Wharfedale 10 series being launched

As far as I know, most of the speakers with rear ports are designed so, to allow user to tune the bass response (by keeping far/close to walls).

Front port doesn't allow you this luxury.

True. But on the other hand, people hard pushed for room space will benefit from a front port as they can have the speaker quite close to the rear wall. Audio, as with other things in life, ultimately means certain compromises - if there is a finite budget. :)
 
Did anybody else notice the boomy bass and timing issue with the Diamond 10.1 placed near the rear wall?

Or my ears were wrong? My AKG K701 has the tightest bass that I have ever heard from anything on the right side of 1 lakh.... :D
 
Did anybody else notice the boomy bass and timing issue with the Diamond 10.1 placed near the rear wall?

Or my ears were wrong? My AKG K701 has the tightest bass that I have ever heard from anything on the right side of 1 lakh.... :D

I just though that there were timings issues with the new wharf 10 series........

BTW the 10.2 bookshelves were a big disappointment:indifferent14: - the timing went out of the window with a Mazrantz CDP and AMP (6 series)
 
I just though that there were timings issues with the new wharf 10 series........

BTW the 10.2 bookshelves were a big disappointment:indifferent14: - the timing went out of the window with a Mazrantz CDP and AMP (6 series)

I am curious as to what you mean by timing issues with speakers. I can understand with electronic components but not with speakers. Is it lip sync you are referring to?
 
I am curious as to what you mean by timing issues with speakers. I can understand with electronic components but not with speakers. Is it lip sync you are referring to?

I meant time distortion,.....
I could not give the 10 series BS the benefit fo doubt sinc ethey had over 50hrs clocked on them.
Let me describe what I mean....(you can dition that and find it out yourself because I tried 2 new BS and then reverted back to 9.2 and 9.6 using the same source components)

If we look at a midrange driver and a tweeter, in the common vertical alignment in an enclosure, we have a time delay. The "acoustic centre" of the tweeter will most likely be a small distance closer to the listener than that of the midrange driver, and for the sake of this discussion, let us assume a difference of 50 mm, because it is a realistic and typical offset for common loudspeakers.

Before continuing, it is important that the concept of "wavelength" is properly understood. Sound travels at about 345 m/s in dry air at sea level. This changes with temperature, humidity and altitude, but we shall not concern ourselves with this, and there is little we can do about it most of the time. A sound at 345 Hz has a wavelength of 1 metre, at 34.5 Hz the wavelength is 10 metres, and at 3450 Hz, it is 100 mm. This is quite linear, and works for all frequencies. Another useful thing to know is the period (the actual time required to reproduce one cycle at the selected frequency).

wavelength = velocity / frequency
period = 1 / frequency

From the above, we can calculate the wavelength for any frequency we like. 3000 Hz has a wavelength of 115 mm, for example.

If we return to the midrange and tweeter mentioned above, their acoustic centres are offset by 50 mm - this is exactly 1/2 wavelength if the crossover frequency is 3450 Hz. We can account for the 1/2 wavelength by reversing the wires to the tweeter, so it is 180 out of phase with the midrange. The two drivers are now aligned in phase, so in theory, they are time aligned. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Although the signal is in alignment at the crossover frequency, it will not be aligned any more when the frequency changes.

What is really needed is to delay the signal going to the tweeter by 145 us (1/2 of the period of a 3450 Hz waveform), or align the acoustic centres of the two drivers in the vertical plane. Such "time alignment" is commonly achieved by angling the baffle so that at the listening position, the signals are properly in phase and time.

Simply put the 10 series IMHO some problems with the design cues - I believe using the back port of the BS is flawed - Wharf trying to build something better over the 9.2 (obviously from feedback that they could do even better with better bass) tried the back porting. Seriously many may liek the sound - I just belive if you want more bass go get a sub or get a decent FS
 
Suprateep,

From my understanding of 'time-aligning' speaker drivers, all it means is that the distance of all drivers to the listener's ears should be made the same. Hence,as you mention, an inclined baffle evens out the distance for all drivers. This works for all frequencies, as long as the velocity of sound is constant in the room.
I don't see why wavelengths should enter into the discussion for this to work.

-Ajinkya.
 
Suprateep,

From my understanding of 'time-aligning' speaker drivers, all it means is that the distance of all drivers to the listener's ears should be made the same. Hence,as you mention, an inclined baffle evens out the distance for all drivers. This works for all frequencies, as long as the velocity of sound is constant in the room.
I don't see why wavelengths should enter into the discussion for this to work.

-Ajinkya.

simply put i tried telling him what time distortion was.........try the wharf 10.2 - you will notice the difference. (and yes time aligning speakers is simply not that simple - under normal conditions)
 
I read what you have down and do understand the funda behind the freq/wavelength relationship. However your description is so generic that it should apply to all speakers and not jus the wharfs. I still do not see this connection.

In addition, you are forgetting that speaker placement is never ideal and not even close to normal - leading to freq mismatches to the listener. But we dont always feel that do we?

Anyway, I have not auditioned this series and hopefully will someday. Ears will probably bring out the final say.

Thx for taking the time to explain though - its was a revelation to read something that I did almost 20 yrs ago.


I meant time distortion,.....
I could not give the 10 series BS the benefit fo doubt sinc ethey had over 50hrs clocked on them.
Let me describe what I mean....(you can dition that and find it out yourself because I tried 2 new BS and then reverted back to 9.2 and 9.6 using the same source components)

If we look at a midrange driver and a tweeter, in the common vertical alignment in an enclosure, we have a time delay. The "acoustic centre" of the tweeter will most likely be a small distance closer to the listener than that of the midrange driver, and for the sake of this discussion, let us assume a difference of 50 mm, because it is a realistic and typical offset for common loudspeakers.

Before continuing, it is important that the concept of "wavelength" is properly understood. Sound travels at about 345 m/s in dry air at sea level. This changes with temperature, humidity and altitude, but we shall not concern ourselves with this, and there is little we can do about it most of the time. A sound at 345 Hz has a wavelength of 1 metre, at 34.5 Hz the wavelength is 10 metres, and at 3450 Hz, it is 100 mm. This is quite linear, and works for all frequencies. Another useful thing to know is the period (the actual time required to reproduce one cycle at the selected frequency).

wavelength = velocity / frequency
period = 1 / frequency

From the above, we can calculate the wavelength for any frequency we like. 3000 Hz has a wavelength of 115 mm, for example.

If we return to the midrange and tweeter mentioned above, their acoustic centres are offset by 50 mm - this is exactly 1/2 wavelength if the crossover frequency is 3450 Hz. We can account for the 1/2 wavelength by reversing the wires to the tweeter, so it is 180 out of phase with the midrange. The two drivers are now aligned in phase, so in theory, they are time aligned. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Although the signal is in alignment at the crossover frequency, it will not be aligned any more when the frequency changes.

What is really needed is to delay the signal going to the tweeter by 145 us (1/2 of the period of a 3450 Hz waveform), or align the acoustic centres of the two drivers in the vertical plane. Such "time alignment" is commonly achieved by angling the baffle so that at the listening position, the signals are properly in phase and time.

Simply put the 10 series IMHO some problems with the design cues - I believe using the back port of the BS is flawed - Wharf trying to build something better over the 9.2 (obviously from feedback that they could do even better with better bass) tried the back porting. Seriously many may liek the sound - I just belive if you want more bass go get a sub or get a decent FS
 
I read what you have down and do understand the funda behind the freq/wavelength relationship. However your description is so generic that it should apply to all speakers and not jus the wharfs. I still do not see this connection.

In addition, you are forgetting that speaker placement is never ideal and not even close to normal - leading to freq mismatches to the listener. But we dont always feel that do we?

Anyway, I have not auditioned this series and hopefully will someday. Ears will probably bring out the final say.

Thx for taking the time to explain though - its was a revelation to read something that I did almost 20 yrs ago.

anytime man for you and the newbies here.

BTW the problem needs to be addressed by every speaker manufacturer and many actually do so - give the 10 series a try - you will get exactly what i meant.

Actually someone just pm'ed me regarding the same about the 10 series and its boominess at times - while some publication (AVMAX suppose) had given it excellent rating - we do understand that all these reviews need to be taken sometimes with a spoonful of salt.:indifferent14: . Anyway we can only express what we feel here - might affect a few buys here and there - but ultimately the buyer will trust his senses before buying something i am sure.

PS: Nothing is ideal - but it is imperative that the execution of the speaker manufacturer should be such that the near misses remain near misses even under normal conditions - unfortunately the 10 series 10.1, 10.2, 10.5 were very disappointing.

BTW 20 years is a long time - how 20 years back I was 8 - i am sure having no idea about baffle design, wavelength and the works.
 
X2.... Boomdale 10.1, really!

X2...

I played a Beethoven Violin concerto SACD and BOOOM... BOOOM BOOOOM went the Diamond 10.1 with a smeared and exagarated bass-line.

I will do some re-listening once I place them on proper stands and position them properly.

But I guess is that Wharfedale shot themselves in the foot and got it wrong this time. The entire orchestral peak with timpani was smeared, boomy and muddy with poor timing of bassy parts. Diamond 9.1 had less bass but it was tight and my K701 is just as tight as it can get...
 
Re: X2.... Boomdale 10.1, really!

X2...

I played a Beethoven Violin concerto SACD and BOOOM... BOOOM BOOOOM went the Diamond 10.1 with a smeared and exagarated bass-line.

I will do some re-listening once I place them on proper stands and position them properly.

But I guess is that Wharfedale shot themselves in the foot and got it wrong this time. The entire orchestral peak with timpani was smeared, boomy and muddy with poor timing of bassy parts. Diamond 9.1 had less bass but it was tight and my K701 is just as tight as it can get...

I am really a newbiew (infact my first post :yahoo:) here but I think the rear ported speaker manufacturers supply some form of damper inserts for the rear ports. These are supposed to be used to reduce the booms. Experts in the form can explain better.

I recently auditioned a pair of 9.1s with CA340SE and at the price the combo seemed to be an excellent entry level stuff. unfortunately couldn't hear the 10.1 as they had only one pair which was already sold and was getting ready to be shipped.
 
Re: X2.... Boomdale 10.1, really!

I am really a newbiew (infact my first post :yahoo:) here but I think the rear ported speaker manufacturers supply some form of damper inserts for the rear ports. These are supposed to be used to reduce the booms. Experts in the form can explain better.

I recently auditioned a pair of 9.1s with CA340SE and at the price the combo seemed to be an excellent entry level stuff. unfortunately couldn't hear the 10.1 as they had only one pair which was already sold and was getting ready to be shipped.

dear
i am somen ,kolkata,dumdum ,9836302424.
where you auditioned this ca 340+9.1 ,kd tell me or talk me ,
 
Re: X2.... Boomdale 10.1, really!

dear
i am somen ,kolkata,dumdum ,9836302424.
where you auditioned this ca 340+9.1 ,kd tell me or talk me ,

Hi Somen,
The CA dealer (sells Mordaunt Short and Wharfedale speakers) in kolkata is -

SKS Traders
52A, Sarat Bose Road,
Kolkata, India - 700025
Telephone: +919831163529
Email: [email protected]
Web: Audiophile shop in Kolkata for audiophile quality CD players

It is a small shop (but with decent sound proof listening room) bang opposite Padmapukur on Lansdowne / Sarat Bose Road near the RTO office crossing.

Anirban
 
What Hi-Fi review of Diamond 10.1 - 5 Stars

"The 10.1s take Wharfedale back to the forefront of budget speakers. Truly excellent."

This claim is given on Wharfedale Hi-Fi > Home but I could not locate the review online. Perhaps it is only in print till now.
 
Folks.....i recently bought Diamond 10.1 and paired it with Denon PMA-700AE amplifier.......It's outstanding...am loving every bit of it......honestly i didn't expect this relatively small speakers to do so well.....to my ears it really outperformed the B&W bookshelfs, which is almost four times expensive, my brother bought recently....
 
hey SC, congratulations, now what you MUST do is verify this feeling that you have by either taking your 10.1s to your bro's place or getting your bro to bring the B&Ws to your place, and do an A/B comparison, that way we'll all benefit from your insights as well :)

to my ears it really outperformed the B&W bookshelfs, which is almost four times expensive, my brother bought recently....
 
Folks.....i recently bought Diamond 10.1 and paired it with Denon PMA-700AE amplifier.......It's outstanding...am loving every bit of it......honestly i didn't expect this relatively small speakers to do so well.....to my ears it really outperformed the B&W bookshelfs, which is almost four times expensive, my brother bought recently....

As I said before, I love the Diamond 10.1's midrange... very natural, transparent and uncoloured... very similar to the 9.1 but more resolved!

But my gripe was the loose bass....
@sckorah... How far did you place them from the rear wall? Did you put them on stands? What genres do you listen to?


I have the Diamond 9.1... and I love them! The Diamond 9.1 has no flaws.... yes what they do can be bettered by many speakers, but at higher price brackets and with trade-offs. My AKG K701 headphones for instance are far more transparent, but the tonal balance of the Diamond 9.1 is better with some tracks.

The 10.1 is sooo good in the midrange and treble... alas that bass... big bad bass! :sad: Fix it and I will sell my 9.1!

Strange, What Hifi and AVMax gave them 5 stars and I interacted with a What Hifi reviewer who felt that with proper stands and positioning, the bass on the 10.1 was fine!

hey SC, congratulations, now what you MUST do is verify this feeling that you have by either taking your 10.1s to your bro's place or getting your bro to bring the B&Ws to your place, and do an A/B comparison, that way we'll all benefit from your insights as well :)

I heard the B&W 685 once and wasn't that impressed. They weren't bad, but I didn't hear anything extraordinary either. They were driven by a Onkyo AVR, that was probably their undoing; I never heard them off a stereo amp.

I heard the QUAD 11L2 once and they were dry, thin, sterile and boring.

The 9.1 is truly a remarkable speaker... so effortless, so musical! My AKG does make them sound trivial at times, but my next BIG upgrade would have the AKG K701's resolution and Diamond 9.1's tonal balance in the midrange. (Midbass is more neutral on the AKG though!)
 
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Has anybody seen the new Wharfedale Diamond 10 series speakers being launched now. It is going to be launched in Bangalore on this weekend and I am going to audition the same.

However the UK website doesnt mention about this model, however the Chinese website has, unfortunately everything is in Chinese.

Some links to the chinese WF website,

http://www.chinaswt.com.cn/images/bigpic/onyx/Diamond_10.CS.jpg

http://www.wharfedale.com.cn/page_show.asp?ArticleID=1042


I bought 10.1 last week and my friend 10.2.
It has definitely more bass and sounds larger than equivalent 9 series.
Vocals were better with9.
 
I bought 10.1 last week and my friend 10.2.
It has definitely more bass and sounds larger than equivalent 9 series.
Vocals were better with9.


Is the bass tight on your setup? The 10.1 is known to sound boomy if not positioned correctly.

As long as the bass is tight, more bass is acceptable. (as long as it is balanced with the mids and highs)
 
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