What features should i look for, in an AVR 5.1?

[k-pad]

VK, bro!
Nitin Bhai has already led you to the right path, but just so other FMs also understand better and guide you right:

So i have a whole bunch of different things going on right now, sound-wise, hence the various unrelated questions popping up here. (Tl;DR version - have finally moved to a place where i can set up my sound system the way i want, and so am trying to put together a bedroom system, main system and HT system).

Three systems?
If so, they will each individually require suggestions depending on your requirements. But that's what us FMs are here for (not me, others )

I moved my Marantz PM6007 and Wharfedale 225s/Taga something subwoofer to my TV once I got my NAD/Sonus Faber/PSB system up and running. Neither my wife or I am big TV buffs - I mainly watch some sports on it

Sports are some of the worst offenders when it comes to quality, so it doesn't need any correction.

and we occasionally binge on some shows

Ditto shows.

and perhaps one movie a week.

This is where the conversation begins...

But i liked the sound with the PM6007 enough to consider getting a decent HT setup for the TV for those few times we do watch movies or TV show. So here we are.

I dont like/care enough about movies to invest the time some of you guys do in getting your HT system up and running. Want something that gives me a decent immersive experience,

Room dimensions, sir?

isnt bright/shrill and can be enjoyed at normal volumes (no reference quality stuff). And most importantly, something that is easy to set up. Receiver power is not an issue - even 50WPC should be more than enough to drive the system to the levels I will be listening (70-75dB).

From the top of my mind, QA and Dali boolkshelves... they are exactly as you describe -- not shouty and will live with 50W power for your required dBs...

Our TV is also a little unusually located - it isnt in the main living room, but in a 10' x 11' alcove off it, and the TV is off to one side, to make room for a hallway opening. So the speakers are going to be a litte off center - as such, I assume some room correction/analysis built into the receiver would be good to have.

Diagrams please!

What other features should i be looking for? Some other points to consider:

4K today, 8K ready.

- I dont have a very complicated setup - Apple TV source (I have no idea if it is a 4k unit or not - it is about 3 years old), 58" TV (HD only, not 4k), maybe a PS4 - or a PS5 if i upgrade, although i am not a hard core gamer. I dont see this changing or increasing

Plan for bigger TV, next gen console.

- I dont mind paying a little more for something which is not functionally compromised and i dont see myself upgrading for atleast 2-3 years, if at all.

Get them today, and not regret later,

- I am undecided on the Atmos/7 channel capabilities - part of me says "why not get them if it is only going to cost a little more" and the other part goes "meh, you wont use it and if you do, you can always change the receiver)

Good ceiling speakers cost a lot.

- I dont know what emerging technologies i should try to get - eArc, HDMI 2.1, etc

Defo, you do need them. What are you, a Dino?

I was looking at the Denon BT250/550 series but the lack of room correction was an issue. So now thinking of the Yamaha RX-4VA, which has room correction. Given my needs above, does this sound right to you?

Nope. You need at least 1x series above, and considering all your requirements, a 10x costing AVR than what you have in mind.

Alternatively, how much more would it be to pony up for an Atmos-capable receiver which meets my other requirements

Finger pointing above emoji...
Either a Denon 3xxx series or a Marantz 60 and above or an Arcam 4 series...

Sorry, person, but it is what it is...

 

[sandeepmohan]

I dont like/care enough about movies to invest the time some of you guys do in getting your HT system up and running. Want something that gives me a decent immersive experience, isnt bright/shrill and can be enjoyed at normal volumes (no reference quality stuff). And most importantly, something that is easy to set up.

This part of your query makes me wonder if you want to head down the road at all with dedicated HT.
I am usually averse to recommending Sound Bars. In your case, I will.
To start, you don't have a large enough area. You don't want to compromise on your living space with speakers.
You are looking for something that is easy to set up, operate and will offer some connection flexibility.
You are not looking for something that will bring down the house. All you want is the audio to be delivered to you clearly, for the little time that you spend in front of the TV.

I believe you can achieve the above with a good Atmos capable Sound bar. It won't come cheap. It may actually cost as much as a dedicated HT. That is convenience you are paying for.

I'd give the Bose Soundbar 900 a listen and if you want a better Atmos experience, the Nakamichi Shockwave. I don't think the latter is sold in India. Putting it out there if you have the means (or ways) to buy, hear one. Another that comes to mind is the Sony A9. The Bose and Sony do not have sub woofers in the box. You may, may not need it. This can be ascertained only after you listen to them. I'd give them a test run at the store. You'll find every online review singing praises about these product. My recommendation is to go and listen to them. There is only one that you will like.

Wired HDMI Connectivity is not as good as a AVR base system. However, you do have ARC, toslink, coaxial and pretty much the usual standard of wired or wireless streaming such as Spotify, Apple Music, etc. Lets say you add a game console, your TV will have to be the video switcher.

A point to note about the Sony. It is not a sound bar. Its 4 wireless ( you need a plug socket) speakers placed in 4 corners of the room. Its more spatial audio with the ability to deflect sound off the ceiling when Atmos is fed.

Good Luck.

 

[Donivlapog]

That's a good point - so far, i have just been thinking of 5.1 surround and Atmos. Are there any other formats that are "essential"? What are most movies on Netflix, etc using? I assume most "higher" formats will automatically get reduced to 5.1 or something if the receiver cannot handle them.

(As an aside - isnt Dolby True HD a format for BlueRay players? Is there any streaming content that actually uses it)

In netflix the lossless briefly surfaces when the N logo comes out with a bang jingle. And when you are skittling with title selection - since that requires only brief chimes and audio streams they are lossless (in true hd or dts masters - the bluray quality.) In gaming consoles you may get to output lossless. Apart from that it is future proof wrt streaming ott platforms. These days most AVRs come with dts master hd and dolby true hd. They are basically in mbps i think while plain dolby digital plus prologic etc... are in kbps transfer rates. Check with some senior forum members as i am just a jack of all trades kibitzing lobbyist in this forum. Not enough knowledge to comment or suggest seriously.

 

[vkalia]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

So re lossless - did my research and i dont think it is something that i need to have. I am not looking for the last word in resolution when watching movies and the lossy audio of regular Dolby Digital/DTS should be sufficient.

@sandeepmohan - you raise a good point about soundbars. I am avoiding them because the cheap ones are crap and by the time i get to something decent, the equivalent price for separates gets me better sound. While it is true that i do not want to set up a dedicated HT system or do a lot of complex wiring and installation, running a couple of cables for 2 surround speakers is not a problem at all. The payoff is better sound and the ability to turn up the volume occasionally if watching something that warrants it. If I spending 1.5-2 lakhs or more on this, i want something that sounds better than a soundbar but without going balls-to-the-wall crazy. While I am not a TV junkie, i certainly do want to enjoy a good experience when i do watch movies.

@k-pad - thanks for the detailed comments. Re the audio system, i am ok - I know what i like and it's just a matter of doing some research on specific models and listening to them. Re your points:
- 8k: like i said, i dont see myself going for 8k anytime soon. 4k is more than sufficient for my needs for the next 3-5 years. However, from what I gather, the upgrade to 8k isnt huge - so fair enough, might as well get that
- given that i will only have 1 source (Apply TV) or at most 2 (a video game console - I havent turned my current one since 2019.... so it isnt exactly high priority), super-high-throughput AVRs arent really a requirements.

Given all of this, why do you think i need to spend 10x? Something like a Denon AVR-X1700H or S-760H has 8k, has 7 channels, Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vertical Height Visualization, audio calibration, 120k passthrough. Seems to meet all my requirements and then some. Why spend more?

In general:
I am willing to go 5.1.2 if you guys think that 2 height speakers will provide a significant improvement to my movie experience. What do you guys say? And is pretty much any 7 channel receiver compatible with 5.1.2 - ie, can you toggle between 7.x and 5.x.2?

 

[Nitin K]

In general:
I am willing to go 5.1.2 if you guys think that 2 height speakers will provide a significant improvement to my movie experience. What do you guys say? And is pretty much any 7 channel receiver compatible with 5.1.2 - ie, can you toggle between 7.x and 5.x.2?

In the case of Audyssey XT 32 phone app, you can Calibrate your gear as a 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 depending on your avr as long as the avr can support that many channels + the number of speakers installed. You can save those configurations as separate files on the phone & can send them to the avr accordingly via wifi. Logically interchanging the number of channels in the above case should be possible since we can also play in stereo 2.1 mode in an AV setup. Basically you may need to run Audyssey twice and tell it how many speakers are there each time.


Without the phone app which is available for higher models, the config file in the lower models will have to be saved and loaded from a pen drive from the usb port of the receiver.
I am not aware if the phone app is available for the lower tier models in Marantz/Denon which is a lot more flexible than the inbuilt software.

 

[OM_2K19]

Given all of this, why do you think i need to spend 10x? Something like a Denon AVR-X1700H or S-760H has 8k, has 7 channels, Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vertical Height Visualization, audio calibration, 120k passthrough. Seems to meet all my requirements and then some. Why spend more?

Avoid their S series; it has an inferior version of Audyssey calibration. X1700H will be a more fruitful purchase. It has everything you need. The high-end models have more channels, Power, Ausessey Multi Eq X32, and independent calibration of dual subwoofers. You probably don't need those with your current set-up. The price is highly inflated right now. Better buy X1700H, save some money, and spend it on a better Subwoofer.

 

[sandeepmohan]

While I am not a TV junkie, i certainly do want to enjoy a good experience when i do watch movies.

I believe you can achieve this with a Soundbar. As you rightly said, the cheaper one's won't do it. When you start heading into the 100K+ models, you're looking at the more accomplished versions of soundbars. They can play pretty loud and not lose composure in their delivery of sound.

The decision is yours. I'd start by taking a piece of paper and drawing a schematic on the placement of equipment, speakers and what you need to do for wiring. You will definitely get a better experience going for a component based HT system.

 

[Donivlapog]

Sandeep, my argument is if one is looking at 100k+, he could get himself a AVR based home theater instead of the sound bar based ones or (htibs) or those ones which sound like satellite speakers. The wood based bookshelves or floorstanding+bookshelves combo in loudspeakers give a better sound signature for the money spent right? Also i think the ones that are costly like Samsung Q950A cllaiming a 11.1.4 will have many channels put up as a genie in a bottle inside a sound bar. Very cramped and the sound may superimpose, echo and may not separate as good as well positioned real HTs. Or you think otherwise?

 

[Barun7]

x1600h is a decent receiver with ample power for regular usage. x1700h is a newer version with almost similar features except it has 8k(which I doubt you will use in the next 5 years). Whichever amongst these two you get your hands on, get that. But the challenge is to get a receiver of your choice from a dealer due to the scarcity in the last two years.
Of course you can go for higher price models - it's upto you!

 

[sandeepmohan]

Or you think otherwise?

If you read the first post of the FM, you'll understand that the user has limited use of the equipment, is after something simple and easy to operate and isn't looking for full a blown home theater experience. Atleast, that is what I gather. If the requirement has changed and the user now wants a full blown rig, you can stop reading further.

I dont like/care enough about movies to invest the time some of you guys do in getting your HT system up and running. Want something that gives me a decent immersive experience, isnt bright/shrill and can be enjoyed at normal volumes (no reference quality stuff). And most importantly, something that is easy to set up.

Yes, you will get better results from a dedicated AVR, speaker setup. They take space. Its 5 speakers on the floor or wall and then some more on the roof, if the user wants Atmos. Do you really need all this for watching terrestrial TV, sports? If movie watching is not a priority, why do you need so many speakers? What are you going to do with them?

The better (or more expensive) Sound bars sound better than budget Htib's. We are prioritizing simplicity here. Not speakers and wires all over the room. Most modern or higher end sound bars use a lot of trick dsp. The results are quite good. For a small living area, its all you really need. If you want better surround sound focus, get a sound bar with dedicated rear speakers. Its less intrusive that a HT where you need to run speaker cables to the AVR.

Listen to the Bose Soundbar 900 and you will be surprised by the quality of sound. Even without a sub woofer. Dialog is clear. I did not listen at ear splitting levels. It probably won't hold up. For the playback levels one needs at home, it does the job.

 

[vkalia]

Yes, you will get better results from a dedicated AVR, speaker setup. They take space. Its 5 speakers on the floor or wall and then some more on the roof, if the user wants Atmos. Do you really need all this for watching terrestrial TV, sports? If movie watching is not a priority, why do you need so many speakers? What are you going to do with them?

The better (or more expensive) Sound bars sound better than budget Htib's. We are prioritizing simplicity here. Not speakers and wires all over the room. Most modern or higher end sound bars use a lot of trick dsp. The results are quite good. For a small living area, its all you really need. If you want better surround sound focus, get a sound bar with dedicated rear speakers. Its less intrusive that a HT where you need to run speaker cables to the AVR.

Listen to the Bose Soundbar 900 and you will be surprised by the quality of sound. Even without a sub woofer. Dialog is clear. I did not listen at ear splitting levels. It probably won't hold up. For the playback levels one needs at home, it does the job.

Thank you for a reality check. Let me clarify my requirements in a bit more detail and do let me know if that changes things.

So my needs are somewhere between the complete simplicity of a sound bar and the complexity of a full HT installation. Those limiters i had put in my oiriginal post were more to establish a ceiling and avoid people recommending a 5L receiver and 20L speakers I am willing to make some effort for a good system and so that i can enjoy a good movie experience whenever i do watch TV - but i dont want to completely OTT there.

But your point is valid and has helped me pull in some of the scope creep that came up in this thread - no Atmos. I am not gonna bother with ceiling speakers. However, running 2 speaker wires to the back of the listening area should be very doable.

Given this - my assumption is that i will get better sound with a good receiver and good speakers than a soundbar if i am willing to spend 1.5-2L or more. And that seems to be borne out by the JLB Atmos and Bose systems I have heard (the Bose was nice but 1.7L and for the price, i think more traditional speakers and sub would be better).

 

[sandeepmohan]

Given this - my assumption is that i will get better sound with a good receiver and good speakers than a soundbar if i am willing to spend 1.5-2L or more.

Yes off course. There is no doubt about that.
Some fine recommendations have been provided by other members.
I suggest a visit to some AV stores like Pro Fx. Will give you a better idea of what is available and what they sound like.

 

[Phani24]

Go with Denon 2700 and Taga 607 package. It will be with in 1.5 to 2L.

 

[Donivlapog]

Denon 1700h + Q acoustics speakers(3020i and 3010i for LCR and surrounds and heights) + QB12 sub may awe you. Check for local dealers quotation. It may get to 1.75 lakhs. But great value for money.

 

[vkalia]

Yes off course. There is no doubt about that.
Some fine recommendations have been provided by other members.
I suggest a visit to some AV stores like Pro Fx. Will give you a better idea of what is available and what they sound like.

Right, that was always on the card - it was the feature set that i was trying to isolate down.

 

[Donivlapog]

Right, that was always on the card - it was the feature set that i was trying to isolate down.

You did well by skimming into an ocean of topic and got a precis writing shortlist. This forum helps a lot. Love4sound a senior fmer for example has helped me find the right HT consultant and i have had an opportunity to set two HT platforms in my house both 7.2 with a combined cost of 2.5 lakhs only including calibration, cabling, installations, two dual sub woofers, 14 speakers, two AVRs. I profusely thank this news/support group for helping me out. Sandeepmohan has brilliantly replied to your questions to help you derive to a conclusion as what could be the right choice. (Many won't recommend sound bars but his logic in your usecase is very relatable as we all have been in such conundrum before). Keep us posted.

 

[k-pad]

@k-pad - thanks for the detailed comments. Re the audio system, i am ok - I know what i like and it's just a matter of doing some research on specific models and listening to them. Re your points:
- 8k: like i said, i dont see myself going for 8k anytime soon. 4k is more than sufficient for my needs for the next 3-5 years. However, from what I gather, the upgrade to 8k isnt huge - so fair enough, might as well get that
- given that i will only have 1 source (Apply TV) or at most 2 (a video game console - I havent turned my current one since 2019.... so it isnt exactly high priority), super-high-throughput AVRs arent really a requirements.

Given all of this, why do you think i need to spend 10x? Something like a Denon AVR-X1700H or S-760H has 8k, has 7 channels, Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vertical Height Visualization, audio calibration, 120k passthrough. Seems to meet all my requirements and then some. Why spend more?

In general:
I am willing to go 5.1.2 if you guys think that 2 height speakers will provide a significant improvement to my movie experience. What do you guys say? And is pretty much any 7 channel receiver compatible with 5.1.2 - ie, can you toggle between 7.x and 5.x.2?

Rated receiver power is a real issue.
From experince, I'd say we almost never get the rated power per channel.

10X might have been an exaggeration, but I just wanted to convey a few things - 1. rated power is overrated, 2. The more speakers you have, the more the available power is going to get redistributed, and 3. Always better to have some breathing space when it comes to AVRs.

So, yeah, take my 10X comment with a shovel of salt. You should be good with a Denon 1xxx or a 2xxx... for your current requirement... But if you feel the need for something more, you will have to plough the dough for a 3500 or above or an equivalent Marantz.

Atmos, definitely worth it in my limited experience. In fact, am also one of those who keep oscillating between do I need it or don't I.

So far, from my experience, when it kicks in in a well done system with content that has good stuff, a few Ks on overhead speakers will blow your socks off...

Finally another reason to suggest a Denon X or a Marantz SR level purchase at the least is that they offer: 1. That much more rated power, 2. A little peace of mind, and 3. Audyssey MultiEQ...

All of which are worth the trouble, IMHO...
Trust this helps...

 

[sandeepmohan]

Right, that was always on the card - it was the feature set that i was trying to isolate down.

There is little to differentiate in terms of features when it comes to audio video receivers.
I'd pay less attention to the features and focus more on the quality and power of the AVR, speakers.
Most AV receivers will process or decode anything you throw at them. Some will add the benefit of Apple Air Play, Spotify streaming, etc. All of them have some variant of auto room correction. At the most you want to get 5 channel pre outs, if you want to add an external amplifier at a later stage. You'll be heading into a bit more clutter with this so I'll leave that with you. Its not a priority. An AVR with a solid power section and well matched speakers will negate the need for adding a power amplifier.

Focus on 4K for now. We are nowhere near 8k telecast at the moment and even if that changes in the next 2 years, you're looking at a very expensive screen.

Don't cheap out on loudspeakers. Ensure the front channels are good and well matched in terms of specifications. For you're room size, even a bookshelf will work but they need stands so floor space is taken anyway. For surround, even a cheap Polk ES10 will suffice. Get a good sub woofer. Placement is crucial. Ideally; position speakers where the tweeter can be at ear level when seated. This includes placement of the center channel.

Good luck.

 

[vkalia]

Rated receiver power is a real issue.
From experince, I'd say we almost never get the rated power per channel.

10X might have been an exaggeration, but I just wanted to convey a few things - 1. rated power is overrated, 2. The more speakers you have, the more the available power is going to get redistributed, and 3. Always better to have some breathing space when it comes to AVRs.

So, yeah, take my 10X comment with a shovel of salt. You should be good with a Denon 1xxx or a 2xxx... for your current requirement... But if you feel the need for something more, you will have to plough the dough for a 3500 or above or an equivalent Marantz.

Atmos, definitely worth it in my limited experience. In fact, am also one of those who keep oscillating between do I need it or don't I.

So far, from my experience, when it kicks in in a well done system with content that has good stuff, a few Ks on overhead speakers will blow your socks off...

Finally another reason to suggest a Denon X or a Marantz SR level purchase at the least is that they offer: 1. That much more rated power, 2. A little peace of mind, and 3. Audyssey MultiEQ...

All of which are worth the trouble, IMHO...
Trust this helps...

Cheers for that.

Funnily, as someone who found musical bliss with a 3W amplifier, i find even 50W to be more than enough power for most speakers. But point taken that 50W in an AVR is not the same as 50W in a 2-ch amplifier or integrated: there does seem to a lot of fudging going on with the specs when it comes to receivers. And i tend to be very sensitive to clipping/distortion, so this is a timely reminder to not be so blase about power with the AVR as i am with music amps.

 

[vkalia]

There is little to differentiate in terms of features when it comes to audio video receivers.
I'd pay less attention to the features and focus more on the quality and power of the AVR, speakers.
Most AV receivers will process or decode anything you throw at them. Some will add the benefit of Apple Air Play, Spotify streaming, etc. All of them have some variant of auto room correction. At the most you want to get 5 channel pre outs, if you want to add an external amplifier at a later stage. You'll be heading into a bit more clutter with this so I'll leave that with you. Its not a priority. An AVR with a solid power section and well matched speakers will negate the need for adding a power amplifier.

Focus on 4K for now. We are nowhere near 8k telecast at the moment and even if that changes in the next 2 years, you're looking at a very expensive screen.

Don't cheap out on loudspeakers. Ensure the front channels are good and well matched in terms of specifications. For you're room size, even a bookshelf will work but they need stands so floor space is taken anyway. For surround, even a cheap Polk ES10 will suffice. Get a good sub woofer. Placement is crucial. Ideally; position speakers where the tweeter can be at ear level when seated. This includes placement of the center channel.

Good luck.

Fair points. I guess i didnt know whether there were any features i should have been looking out when it came to AVRs or which might have been missing. I didnt want to buy something and find out that it didnt have the ability to do HDMI 2.1 (whatever the hell that is) or throughput 40Gbps (what? why? where) or decode specific surround formats. Which was kinda the purpose of my original post. Good to know that most of them will have the stuff i need.

I dont ever plan to add an external power amp. Your and K-Pads points re ensuring adequate power is well noted - i will make sure of that and beyond that, i firmly believe that up to a point, solid state amps are more or less fungible in terms of sound quality.

Speakers i shouldnt have a problem selecting, so that should be a relatively easy decision.

Thanks again for the help.