Who’d you select for the first test against New Zealand?

[prem]

None of the fast bowlers in the team are actually swing bowlers in the classic mould. Maybe they should have taken Chahar since Bhuvi was injured. Traditionally swing bowlers have done very well in NZ

 

[mpw]

Pant failed again with the bat but he is a certainty for the next test too.

Maybe the skip wants a good baby sitter in the team.

 

[mpw]

None of the fast bowlers in the team are actually swing bowlers in the classic mould. Maybe they should have taken Chahar since Bhuvi was injured. Traditionally swing bowlers have done very well in NZ

I agree..here

 

[Deleted member 15865]

None of the fast bowlers in the team are actually swing bowlers in the classic mould. Maybe they should have taken Chahar since Bhuvi was injured. Traditionally swing bowlers have done very well in NZ

Agree partly. Though the idea is to select your best bowlers. Chahar is mostly seen as a limited overs bowler - even in domestic cricket his T20 average (including IPL) is 20, list A (domestic ODI) is 29 and long format is 35!

Also, the bowler that has taken by far the most wickets in the series so far - Jamieson is a hit the deck seam bowler and not a classic swing bowler (like Boult).

Pant failed again with the bat but he is a certainty for the next test too.

Maybe the skip wants a good baby sitter in the team.

Unless KL Rahul takes up keeping gloves in Tests too and bats at no.5/6. Though I’d like him to open - but when Sharma comes back, we’d have a surfeit of opening batsmen. Saha would only be a poor replacement to Pant - gone are the days when you selected a keeper only for his keeping skills, and that too someone who is past his prime.

 

[mpw]

to my mind what has crossed the sell by date is the team managements bull headed-ness about presisting with Pant who has not done any favors to himself or the team in keeping or batting..

remember the baby sitting photo - when was it - 2 - 3 years ago ??

2 years is a hell of a long leash...and dare i say - at the cost of other more deserving careers.

KL Rahul donning gloves in all 3 formats will shorten his fitness and use by date as well - IMO.

atleast saha keeps better than Pant and is a much better test batsman IMO

If past his prime - is to be judged by age - then we arent on the same page on this one.

 

[arj]

While we can theoretically select a team..in the end its how each individual performs that matters . I am pretty sure even Rohit may not have been too successful here since he has a bad record against swing anyway

Pant is getting to be simply irritating now and we cannot afford to have a harebrained no 6 and one cannot put that on the feedback everyone is giving him If he cant sort out on basis common sense he should not be in the team.

We sure are missing Bhuvi..

 

[Deleted member 15865]

atleast saha keeps better than Pant and is a much better test batsman IMO

Lets agree to differ on the second part of that statement. Saha doesn’t have a single innings of substance outside of India and West Indies. Rishabh only needs to marry his (demonstrated) talent with (necessary) temperament.

If past his prime - is to be judged by age - then we arent on the same page on this one.

Age matters. It did for Dhoni too. Some of us look at ‘What is” while some of us look at “What can be”? And on the second question, I see hope from Pant, not Saha.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

.- This NZ lineup won’t have more than two left-handers. And the pitch is unlikely to offer Ashwin much turn (and Vihari can pitch in with his off-spin if needed). Jadeja can do as effective a job as Ashwin of holding one end up and giving respite to the seamers. His fielding saves 15-20 runs per innings and he can get an odd run-out even in Test matches.

Another one of my pick proves himself. While Ashwin was ineffective in providing timely breakthroughs and was expensive, Jadeja picked two (right handed bats) already for just 11 runs. And add that splendid catch that Ashwin can only dream of taking. I presume that he will be only further effective in the fourth innings.

- Navdeep Saini ahead of the ‘fresh from injury’ Ishant is a like to like substitution and a promising one too with his pace and bounce inching slightly ahead of his equally lanky senior.

Ishant’s fastracking from injury was short lived and as it appears now, poor judgement by the physio. Navdeep Saini could have been India’s Jamieson with the ball. Umesh and Shami are more identical and Shami was enough. We’ve seen Bumrah do better than these two on this pitch where there’s better carry and Navdeep, with his express speed and disconcerting bounce could have been lethal.

 

[mpw]

Lets agree to differ on the second part of that statement. Saha doesn’t have a single innings of substance outside of India and West Indies. Rishabh only needs to marry his (demonstrated) talent with (necessary) temperament.

Let's agree also that pant has got a long rope much longer than Saha.

The marriage of potential and opportunities to translate into runs and catches isn't happening..for Pant

Maybe the wedding planner ran away

He needs to be shoved back into the wilderness and needs to earn his cap and his meals.
Bèen free riding for long

These are at least 2 wickkeepers waiting in the wings

Age matters. It did for Dhoni too. Some of us look at ‘What is” while some of us look at “What can be”? And on the second question, I see hope from Pant, not Saha.

From a management point of view it's a sad statement I see here..

Age doesn't matter only performance does IMO.

Anyways it's ok to disagree

Life goes on

 

[Deleted member 15865]

From a management point of view it's a sad statement I see here..

Age doesn't matter only performance does IMO.

Anyways it's ok to disagree

Life goes on

The difference between ‘performance’ and ‘potential’ has eluded many a recruiters and selectors. So, not surprised.

Those who miss this also bayed for Rahul’s blood after an inconsistent run in 2018-19. They also gave up on Rohit Sharma many a times during his career. When you sense match-winning potential in someone, you’ve got to back them over the steady performers who will keep making inconsequential contributions.

 

[arj]

Since we are talking about a balance of Long term (Potential) and short term (performance) benefits, opinions are bound to differ on how much % to give to each. While mpw might have a higher weightage on Performance , Sachin has it on Potential.

In the end Both of you have a point but either view does not matter and only Shastri's and Kohlis does

 

[Deleted member 15865]

In the end Both of you have a point but either view does not matter and only Shastri's and Kohlis does

@arj, that’s a bit dampening as it takes away the premise of the thread altogether. Fans are what fans do. They don’t play or captain or coach or select. But they are valuable for the game in their own way.

 

[arj]

Just some perspective which we all know

 

[mpw]

The difference between ‘performance’ and ‘potential’ has eluded many a recruiters and selectors. So, not surprised.

Those who miss this also bayed for Rahul’s blood after an inconsistent run in 2018-19. They also gave up on Rohit Sharma many a times during his career. When you sense match-winning potential in someone, you’ve got to back them over the steady performers who will keep making inconsequential contributions.

I quote your own post when you said 8-10 continuous matches for a newcomer .

I agree with that.

Pant has had much more.

Saha has had much less in terms of a continuous run.

In.my books is time to go back to Saha or try Samson speaking of which he is no less a potential than Pant but hasn't been blessed to have a persistent mentor in the team or in the board.

 

[mpw]

Just some perspective which we all know

Agree..

Which is Why it's time for me to leave this thread.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

I quote your own post when you said 8-10 continuous matches for a newcomer .

I agree with that.

Pant has had much more.

Saha has had much less in terms of a continuous run.

Wonder what makes you say that! Pant has played 12 tests against Saha’s 37. While Pant has a test average of 42, Saha’s is just 30. Pant also has a superior first class average (49) than Saha (42) or Samson (37).

 

[arj]

Sachin, do you have a comparison of their keeping skills ?
I don't know how to compare that..batting wise pant might have the edge , it could also be about what he gives away for what he gets

 

[arj]

Agree..

Which is Why it's time for me to leave this thread.

Hey..that's like quitting a cable thread based on measurements !!!!

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Sachin, do you have a comparison of their keeping skills ?
I don't know how to compare that..batting wise pant might have the edge , it could also be about what he gives away for what he gets

Arjun, I don’t know if wicketkeeping stats are as revealing as batting stats. But while Saha has 92 catches and 11 stumpings in 37 tests, Pant has 55 catches and 2 stumpings in 12 tests which can erroneously indicate that Pant is a better keeper. As I’ve said earlier, I prefer Pant ahead of Saha not for his keeping skills (though I believe his skills are adequate), but for his batting ability. In overseas tests, Indian batting always needs reinforcement from the WK and no.8.

As for keeper’s value, I don’t think it’s limited to just the glove work. A keeper plays significant role in keeping the fielding unit eager and the bowlers motivated, especially when the chips are down. Pant, with his gregarious attitude and chirpiness fits into Kohli’s scheme of things better in this than the reticent, almost aloof Saha. Just like we can’t evaluate a component’s worth entirely on its own merit, but also how it syncs with the rest of the system, so it is with players too. In this respect players like Pant and Jadeja score over Saha and Ashwin.

 

[arj]

Overall figures..parthiv also does not look too bad in Dismisals /Innings but he is not along term prospect. Saha's propensity for injury is worrying though !
1. As Wicketkeeper (no idea to find out Byes given)

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Dis	Ct	St	Ct Wk	Ct Fi	MD	D/I
WP Saha	2015-2019	33	64	97	86	11	86	0	6 (5ct 1st)	1.515
RR Pant	2018-2020	13	25	60	58	2	58	0	6 (6ct 0st)	2.400
PA Patel	2016-2018	5	10	23	21	2	21	0	4 (4ct 0st)	2.300

2. As a Batsman Pant is better but..Saha has 9 Not Outs (all in India)t which interesting and which might show an ability to bat out with the tail ?


Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
WP Saha	2015-2019	33	42	9	1091	117	33.06	2322	46.98	3	5	4	108	10
RR Pant	2018-2020	13	21	1	810	159*	40.50	1173	69.05	2	2	1	83	19