What does the Logo on Records refer?

[Bhim Bhai]

Ok then it's decided.
You stay with your Subjective opinion & "vast knowledge" derived from some "Hearsay". I have no interest in what you "think".

And let us, the lesser mortals, remain happy with the FACT of actual vinyl making procedure learned from the Stalwarts of Record Making industry in India.

This is very childish behaviour that is being exhibited.

1. I have NEVER claimed to be immortal/higher mortal, and do not see you as a lesser mortal.

2. I have provided a CASE STUDY via an audiovisual comparison which tests the audio fidelity difference between the two.

3. I have provided the contact details of one of the foremost Bollywood vinyl collectors in India today, who possesses a vast library of Angel and White Sticker Odeon’s. Have you made the effort to contact him to ask for more knowledge about the differences in audio fidelity between the two?

4. There is NOTHING here I have stated which is something I think.

• Do you understand the concept of scientific observation?
• Scientific method includes testing variables and noting observations.
• I have observed multiple times, the exact same album in both the Angel and White Sticker Odeon pressings.
• Each and every time there are vast audible difference between the two.
• Variability coincides to the type of pellet used and weight of the record.

In fact Jai Viraat Singh displays once again both variants of another album, where the audible difference is discussed.

So,

I have provided both a case study, 35 observational comments, and the contact details of one of the foremost vinyl collectors of India.

What facts/evidence have YOU provided to prove that Angel and White Sticker Odeon’s are;

‘nothing but an Angel pressing with odeon labels for foreign markets. Anyone trying to differentiate sound quality between them is just wasting his/her time’

As you have stated.

It is tremendously shameful when somebody refuses to learn and attacks the teacher.

 

[prem]

I think both the members are right here.

Bhaskarcan is a very knowledgable person who has had the opportunity to meet and discuss the process of record mastering and manufacturing with many old EMI/HMV seniors who used to work at the DumDum plant.

Bhim Bhai, although new to the forum, appears to be an experienced collector.

Bhaskarcan mentioned the master used for Angel and Ring Odeon pressing is the same. That is correct. I have also heard this from senior people in HMV.

Also Bhim Bhai is correct in saying the two sound different because of the difference in the quality of the pellets used and the thickness.

In fact, it’s very important to understand that a 180 gm vinyl will sound different from a 140 gm vinyl which uses same master. Which one you like boils down to personal preference. There is no right or wrong here.

Guys let’s all use our collective wisdom and make this a better forum.

 

[prem]

I would rather just sit back and enjoy the music and buy the press that sounds best to my ears, irrespective of whether it’s Angel or Ring Odeon or first or later press

Honestly there’s nothing wrong with most second presses. They sound very good. The first press hype is more a collector thing.

For example, I have owned Abhilasha in Ring Odeon. Angel and the later thinner Odeon press with a different cover. To my ears, they all sound good. Angel is sweeter sounding. Ring Odeon is more extended and cleaner sounding. The later press is a bit thinner sounding but a bit more dynamic.

Now I only own the Angel because I like the sweet tone.

I would say listening to different presses is more akin to listening to a concert in different auditoriums

 

[Niz]

This isn’t true at all

In the 1960’s, there were Angel’s for Indian market and White Sticker Odeon’s for export market.

There are large differences between the audio fidelity of the same album dependant on whether it was released on Angel or White Sticker Odeon.

To say people are wasting their time to decipher a difference is simply wrong and slightly arrogant.

This is interesting, I haven't seen any white label Odeon records. But what about the black label Odeon records that are released in the same year as the Angel pressings, were they for export or for domestic market?

 

[Niz]

Are the Pakistan Odeon pressing sound quality as good as Indian pressing for Hindi movies?

Hi,
I have a number of Pakistan Odeon pressings from the late 60s upto 1980. They sound fantastic. I have Muqaddar ka Sikander on Odeon Karachi pressing, and it sounds as good as its Indian counterpart pressing. I think, and I'm happy to be corrected on this, but from looking into this, often the master tapes would be transported to Karachi to press local copies to fulfill demand, so it would be new lacquers cut, but from the original tapes. I'm not sure if this happened in EVERY case, but in many cases. I guess if you look at the pressing date, and if it's a year after the original India release, then it is likely the Karachi pressing used the original tapes, but if the release was in the same year, then it's possible it was made from a copy of the tape. But overall, Pakistani pressings do have a great sound.

 

[Niz]

I think both the members are right here.

Bhaskarcan is a very knowledgable person who has had the opportunity to meet and discuss the process of record mastering and manufacturing with many old EMI/HMV seniors who used to work at the DumDum plant.

Bhim Bhai, although new to the forum, appears to be an experienced collector.

Bhaskarcan mentioned the master used for Angel and Ring Odeon pressing is the same. That is correct. I have also heard this from senior people in HMV.

Also Bhim Bhai is correct in saying the two sound different because of the difference in the quality of the pellets used and the thickness.

In fact, it’s very important to understand that a 180 gm vinyl will sound different from a 140 gm vinyl which uses same master. Which one you like boils down to personal preference. There is no right or wrong here.

Guys let’s all use our collective wisdom and make this a better forum.

Hi, thanks for your insight on this. What do you think is the reason for different weights and pellets being used under different labels? I would have expected the 'better quality' to be reserved for export, but it would appear in this case (Angel) was kept for the Indian market?

 

[prem]

The better pellets were used for the export market. This is not to say inferior stuff was used in Angels. It’s just that quality control was more stringent for the export market.

 

[Hiten]

This is interesting, I haven't seen any white label Odeon records. But what about the black label Odeon records that are released in the same year as the Angel pressings, were they for export or for domestic market?

In my limited exposure to vinyls I have also never seen a white odeon pressing. If anyone has kindly share the pictures. Internet is also not helping.
Pakistani vinyls : It also doesn't makes sense to send master tapes to another place and remaster (and requalize) make the metal stamper again. Which adds costs. I guess they may be sending extra metal stampers to foreign countries. I have seen popular western artists illegal pressings pressed in far east countries too. Which according to experts they record from original records... reprocess it and make new stampers. Usually these records have filmsy jackets and cover printing is not good.

It is sad to see we have no documetation for such things of golden era of Indian music.
Regards,.

 

[prem]

There’s no such thing as a white odeon pressing. There’s a small white sticker with odeon logo on it on the vinyl jacket. The vinyl has two rings. Hence called ring odeon. Domestic first presses of Hindi film albums released between 1970 to 73 also had two rings. They are also referred to as ring odeons

 

[Niz]

There’s no such thing as a white odeon pressing. There’s a small white sticker with odeon logo on it on the vinyl jacket. The vinyl has two rings. Hence called ring odeon. Domestic first presses of Hindi film albums released between 1970 to 73 also had two rings. They are also referred to as ring odeons

I recently found out about these "ring odeons," and had a look through my collection to see if I had any. I found 3 ring odeons, all of which released between 70 and 73 as you mentioned, and these records are much heavier and substantial than other Odeon records I have. So the thinner non-ring odeons are 2nd, 3rd pressings? Were these pressed just later in the year of release, or years later? They all have the original year of release on the label, other than the very clear reissues which do have a different year of release on the label.

 

[prem]

The thinner ones were pressed much later. And yes, they are 2nd or 3rd pressings