Turntable Advice

[mahiruha]

hi mahiruha,

most entry level tables and carts match up pretty well. its more the tracking force where you might need another counterweight eg for old style ortofon SPU carts which go upto 30gms weight and bout 3gm tracking force. i dont think you'd need another counterweight for your table either, i faintly remember you wanting another one, did you need it...?

regards

Hello Steven,
I had problems. My tonearm won't balance. so I wrapped lucoplast around the counterweight to add couple of grams. now it is working more or less ok. But thins cartridge fitting is such a fiddly affair I guess for novice its better to get a TT with good cart fitted by the manufacturer.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

hi mahiruha,


what was the recommended tracking force range for your cart and what was the upper limit of your counterweight? if i remember right, you have the debut III?

regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hello Steven,
yes I have project debut 3 TT. MY cartridge specification is
Shure M97 XE Audiophile Phono Cartridge. 800-229-0644 M97XE Cartridge.
The stock counterweight can only support upto 5.5 gm.
Thnaks.

 

[stevieboy]

ah yes, i checked back to see which cart you got. have you got the appropriate counterweight yet? you ordered it from abroad right? and the tracking force gauge?

regards

 

[reignofchaos]

I'd say if you must have a turntable now, look at the projects. But I'm not so sure if the RPM5 or the Expression will match your Dual in audio quality. My honest opinion would be to stretch and get a VPI scout/classic. You'd probably not need to upgrade ever again .

You could also look at the midrange clearaudio TTs. The low end ones again are made by project.

 

[Asit]

Thanks RoC for your inputs. Yes, that Dual was one of their better products and at the time I bought it I weighed it against a particular Thorens model (cannot remember which one) and decided in favor of the Dual. Around that time, I was fully into vinyl as a major source of my music. But now I am not sure how long I can sustain this.

The reason for the above uncertainty is the following: 70% of all my music collection is in Indian Classical music. Even though the remaining 30% alone would be a few hundred hours in absolute terms, still it is not the first preference. Now, I do NOT see, at least in the near future, any major attempt made by the manufacturers of Indian Classical music recordings to produce vinyls anew (although in the West there has been a mini-revival of vinyl in the recent past). That means, to add to my vinyl collections (which is not great in quantity, less than 100 hours I think) I'll have to heavily depend on the used vinyl market, and that is a bit fluctuating with no guarantee of quality.

I can suspect, these TTs that I am looking at would not match my very good Dual CS5000. But what to do in this situation.

If I was sure about the quality and quantity of new vinyl supply in Indian classical music, I'd not hesitate to go for a better one.

I'd be eager to know your opinion, given my thinking above.

BTW, can you give me some ball park pricing of the VPI Classic and Scout models and also of the midrange Clearaudio models you mentioned?

Regards.

 

[reignofchaos]

Thanks RoC for your inputs. Yes, that Dual was one of their better products and at the time I bought it I weighed it against a particular Thorens model (cannot remember which one) and decided in favor of the Dual. Around that time, I was fully into vinyl as a major source of my music. But now I am not sure how long I can sustain this.

The reason for the above uncertainty is the following: 70% of all my music collection is in Indian Classical music. Even though the remaining 30% alone would be a few hundred hours in absolute terms, still it is not the first preference. Now, I do NOT see, at least in the near future, any major attempt made by the manufacturers of Indian Classical music recordings to produce vinyls anew (although in the West there has been a mini-revival of vinyl in the recent past). That means, to add to my vinyl collections (which is not great in quantity, less than 100 hours I think) I'll have to heavily depend on the used vinyl market, and that is a bit fluctuating with no guarantee of quality.

I can suspect, these TTs that I am looking at would not match my very good Dual CS5000. But what to do in this situation.

If I was sure about the quality and quantity of new vinyl supply in Indian classical music, I'd not hesitate to go for a better one.

I'd be eager to know your opinion, given my thinking above.

BTW, can you give me some ball park pricing of the VPI Classic and Scout models and also of the midrange Clearaudio models you mentioned?

Regards.

For the VPIs, mail Sridhar . They'd be US prices or thereabouts. For a decent clearaudio, it would be 1+ with a nice cartridge. I'd go for the VPIs anyday for their build quality.

 

[mahiruha]

Hello Roc,
who is Sridhar? does the Vpi scout comes with fitted cartridge?
thanks.

 

[shaizada]

The only VPI that can come with a fitted cartridge (highly recommended if you can't set it up yourself) is the classic. Look here:
AudiogoN ForSale: VPI CLASSIC w VPI Dv20x special

The Dynavectors are fantastic sounding cartridges.

 

[mahiruha]

Hello shaizada,
thanks for the suggestion. According to you what is the best bergain within $2500 price range I mean TT + cartridge.
Thanks.

 

[shaizada]

Does it have to be brand new, because the best values are used. You can get much more bang for the buck that way. Even after shipping/customs to India, you can come ahead price wise AND quality wise.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi Asit,

Thought you might find this interesting.

HI-FI WORLD - OLDE WORLDE - DUAL CS5000 SEMI AUTOMATIC TURNTABLE

Try to repair the Dual before looking out for a new TT.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[shaizada]

For under $2500, here is an absolutely fantastic deal for a brand new setup. Clearaudio setup:

CLEARAUDIO EMOTION CMB TURNTABLE COMBO - elusivedisc

I just got this offer in my email. The Clearaudio Maestro cartridge really is one helluva MM cart. I genuinely feel this is an excellent starter setup.

If the budget can be increased, I still think the VPI Classic is the sweet spot right now. Worthy of being a final table for anyone, unless you REALLY want to go crazy.

 

[mahiruha]

Hello shaizada,
thanks for some leads on the Turntables. Let me do some research and figure out where the best value lies. I am bit hesitant on ordering tuntable from the net. Lets see if I can locate somebody in India who deals in these stuff.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

What about going in for a used TT from Chor Bazaar? I went there yesterday and they had Gerrards, Philips, Pioneer and a Technics SL 220.

I guess if I were to buy any of these, I would need a new cartridge? Any advice on getting a good mid-high end TT used in Mumbai?

hi tek,

was thinking last night and the impression i have of the genie is not right. there was a similar conversation on the topic some time back on the forum and i was mistaken even then . apparently the genie is quite well built with a separate motor pod? or at least its well built. so you could check out the 2m red. now the price ...

you just might get a good deal at chor bazaar. g401fan here got a brand new still boxed garrard 301!!!

yes you'd need a new cartridge definitely!

regards

 

[tek]

Hey Stevieboy

Yeah, coz I saw that they were selling the Red stock fitted on the Genie, so I figured Pro-ject woudln't do that if it were complete overkill. But I read that anything above a 2M Red would defintiely be overkill.

I've already put in a word with Sushil and I'm just waiting for him to get free to do the upgrade for me. I could alternately order it online and do it myself, but I don't want to run the risk of damaging the thing. It is something I need to learn how to do, but i think better to learn in the presence of an expert.

i think the Genie with the 2M red and somehow getting a custom dust cover made should tide me over for some time. And one day, when I make my millions, I can drop a bomb on a killer set up (we can all dream, can't we?)

Edit: Yup, it has a separate motor pod. I was in the bazaar the other day and I saw a few gerrards. Didn't know much about them though, so not sure if it was a good one. There was one which was like a 6 Lp changer or something! But then there's the whole thing of finding a suitable cart, etc. I think upgrading my Genie, and then if i come across something cheap and good at the bazaar, i'll pick it up to tinker and practice with. Might be a better idea.

 

[Asit]

Ha Ha Tek, ultimately I did manage to hijack your thread, although not intentionally.

Rajiv, Thanks for the pointer. I bought the Dual CS5000 for about DM850 in W. Germany (before unification) in 1990 and that price was not a very cheap price at that time. I am surprised to see the author of the article you have linked has given a price of GBP 200. DM850 would be around GBP500 at that time, if I remember correctly.

Thanks for your encouragement in the direction of getting the CS5000 repaired. Let's see. I have the circuits downloaded from the net. But I have absolutely no expertise myself, I have to find somebody willing to do it.

Shaizada, Thanks for the information. It is a very good deal indeed. However, I am in no position to buy such an expensive item immediately. I have to plan well in advance my big purchases.

Regards.

 

[tek]

Asit - that's what threads are for

 

[mahiruha]

ah yes, i checked back to see which cart you got. have you got the appropriate counterweight yet? you ordered it from abroad right? and the tracking force gauge?

regards

Hi steven,
no I didn't get another counterweight. The site I looked at won't ship them to India. I have managed with the wrapped lucoplast. Today had a very funny experience. I was playing a Runa Laila record. I was expecting a female voice but it sounded like a male voice. Then I thought I am listening to a duet song and Runa Laila will join soon. Still no sign of her. I was wondering wot's wrong then I looked at the lp closely I found its 45 rpm. Didn't know LPs come in 2 different rpms.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

grin we all learn something new everyday

check with sushil or abhishek of cary audio design here on the forum. they are project dealers. do get the stylus force guage. you're playing with your precious lps!

regards