Turntable Advice

[tek]

Hi Everyone

This is day 2 for me on the forums and it's been great. Lot's of great feedback for everyone and is very helpful.

I just wanted to bring up the subject of TT's. I got into collecting Vinyl about 2 years ago while I was visiting the US. I picked up a cheap Numark portable 100 dollar player and it suited me fine for the first year or so. I figured it was time to upgrade to something better, so I went in for the Project Genie with the Orotfon om3e cartridge. It's been almost a year, and I think it's a great step up frmo the Numark. Vinyl sounds much better and the bass is much deeper. Overall I'm quite happy.

Although, recently I've been thinking whether I should upgrade from this. I was thinking of upgrading the cartridge to the 2m Red. Sushil from Nova Audio quoted me something like 6 k, which is a lot mroe than it costs online, but everything costs more when imported to India and bought legitimately!

The other option was to buy a second hand TT. I scoured Chor Bazaar, and I know some people have found great stuff there. Firstly, I am a newbie at this and am not sure what to get/whether I can get a new stylus/cartridge for it, and secondly I'm weary about picking up anything from there just coz everything looks like it could fall apart once I get it home! But I'm assuming you could get something good for about 5k, and then a new cart would be another 5-7k?

I am basically wondering what you guys' opinion was on this. Should I stick to my Genie (that attracts a tremendous amount of dust without a dust cover!) and upgrade the cart to 2m for 6k, or go in for something completely different.

Looking forward to your comments.

- Tek

 

[shaundubash]

Hi tek,

at the end of the day, are you happy with the way the music sounds because thats the real question. Otherwise you will caught up in the search for the perfect sound....and trust me, thats not what its about.

Its about the music, hearing it and feeling it.

don't know if I made sense, but thats my opinion and opinions come a dime a dozen.

anways, its all personal choice.

Enjoy the music !!!

am listening to Mark Knopfler's Get Lucky on LP on my Rega and its just beautiful

 

[tek]

Hey Shaun

I totally dig your advice. And no doubt, at the end of the day I am very happy. I love collecting records, and I love listening to them. However, I get the feeling that it could sound a little better?

I don't think I want to go in for a new TT just yet, but I am seriously considering the upgrade to the 2M red. Does anyone have any experience with this cart? Will it be an improvement over the stock om3 that came with my table? I am running through a Project phono stage (usb one) and going through a yamaha digital amp and out of my 1978 B&O speakers.

 

[tek]

Also, I am a bit miffed by lack of a dust cover for the Genie. Does anyone know where in Bombay I can source someone to build one for me? I have pets and living in Bombay, things get dusty real quick!

 

[Hiten]

Hi tek
I think there will be no TT in chorbazar that beats brand new Project Genie. TTs that are old or has some problem or the owner was fed up with it or are heavily used come to chorbazar, so if you are super lucky to get a much advanced TT in great shape buy it, or if you or anyone you know can handle good servicing of old TT buy it.
As for dust cover any award/trophy maker who works with acrylic can make it for you.
Regds.
Hiten

 

[stevieboy]

hi tek,

the price of the cart is almost half the cost of your tt. instead of spending that money you might as well save up till you can afford a much better table, say one like the rpm5 range where you get a better platter, better tonearm.

in my opinion your current tt platter and tonearm wont be able to extract the best out of your cart it would be a waste. save the money for a better table

regards

 

[tek]

@ hiten : you're right.. i don't know anything about servicing it myself, so it would be nice to pick up one day to tinker with as a hobby. Until I am more knowledgable, I'm gonna stick with something new like a pro-ject

@ stevieboy : yeah, the table cost me about 13k and the 2M Red is 6k. But I do have a feeling the cart could use a little upgrade Any idea how much the rpm5 is going for these days? Will the 6k I save by not buying the 2M red now be just an incremental save? Would it take a lot of saving to buy one? hehe

 

[Asit]

Hi,

I fully agree with Stevie on waiting now and later get hold of a much better TT with a better table, tonearm, cartridge etc.

Stevie and all other TT experts,

I have a question. I have a Dual CS5000 TT which I bought in 1990. Currently it is out of service and I am not sure if I can make it work again. If not I'd like to buy a new TT. Although I have a modest collection of vinyl, I seriously miss that sound and plan on adding to that collection. I was thinking of the Pro-ject 1 Expression III and the RPM5 models. Can anybody compare these TTs? The thread-starter Tek may also benefit from this discussion. What are the approx prices of these? SKS Kolkata quoted 43K for the 1 Expression III, and I was stunned, because based on dollar or pound prices, I did not think these could be more than 30K. SKS could not quote a price for RPM5. In any case, SKS always quotes unbelievably high price, and so I may have to get my TT from out of town I think. Then I called Nova Audio in Bombay. They were not willing to give me the prices and was trying to direct me to SKS who are the local dealers. When I insisted, he told me he would write e-mail with the price list. That e-mail never came. Anyway the Nova Audio person told me that neither of these models are in ready stock. They would get them if ordered.

Also, do I need a speedbox with these models? Any suggestion also on a phono-stage? How about the ones made by Pro-ject themselves or the one by Creek some people are raving about.

Tek,

I do not want to hijack your thread. I think you may also be interested in the answers. If not, I may move these to a separate thread.

Guys,

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards.

 

[tek]

No worries bro. Would love to hear peoples responses on this.

I too am fed up with dealers overpricing by whatever they choose. When I confronted Sushil from Nova Audio about the huge hike in prices for the same equipment he quoted me a few months back, he blamed the rising Euro.

If you choose to get these tables from abroad yourself, can you tell us your experience doing so? I mean, even the 2M red cart, which technically shouldn't cost more than 4000-4500 is being quoted upwards of 6000. Is this simply and exaggeration or monopoly at its best? (or worst) =)

 

[stevieboy]

yes that's there but do understand that cart performance depends on the quality of the table and tonearm. its like wanting to put radial tubeless tyres on a bullock cart on the other hand sure you could get the cart and use it till you get a better table and then use it there!

regards

 

[stevieboy]

Hi,

I was thinking of the Pro-ject 1 Expression III and the RPM5 models.

hi asit,

if you have the money the rpm 5 is definitely the better bet. better tonearm, better platter.

the tonearm looks like its one piece whereas the tonearm on the expression III has an aluminium headpiece attached. also the tonearm is 9" compared to 8.6". longer the better.

the expression seems to have a speed box built in rpm5 you might need to get an external one (bout 5-6k) well worth it though! highly recommended.

last i knew, the rpm5 was bout 60 or so... keep checking with sushil he might get ex demo pieces or a trade in for sale. you might get lucky. i got lucky twice!

as for phono stage project makes decent phono stages, i've used the tube one for a while... my recommendation would be to get the cheap solid state one for starters and then try out viren's phonostage or go to viren's phono stage straightaway. superb jump in performance, especially with the telefunken ecc83s. no idea bout the creek.

regards

 

[stevieboy]

I too am fed up with dealers overpricing by whatever they choose. When I confronted Sushil from Nova Audio about the huge hike in prices for the same equipment he quoted me a few months back, he blamed the rising Euro.

based on my experience with sushil, he's one of the more honest dealers in the biz. the 2m red was bout 4k beginning of the year a friend picked one up. foreign currency rates do determine the prices here. all the stuff i have bought from him so far has been very reasonably priced in relation with international prices on needledoctor.

EDIT: just checked needledoctor, price for 2m red is $99, add shipping bout $25 so 125x48 = bout 6k approx. dramatically overpriced?...

regards

 

[Asit]

Thanks Stevie for the inputs. I also like the heavier platter (table) of the RPM5. The Expression III platter is lighter than that of even the Genie/RPM1, as far as I remember.

I'll have to set up a communication with Sushil and Nova Audio. From all reports they do honest business and are very helpful. I need to get lucky just once, because I do not change stuff very often.

Regards.

 

[stevieboy]

hi asit,

one tip, don't email, call sushil. better results that way. he prefers chatting. the other guy there is not into tts. sushil's the guy.

regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hello Guys,
I am also thinking about a turntable upgrade. Basically Its not an upgrade but I want to use my existing TT in my bedroom and get a better TT to go with Lyrita setup. I have found this project model quite interesting.
Pro-Ject Xperience X Pack >> Pro-Ject Xperience Turntable Record Player with Ortofon Rondo Red MC Cartridge and Speed Box
Does anybody has any experience with it. Is there better option available in similar price range.
Thanks.

 

[tek]

Hey Stevie

Thanks for the feedback. Don't get me wrong, I was pretty happy with Nova Audio service when i picked up my Genie. Although, Sushil didn't interact much and put me onto one of the junior guys who was also very helpful. I guess I was just a small fish! But he is a very helpful chap, and I would be happy to buy from him. In fact, i've put quite a few people on to him who are looking for new tables. I still don't think he remembers who I am though

Thanks for clearing up about the 2M red.. and the things you mentioned about tone arms and platter are absolutely correct, but I heard someone mention that the 2M red is about the highest you can go on a table like the Genie. In fact, some Genies come prefitted with the 2M Red. I almost bought that one from Sushil, but one inspection it showed to have a huge crack going along the side so I went for the stock fitted cartridge piece instead.

It seems to me that if Project itself offered the table with the 2M Red attached, they woudln't do so if it were to make no difference to the sound? I just want to add a little more depth to the sound, cos some of the highs in some records seem a bit "screechy". This could of course be the record itself too, but I can't help but wonder whether upgrading the cart to the upper limit the table can handle well would make any difference....

60k for the rpm5 is just not happening for me right now...

 

[mahiruha]

Hello tek,
when you are looking for a cartridge upgrade the firt thing you need to look at is the couterweight that is supplied with your existing TT. Please have a look at the manul to check the range of cartridge weight it can support. 2m red is on higher side around 8gms as far I remember. so unless your counter weight can support it you can't really balance the tonearm and things will go wrong.
Thanks.

 

[tek]

What about going in for a used TT from Chor Bazaar? I went there yesterday and they had Gerrards, Philips, Pioneer and a Technics SL 220.

I guess if I were to buy any of these, I would need a new cartridge? Any advice on getting a good mid-high end TT used in Mumbai? And i'm guessing I could probably buy a Shure cartridge for the SL 220 and that should work? Alternatively, anyone on the board have a TT they want to sell

Also, just a general question on the Pro-jects.... are they all manual? I love my Genie, but sometimes i like to listen to records as I doze off to sleep, but then I have to get up and take the needle off the record and shut down the motor! Yes, as you can tell i'm quite lazy

Edit: I also saw a Philips f 7213 direct drive... anyone know anything about this?

 

[stevieboy]

hi tek,

sure you'd get an improvement but not all you could get out of it as compared to putting the cart on a table with a better platter and/or tonearm. and keeping in mind the genie price and the current cart price... if you were looking at only staying with the genie, then its ok if you really want to upgrade only by means of a new cart and stay put, but not really a good long term plan.

regards

 

[stevieboy]

Hello tek,
when you are looking for a cartridge upgrade the firt thing you need to look at is the couterweight that is supplied with your existing TT. Please have a look at the manul to check the range of cartridge weight it can support. 2m red is on higher side around 8gms as far I remember. so unless your counter weight can support it you can't really balance the tonearm and things will go wrong.
Thanks.

hi mahiruha,

most entry level tables and carts match up pretty well. its more the tracking force where you might need another counterweight eg for old style ortofon SPU carts which go upto 30gms weight and bout 3gm tracking force. i dont think you'd need another counterweight for your table either, i faintly remember you wanting another one, did you need it...?

regards