able to get best out of your speakers.
Alternatively I'd have considered upgrading speakers to something like AudioNote with better sensitivity, I'm afraid even the Best tube DAC may not be able to quench your expectations. I've tried Cayin 88t with Harbeth P3ESR for a weekend without any desirable sonic attribute due to adding a tube amp, but when I added back my Gryphon 250w SS amp things were much better.

 

[AP@1992]

The Tube integrated Amp is rated maximum of 45wpc in ultralinear mode, whereas Dali Oberon Rates Amperage requirements as 30 to 150wpc.
I think Your 88db Speakers are not being driven with enough power. Your DACs are fine I suppose, getting a good powerful tube or SS power Amplifier may be able to get best out of your speakers.
Alternatively I'd have considered upgrading speakers to something like AudioNote with better sensitivity, I'm afraid even the Best tube DAC may not be able to quench your expectations. I've tried Cayin 88t with Harbeth P3ESR for a weekend without any desirable sonic attribute due to adding a tube amp, but when I added back my Gryphon 250w SS amp things were much better.

Never felt out of power. KT88 installed with some NOS 6sl7 and 6nS7 in Cayin A-88T Mk2, drive the Dali with all slam and puch. However the mid-range colour and smoothness was absent.

EL34 with assortment of finest preamps tubes I can practically obtain is driving Dali very well. Never go beyond 9 o'clock. My room is also very small.

Issue is a the balancing act which many is say is tricky.

Definitely looking forward to SS Monoblocks with a a preamp.

Will share when that happens.

 

[drkrack]

Never felt out of power. KT88 installed with some NOS 6sl7 and 6nS7 in Cayin A-88T Mk2, drive the Dali with all slam and puch. However the mid-range colour and smoothness was absent.

EL34 with assortment of finest preamps tubes I can practically obtain is driving Dali very well. Never go beyond 9 o'clock. My room is also very small.

Issue is a the balancing act which many is say is tricky.

Definitely looking forward to SS Monoblocks with a a preamp.

Will share when that happens.

That's good, but try with a Loaned Powerful Integrated Amplifier or Pre Power setup and see before shelling big bucks

 

[yogibear]

F2a monoblocks, SE amps, 5 watts per channel, driving my 88dB bookshelves at 40% volume can drive you out of the room (in a good way). Low end extension is well under 40hz with soundstage which has unlimited width and depth, extended silvery highs and vocals that give you goosebumps. Once you are in hot seat, you don’t want to stop listening.

 

[AP@1992]

That's good, but try with a Loaned Powerful Integrated Amplifier or Pre Power setup and see before shelling big bucks

Absolutely. That hard lesson has been learnt well over time.

 

[corElement]

I recently tried out a bunch of dacs and settled on an ec design dac. It hit my target in one shot. It is unlikely I will move from it unless I get a dcs bartok or something costs 10x more.