When will you move to Projectors?

[Tuhin Lavania]

I started this post and so let me act like a kind of moderator here. No disrespect to anybody here but I wish to have a discussion and not arguements in bad taste. Let's not mudsling and just give inputs with the disclaimer that to each his own.
And to Tuhin Lavania, could you please let me know if I save up 4 lakhs in a matter of a year or a couple months sooner than that by means of a savings I have already started for a year now, just for getting hands on a 77" OLED, can I instead try my hands on a splendid pj on that price range? Is it a better buy ?

See, if you have a dedicated blacked out room the Projector is a no-brainer. A TV ( OLED ) is a absolute joke in a dedicated room.
If not, and with ambient lighting, get a OLED coz its a waste to get a PJ like the NX 5 with such excellent black levels in a room with ambient lighting.
Around 4 lakhs ? Get the JVC NX5. Nothing comes close in performance in that price bracket.

And HDR is not a gimmick on PJs. Please, please take a demo of the current crop of JVC native 4k machines or the newer Sony's ( 715ES ) and then comment on the HDR they display. The JVCs are still at the top when it comes to HDR on Projectors.

And Size and immersion does matter. Show me one guy in the world who prefers to watch movies on his 77 inch OLED and not on his RS3000 on a scopescreen.

 

[bipin1143]

For the past 120 years movies were meant to play on projectors in large screen cinemas in a dark room which gives a temporary hypnotic feel to immerse you in the story. And still there are NO other equipment that can beat this experience without giving eye strain.
OLED is a fantastic Tech but only limited to daily home usage. But becomes more expensive if you cross 65 inch mark.

Look at the cost to performance
300 inch OLED would cost you 20 crore [given samsung' THE WALL' costs 12 crore]
300 inch PJ screen and a good 4k projector would cost 10-20 lacs[for the most decent experience]
And the most important part is the handling
Imagine if you invest 20CR on a massive 300inch OLED and the panel breaks accidentally?
I would always prefer immersion over detail any day

 

[etios]

Something like the Christie Eclipse projector can even best a OLED for picture quality according to this AVS thread, the first page has all the specs and graphs/readings:

The Christie Eclipse Projector Owner's Thread

RESOURCES: • CHRISTIE WEBSITE | CHRISTIE ECLIPSE OVERVIEW DOWNLOADABLE PDF DOCUMENTS: • CHRISTIE ECLIPSE HIGH CONTRAST 4K HDR RGB LASER PROJECTOR - REVIEW • CHRISTIE ECLIPSE - PRODUCT INFORMATION SHEET • CHRISTIE ECLIPSE - TECHNICAL INFORMATION SHEET .

www.avsforum.com

 

[lightgamer]

Something like the Christie Eclipse projector can even best a OLED for picture quality according to this AVS thread, the first page has all the specs and graphs/readings:

The Christie Eclipse Projector Owner's Thread

RESOURCES: • CHRISTIE WEBSITE | CHRISTIE ECLIPSE OVERVIEW DOWNLOADABLE PDF DOCUMENTS: • CHRISTIE ECLIPSE HIGH CONTRAST 4K HDR RGB LASER PROJECTOR - REVIEW • CHRISTIE ECLIPSE - PRODUCT INFORMATION SHEET • CHRISTIE ECLIPSE - TECHNICAL INFORMATION SHEET .

www.avsforum.com

Now we're talking about crores worth of products. This will compete with the Micro LED based installations which also cost similar amount.

 

[Prameet]

And HDR is not a gimmick on PJs. Please, please take a demo of the current crop of JVC native 4k machines or the newer Sony's ( 715ES ) and then comment on the HDR they display. The JVCs are still at the top when it comes to HDR on Projectors.

Limited brightness, the impossibility of local dimming, low contrast ratios, and often, limited color reproduction, largely means that HDR on projectors won't look nearly as good as it does on TVs. It's often barely HDR at all.

All projectors use one of three technologies: DLP, LCD, and LCOS. LCoS, available in projectors made by Sony and JVC, has the best contrast ratio of any of the projector techs, but even it falls far short of what OLED and local dimming LCDs can do. DLP and LCD, which together make up the bulk of the home projector market, don't have anything close to the contrast ratio.

With a projector it's not possible to dim specific pixels (as it is with OLED) or even larger areas of the image (like LCD local dimming). So a section of the image can only be as bright or dark as the image chip can make it, and in all projectors, that's far less than what flat panel TVs can do.

 

[Donivlapog]

What about heat? How much of heat can a pj withstand? Can a 10.00-17.00 hrs cricket match be played continuously by a pj for 5 days non stop? What are the legal ramifications for having a home theater with pj as is there a fire safety standards licence needed like commercial cinemas require? Would the elderly in a hall pj setup find it more attractive than TVs with bright screens? And above all how much would lamp replacement cost for a high cost pj?

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

For everyday use, get a flat panel.
TVs are great in the kitchen or in the living room with ambient light.

Projectors rule undisputed in a light controlled room for several, several reasons. Size, and being able to put the center channel behind the screen being number 1 and number 2 on the list.
And please, no viewing angle crap again like the dude above said lol.

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

What about heat? How much of heat can a pj withstand? Can a 10.00-17.00 hrs cricket match be played continuously by a pj for 5 days non stop? What are the legal ramifications for having a home theater with pj as is there a fire safety standards licence needed like commercial cinemas require? Would the elderly in a hall pj setup find it more attractive than TVs with bright screens? And above all how much would lamp replacement cost

What about heat? How much of heat can a pj withstand? Can a 10.00-17.00 hrs cricket match be played continuously by a pj for 5 days non stop? What are the legal ramifications for having a home theater with pj as is there a fire safety standards licence needed like commercial cinemas require? Would the elderly in a hall pj setup find it more attractive than TVs with bright screens? And above all how much would lamp replacement cost for a high cost pj?

I think there shouldnt be a problem given the PJ is properly ventilated. For me, i use it strictly for movies. For everything else, i have a 65 incher and a 24 inch monitor for online FPS games like Halo, basically only Halo.
For a Projector like the NX 5, you are realistically looking at a 2500-3000 hour lamp life in low mode. JVC states 4500 hours in low lamp but i doubt it. For Sony, they rate 6000 hours in low.
JVC lamps are costly. Around 70k with the entire assembly if im not wrong. But if you buy the bare bulb, it should be around 25k. Someone who knows better than me here can chime in.
Lamp life, basically isnt a huge problem for me as i use it strictly for movies and around 15 hours a week. So im looking at a 25k,30k expense after 3 years and i dont find it very much.

 

[Prameet]

For everyday use, get a flat panel.
TVs are great in the kitchen or in the living room with ambient light.

Projectors rule undisputed in a light controlled room for several, several reasons. Size, and being able to put the center channel behind the screen being number 1 and number 2 on the list.
And please, no viewing angle crap again like the dude above said lol.

Agree with all you points when SDR was the only content available. Nothing could beat a projector when it came to watching movies then.

As of now most of the 4k Blu-ray's are HDR/Dolbyvision compatible and NO PJ CAN DO REAL HDR(irrespective of the fact that it's labelled HDR)

I can give up a bigger screen(120")and all the other things you mentioned for real HDR display(77"oled). Priorities!!

 

[Donivlapog]

And please, no viewing angle crap again like the dude above said lol.

That is something I left out in my set of questions! What's wrong in that argument anyways? 65" at 6 feet compared to 12 feet away from a 120" screen leads to a simple mathematical proportion equation. What lightgamer says is something I have to experience everyday as my bedroom 65" TV is just 6-7 feet away from my bed and when I watch something from that angle and at that distance it looks really theatrical. When I sit 8 feet away from my hall 75" TV it is almost the same. And hopefully when I have my hall converted into a HT with pj it would easily be a 120- 150" at about 12 to 20 feet viewing distance. I imagine it would not change the dynamics much. I might just get started with a Mickey mouse (budget) LED projector 1080 for 20k, see how it works with black screen clothes to cover the windows and maybe graduate to a native 4k in a few months. I also find TVs beyond a size pointless to keep upgrading as my 75" TV taught me. 65" is the true benchmark and saturation point for flat panels and beyond that calls for a PJ.

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

That is something I left out in my set of questions! What's wrong in that argument anyways? 65" at 6 feet compared to 12 feet away from a 120" screen leads to a simple mathematical proportion equation. What lightgamer says is something I have to experience everyday as my bedroom 65" TV is just 6-7 feet away from my bed and when I watch something from that angle and at that distance it looks really theatrical. When I sit 8 feet away from my hall 75" TV it is almost the same. And hopefully when I have my hall converted into a HT with pj it would easily be a 120- 150" at about 12 to 20 feet viewing distance. I imagine it would not change the dynamics much. I might just get started with a Mickey mouse (budget) LED projector 1080 for 20k, see how it works with black screen clothes to cover the windows and maybe graduate to a native 4k in a few months. I also find TVs beyond a size pointless to keep upgrading as my 75" TV taught me. 65" is the true benchmark and saturation point for flat panels and beyond that calls for a PJ.

Whats wrong in the argument is you cant sit 5ft away from a 65 incher unless you want to toast your eyes with the direct light coming off the screen. I have that sized screen and i know it.
And in a blacked out room ? Forget about it lol

One more point. If you fail to identify the dynamics between a 75 and a 120 inch image why even bother going that large ? Is there a point in going to a 150 or a 200 inch screen when the similar viewing experience and immersion can be achieved with a much smaller screen ?

 

[Donivlapog]

Whats wrong in the argument is you cant sit 5ft away from a 65 incher unless you want to toast your eyes with the direct light coming off the screen. I have that sized screen and i know it.
And in a blacked out room ? Forget about it lol

One more point. If you fail to identify the dynamics between a 75 and a 120 inch image why even bother going that large ? Is there a point in going to a 150 or a 200 inch screen when the similar viewing experience and immersion can be achieved with a much smaller screen ?

Very valid points. But like Satan says in Paradise lost "The mind is a place of its own and in itself can make hell of heaven, heaven of hell", the size matters if there is provision for it. The bigger the better. In my room TV due to space constraints or the lack of it thereof I cannot aim to go beyond the beyond. In my hall, a dining table is situated almost 20 feet from the 75" TV making it appear like a 40" TV at 10'. It is here that a solution is required and I don't think even an 85" TV can be satisfactory. Maybe in future a 100-120 " TV might find its way commercially available to public. Still a panel repair cannot be discounted and I don't want a Ganapathi mourya stunt show in logistics. A pj is just going to be easy on portability factor, but for its lack of progress in HDR technology and fact that in three years time the accumulated corpus of my target buy - a big sized OLED might be a retired technology like plasma did! So plan B is always a good 4k PJ and who knows they'd have made a technological breakthrough by then. In the end it will always be the road not taken.

 

[krunalkamdar]

Can we really sit at the recommended distance of approx 5-8 feets from a 65 inch 4k tv and watch the content without hurting your eyes. Are these recommendations for real?

 

[Love4sound]

Can we really sit at the recommended distance of approx 5-8 feets from a 65 inch 4k tv and watch the content without hurting your eyes. Are these recommendations for real?

I have a 65inch Oled and my viewing distance is about 7-7.5 feet. Some times I lie down infront of my recliner and watch movies which is 6-7 feet. My room is also pitch dark and Oled is very easy and comfortable for the eyes. There is 0 eye strain. Can’t say every one will feel the same but for me 6-8 feet on a 65 inch Oled is very easy on the eyes.

 

[superczar]

I am probably rehashing a lot of what has already been said - but as a regular user of both a PJ and a TV, here are my 2 paise on the topic.

If I had to choose only one device - it would be the TV hands down. As trivial as this may sound, The instant on and the no need to blackout if its day time are very important factors in day to day usage . Its because of these two reasons that the TVs get used about 75% of the time.

But when it comes to the remaining 25% usage on the PJ, the conversation usually goes like this:
“This movie/ series seems very good, let’s watch it in the HT room"
And this part does not change whether its a HDR video or not. The dynamic range one actually gets to see on a well setup 1080p projector somehow looks better than a 4K HDR TV without exception.

 

[rrunner]

Try watching a panning shot on a projector and big screen 75 inch+ tv you will see that projector wins.
HDR may be the only redeeming factor for OLED but for watching regular Netflix HD content it hardly matters.
I have been using projectors for the last 15+ years with average usage of 2-3 hours per day with zero eye strain. can't say the same about TV because it causes eyestrain beyond 1 hour in a darkroom and about 2 hours in the living room.

 

[ssf]

How good are the short throw projectors ? I feel they are easier to deal with in normal living rooms.

 

[lightgamer]

Try watching a panning shot on a projector and big screen 75 inch+ tv you will see that projector wins.

Most projectors are 60Hz, which means that they will always need to do 3:2 pulldown to natively play 24fps content. 120Hz TVs on the other hand can use 5:5 pulldown and hence play 24Hz content without any judder.

Not to mention that input lag and response times are horrendous on projectors, making them useless for HFR content, PC use and gaming.

HDR may be the only redeeming factor for OLED but for watching regular Netflix HD content it hardly matters

90% of content releasing now is 4k HDR, neither of which can be done on a projector without spending 5+ lakhs. Pixel shift from 1080p does not count.

Even Indian TV shows releasing now are in at least 4k with some in HDR too, and this will rapidly pick up.

I have been using projectors for the last 15+ years with average usage of 2-3 hours per day with zero eye strain. can't say the same about TV because it causes eyestrain beyond 1 hour in a darkroom and about 2 hours in the living room.

Just yesterday I watched fast and furious 9 (not a great movie) in 4k HDR with 1000 nit mastering. My TV can hit 700 nits and I watched it in pitch dark room with two others. None of us had any eye strain after 2.5 hours, not even close.

There's no technological reason for projectors to be easier on the eyes except they are dimmer. HDR is graded to be watched in a dark room. For SDR, you can just lower the brightness on your TV to match the projector.

If you're gonna watch SDR content on a TV in dark with high brightness, obviously it will cause eye strain and headache.

I'd love buying a projector for the 100" goodness. But unless I spend at least 10-15 lakhs, I won't get one which can do decent HDR and true 4k (no pixel shift nonsense).

I'm more hopeful of 90-100" TVs getting affordable than projectors getting good enough for 4k HDR. Projector and PC monitor tech are incredibly slow moving and lazy.

 

[Donivlapog]

Projector in a seperate audio video room is good. But in a house in the hall and bedroom or kitchen(in some cases) projectors are out of place. Heat, non-user friendliness,wear and tear and bad choice for gaming and sports channel viewing are some of the practical issues.

 

[msankadi]

Projector in a seperate audio video room is good. But in a house in the hall and bedroom or kitchen(in some cases) projectors are out of place. Heat, non-user friendliness,wear and tear and bad choice for gaming and sports channel viewing are some of the practical issues.

I would disagree.. I have myh Epson TW9400 set in my hall and I have a movable table which I have put it on. I wheel it in and use whenever needed roughly 3 4 hours a day. Have a 150 inch screen projected on the wall. Can't feel the noise. I don't sit right next to the projector so can't tell the heat. Obviously my hall is quite big so I don't face issues but I am guessing that's an obvious requirement for a projector to make sense