Venkat,
Are yo dividing only by the diagonal dimension?, because though it is a measure of the cost but it is not per SQUARE inch.
Cheers
Why are LCD/Plamas so costly ?
- Thread starter The_Falcon
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Venkat,
Are yo dividing only by the diagonal dimension?, because though it is a measure of the cost but it is not per SQUARE inch.
Cheers
well if sony has to maintain the no1 in sales which it enjoyed in the CRT world,yes they have to lower the price.
if u look at the sony india press release in their website,their target was to become the market leader by Q3 of 09,from the looks of it they are currently at no 3 in sales,after samsung and LG.they were No2 in 07.
if u look at international sales they are again roughly at no3,yet their tv business along with Playstation business are posting hefty losses.meaning they are loosing money on every tv that is sold,perhaps not in india.according to their tv business head,they will start making profits or stop lossing money only from next year.
regarding LG i kind a disagree,their current models with local dimming ones are quite good.
but from next year i think i agree,since manfactures like sharp and sony are launching lcds with new tech,that has improvements in every area,samsung showed a prototype of their new tech way back in 07 or 08 and is slated to hit the mass production in 2011.other companies like toshiba,sony,samsung which source panels from AUO again are launching tv with AUO 15000:1 contrast ratio panels.
where as LG with its current tech can never match those.
Ooops. You are absolutely right. I have corrected the original post and added price per diagonal inch and per square inch. Sorry for the goof up.
Cheers
You cannot compare a 22" LCD with a 21" CRT.
The 21"CRT is substantially bigger in terms of viewing area, due to its 4:3 dimension.
As the starter of the thread pointed, if a car with so many hitech parts can be made for 1 lakh, why can't a respectable LCD TV be made at a cheaper price..and mind you Nano is also a new technolgy. And TATA has invested more than a billion dollars in development alone. I'm sure that none of these TV makers would have invested even half of that amount in R&D.
And 25 years back when Colour TV were in the nascent stage, they didn't cost a bomb. Almost every middle class home was able to buy one, and mind you the middle class of the early 80's didn't earn as much as the middle class of today..
longshanks
Well-Known Member
I don't think Skoda being marketed as a luxury car here is bad specially since even Honda,Toyota,Nissan,Ford and Mitsubishi are considered luxury brands here.The image Skoda is enjoying here is because of its build and feel similar to other European cars such as Audi,BMW or Merc which the Japasese brands(Except for Nissan) fail to offer.
I feel that a particular brand being marketed as premium in one country while it is not in other holds true not just for India but for many other countries as well, Including developed countries.Owning a Mercedes E or a BMW 5 series in Monaco is not luxury but the same is luxury in USA or U.K.
About the pricing part, I agree that every Car sold here in India is priced real bad and the premium image these average brands hold here does play a vital part in the same.
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at same time one can ask why are speaker,amps costing so much,some in lakhs.why do u think intel or AMD sell some chips at Rs40k+ i know they cost only about $10 or less to manufacture.
i am sure tv manufactures have invested a lot in R&D,for eg lcds have come a long when they were used first in watches,calculators etc to todays HD lcds,its years of R&D billions of dollars spent.why do u think OLED are so expensive right know.
25 years ago not all could afford a color tv,cost of living those days was far less then todays,the value for money those days was high,u could get a maruthi 800 or even a gypsy for 1lakh,todays the same gypsy would cost about 5 to 6lakh.
comparing 25 years ago to today is a moot point.
psychotropic
Well-Known Member
hehe, i am finding it amusing that people actually believe that cost of components is the primary factor in determining the sale price. It has only a slight relation......this is like assuming the true merit of an employee is the ground on which his salary is decided......that's in some idealistic world.....
the TV seller will sell the TV at a price at which the market is willing to pay, and covers his margins well enough for him to make a tidy profit. Much like your employer will pay you the lowest amount he can afford to pay you and not have you leave and join someone else.
Like people have said, in India FPDs are luxury items....and low volume high margin is still the way to go.......the balance is slowly shifting and perhaps in 2-3 years there will be a decline in pricing levels.
Welcome to the laissez faire economy
the TV seller will sell the TV at a price at which the market is willing to pay, and covers his margins well enough for him to make a tidy profit. Much like your employer will pay you the lowest amount he can afford to pay you and not have you leave and join someone else.
Like people have said, in India FPDs are luxury items....and low volume high margin is still the way to go.......the balance is slowly shifting and perhaps in 2-3 years there will be a decline in pricing levels.
Welcome to the laissez faire economy
Really? May I know how?
Why only Lcds and Plasmas , you consider any A/V Gear and it cost a lot more then that of USA. If not wrong the duty structure is 25 to 30 percent , then the suspicion is on the dealers forcing us to pay more by increasing their profit margin.........When can we have a truly competitive market. God alone knows.
Audiophile speakers don't sell a million pieces every year. It's a niche product,
wheras LCD tv is a mass consumer product. It's like comparing a GROHE to a Parryware.
Again it's the same case with those high priced Chips. the ones that cost 40k are for the high end Graphics professionals or Gamers.
When Maruti 800 was launched in 84 the Non-AC version cost Rs.70k.
Today it costs Rs 1.9 Lakh for the AC version.
If you take the inflation @ 8% it should be selling at more than 3 Lakhs.
but it's not so..
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Typical size of 21" CRT screen 17 x 12.5 = 212.5 sq inches
Typical size of 22" LCD screen 18.5 x 10 = 185 sq inches
A difference of roughly 14 % and mind you we are comparing 21 vs 22.
If it were 22 vs 22 the difference will be 24 %
and again if you wan't to see a DTH telecast without any distortion,
i.e in the original 4:3 format, then the max size of the picture in 22" LCD
is 13.5 x 10 = 135 sq inches which is a whopping 40% less than 21 %CRT
similarly a 32" LCD is smaller than a 29" CRT by around 25% when watching in undistorted 4:3 format
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well lcds or flat panels have only taken off in the last 5 years,the market share of lcds/plasma in india is still very less compared to crt.
do note the world is bigger then this forum,millions of people in india still own 14" crts and that too only when the government provided them for free.
if they all start to buy flat panels when they can afford then,the prices will fall faster.
so lcd and plasma are still a niche product for the majority of the indians,just like for many in this forum where a OLED is still a niche product would anyone here buy the 11" OLED as a monitor for 1 lakh,or for that matter how many people even buy professional lcd monitors,majority can only afford the cheap TN based lcds.
now in order for you to buy OLED in the future,you have to thank the early adopters who purchased that at a premium,or if the indian villagers want to buy a lcd in the comings years,(i bet it will be cheaper then CRTs),they have to thanks the early adopters
about chips like i said for intel the manufacturing cost of a celeron is the same as a extreme edition core i7 etc.they still need to get back the amount spent on R&D or to develop the next generation chips.
regarding cars manufacturing cars in 1984 is different from today in terms of efficienct,recycling,cheaper plastics,lesser human needed etc.
i have seen cars made in 87 without a single visible rust,compared to todays cars from the same manufactures which starts to rust within 4 years,in the same house.so again quality does take a hit be it electronics,cars and what not.
Just because majority of Indians can't afford a LCD, that doesn't make it is a niche product. If you take the same yardstick, 32% of India is BPL and they
don't have access to even a radio which costs Rs.150. That doesn't make radio a niche product.
And nobody over here is talking about OLED or any new techology.
We are only talking about normal LCD's of 26" to 40" which have been around
for quite sometime.
"The cars made in 87 are better than todays"..thats not true..
Cars today are far superior in terms of technology, comfort, safety features, fuel effieciency and what not..
most modern cars have multiple coatings to prevent rust..which older cars didn't have..and many maufacturers today are offering Rust free warranty too. then again rust is a region specific problem. Coastal areas where humidity is more, rusting happens very fast. The same car that doesn't rust for 4 years in a place like Trivandrum will rust within 2 years in Chennai.
psychotropic
Well-Known Member
so nirrej what is your point?
The fact is that FPDs do not have volumes in India, and these CE companies need to look at their bottomlines...and in the absence of volumes where do you go? margins!...add to this the fact that they are still perceived as luxury goods (they are nirrej, the population on hifivision is not a sample of the population of india).....there is absolutely no reason for the CE companies to sell the FPDs for a lower price. This is why they cost a fair bit in India.
Once incomes go up, adoption gets more widespread, and volumes increase (and yes cost of production decreases), the CE companies will be able to reduce the prices. Already prices are dropping. I bought a 42" plasma a year and a half back for 55k. Similar model is now available for 40k. By late 2010 i wouldn't be surprised if it fell below 30k.
The fact is that FPDs do not have volumes in India, and these CE companies need to look at their bottomlines...and in the absence of volumes where do you go? margins!...add to this the fact that they are still perceived as luxury goods (they are nirrej, the population on hifivision is not a sample of the population of india).....there is absolutely no reason for the CE companies to sell the FPDs for a lower price. This is why they cost a fair bit in India.
Once incomes go up, adoption gets more widespread, and volumes increase (and yes cost of production decreases), the CE companies will be able to reduce the prices. Already prices are dropping. I bought a 42" plasma a year and a half back for 55k. Similar model is now available for 40k. By late 2010 i wouldn't be surprised if it fell below 30k.
well lcds are still a niche product for many,well its true that lcd have been their for quite some time,no doubt.
but color lcds were limited to small sizes mostly used for instrument consoles,rear seat lcd in aircrafts. large screen lcds existed only in company labs,reason they had lots of problems back then like backlight panel life,yields,technolgical challenges.do note even today significant amount of panels are rejected due to dead pixels and what not.
also how many people would have bought a 32" lcd priced at 3 lakh today,very few.the fact is they have gotten cheaper overtime,they will be cheaper then crt one day.currently a 32" lcd panel costs 9k for companies like sony or anyother manfacturer to buy,add the cost of backlight about 4k and other electronics,it will end up being more expensive then a CRTs.
also companies make higher profit at higher range models,to no profit or very less or even loss in low end models.
like the PS3 sony made lesser loss in the 60gb version then the 20gb version.
if u think all lcd venders are making huge profits well they don't ,many post huge losses mostly in selling 26",32" panels,only in the really big size lcds do they make decent profits like 46"+.
i never said cars in 87 are better,i don't know from where u made that up.
all i said was cars made in the 87 rusts less then todays cars.
you can have all the coatings u like on the car,but their is also the quality of steel used.
in my village my great grandparents house was built in 1930s its steel gates which were installed a few years later were painted with red oxide the day it was installed,never again was it painted,no signs of rust even today,it looks old but no rust.where as my newer parents house whose gates were rebuilt some 10years ago located next to my great grandparents house,with all kinds of coating including spray painted with car paint started to rust within 5 years.
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psychotropic
Well-Known Member
and just to clarify.....trivandrum is very much on the coast....shankhumukham beach and all that.....chennai is just somehow an awfully rust prone place....hell my microwave's body panels are rusting
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The_Falcon
Member
Is the Sales tax/duty structure in India to blame ? Just check the link below for one of the UK retailer...and they are not as big as the Walmarts and Amazon of USA. But yet sell @ quite low prices even after u convert it to INR. Assuming the cost of living in UK will be higher and the salary paid is obviously higher (min payrate/hr is 5.20 and anyone earning below 1,200/month considered below poverty level). So do you think Electronic companies here are creaming the market ?
Richer Sounds - The UK's Hi-Fi, Home Cinema & Flat Panel TV Specialists!
NOTE: Link courtesy Thad E Ginathom
Richer Sounds - The UK's Hi-Fi, Home Cinema & Flat Panel TV Specialists!
NOTE: Link courtesy Thad E Ginathom
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Do you see any CRTs being sold in footpaths? I mean serious branded ones. I am sure branded LCDs will never be sold in footpaths.
You have to understand the manufacturing cycle to realise the cost of products. The cost of setting up an LCD panel manufacturing plant is somewhere around 1.5 billion dollars. A LCD TV manufacturing plant will cost another, say, 1 billion dollars. Add nearly 40% to advertising and other overheads. So you are talking about 3.4 billion dollars for a TV as its costs. At 45 Rupees to a dollar this works out to Rs.15,750 crores.
Let us assume that the life of a particular series is 5 years. If we accept your 15,000 a piece, the company/companies must sell 105 million pieces in 5 years to break even. And you know what is India's contribution? It is 700,000 pieces per year all told. Indians actually buy close to 11 million CRTs a year. So don't expect anything dramatical to happen. These high costs have forced many companies to shut down their panel manufacturing and buy from others or join hands with others.
Companies such as Sensei or others will always be there selling cheap and badly made products. The regular brands have never been affected by that and they don't care. Worst case, they will find ways of shutting down those units. If Samsung, LG, Sony and others tell E-Zone stop Sensei or stop our product, who will they go with? I will give you just one guess.
Cheers
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The_Falcon
Member
@Venkatcr
whoops ! 1.5 billion dollars...thats a lot. One can setup a whole new small town with that money !
whoops ! 1.5 billion dollars...thats a lot. One can setup a whole new small town with that money !
well people still spend 25 to 33k on mobilephones,even when there are the chinese mobiles priced at 5k.
lcd in footpaths may be 10inch size or less ,due u expect anyone to sell 22" or higher sized lcd in foot paths,i for one haven't even seen 14" crt tvs in foot path,simply because of the size factor.
well in the name of R&D employees do get paid a lot,its costs a lot to develop new tech,solar panels have been their for more then few decades,the cost is still far from cheap.i am sure the government and even the companies would like it to be cheaper,since its greener,but it isn't cheap .simply because they can't make it cheaper with todays tech and manufacturing process.
now take for eg OLED i am sure companies want to launch biggere OLED but they can't.to make it cheaper and increase the panel life,they are spending millions on R&D.if u do want one now expect to pay a huge premium,just like that in lcd and plasma pay the premium,remember no one is forcing you to buy lcd or plasma.
i am sorry but where did u get the figure of 400watts for a 40" lcd,even a 55" lcds these days won't even go close to that figure.
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