why i didnt like hx750 / 850 ?

[musicbee]

There is no point buying a Ferrari and say that it should not be judged for Indian roads. Others are welcome to disagree.

Cheers.

Depends on how many Ferrari's you have seen running on Indian roads? I've only come across 1 till date. It goes to say that people who can afford a Ferrari and buy one will not be driving with the common man on Indian roads. Most will either settle in the US or in Europe with a private villa or live in an upmarket part of the city with the rest of the Indian elite... and we all know how well things are for them with regards to better roads, power cuts, water supply, etc.

Anyways I have to agree that the ST50 is an exceptional TV that does both SD and HD content extremely well. After reading your thread I convinced a friend to go in for that TV and he is a very happy camper having got it for 96K.

Unfortunately though most LCD/LED TVs don't handle SD content as well as the Panny plasmas.

 

[avmaxfan]

@neubee

The HX750/HX850's X-Reality PRO video processing engine is amongst the best in the industry when it comes to upscaling poor quality feed, but you must keep in mind that showrooms use HDMI splitter and the already poor quality feed is distributed among multiple sets.

And then there are other factors = like settings etc

 

[Dirac]

OT - I'm not sure what's the bitrate of the HD movies on Tata Sky but the quality is not all that great. I've ripped my Avatar BD and checked it with rips of various sizes. Even a 4.4 GB rip (with DD) has much more detail than the TV/Tata Sky version and this was compressed from the original BD... so I'm sure the compression with TV channels is even worse. Lots of detail and color was missing on the Tata Sky/Star Movies version.

I've tested with various movies (Harry Potter, Thor, etc.) and the recorded material on my DVR is worse than most BR rips at even 2GB.

Cannot say the same for National Geographic and Discovery since I don't have access to reference material from them.

I would agree with Cor here... basing a TV's performance on SD content is wrong... especially when even STB HD content on TV is bad compared to most BR rips. Its always better to carry a media player/laptop/tablet with some BR rips and HD content to really measure the performance of a TV. At least that's how I do it and recommend it be done.

Probably just4kix is also right about doing a demo with the worst content i.e. SD content and if a TV does well with it then it will also play HD content well... but the truth is most of us after upgrading to HDTV have moved away from SD content. I don't watch DVDs or SD channels anymore... its either HD channels or BR rips for me and I'm sure that's true for everyone else with a HDTV... so why not test it with what you will eventually watch anyways.

I agree to this about bitrate.These satellite broadcasters conserve bandwidth by sending the content at a reduced bitrate.
But we cannot compare a bluray rip(1080p) with say star movies channel on tata sky.This is because what is obtained on tata sky is an interlaced 1080i(alternate lines of a frame are transmitted).The ability of the display to de-interlace the content(obviously some prediction of the lost data has to be employed) determines the quality of the picture.

 

[shanmune]

I did not get what you are saying.If an STB inputs 1080i/50hz to the display(after hdmi handshake,which determines the display resolution) as input even for an SD content channel, does it not mean that it is internally converting the SD content to 1080i resolution(called upscaling)?
It can be said that a dvd player that does not understand the native resolution of a connected display(no hdmi) will output the native frames of the dvd say at 480p irrespective of the display resolution.This has to be anyway upconverted by the display if it has to show this content.
Am I missing something?

I think it is a very good question. When the info display on the screen says "1080i/50hz" (signal from Tata sky STB), does it mean that all the channels are upscaled to 1080i ?

Let me put what my thoughts based on the assumptions that I have. I may be wrong, so correct me when required. The actual SD resolution is 576i (in PAL) or 480i (in NTSC). I guess what could be happening inside STB is that it is trying to upscale a SD content from 576i to 1080i for all the non-HD channels, For HD channels, it might be just using the same 1080i without doing any upscaling. Then the obvious question would be - why are the non-HD channels not have the same PQ as that of the HD channels ? The answer could be that the STB video upscalling processor are not competent enough to do efficient upscaling. Even the AV receivers (mid-range) which has the upscaling video processors are not efficient enough to produce best PQ when displaying SD content. Very high end AV receivers have very good video processing hardware to have an efficient upscaling. Probably there could be few BD/DVD players which might do better upscaling as just4kix pointed out.

 

[Audiodoc]

Even with the best upscaling equipment 480p content will not look as crisp as 1080p content (native bluray / ripped). When the information is not there and cooked up signal will just take out the jaggies to make the 480p watchable on larger screens.

It is just like taking a VGA camera photograph for printing after adjustments in photoshop. It wont match a 5 megapixel photograph in terms of sharpness whatever the talent of the Photoshop specalist.

 

[just4kix]

I did not get what you are saying.If an STB inputs 1080i/50hz to the display(after hdmi handshake,which determines the display resolution) as input even for an SD content channel, does it not mean that it is internally converting the SD content to 1080i resolution(called upscaling)?
It can be said that a dvd player that does not understand the native resolution of a connected display(no hdmi) will output the native frames of the dvd say at 480p irrespective of the display resolution.This has to be anyway upconverted by the display if it has to show this content.
Am I missing something?

A TV does not upscale. The TV is capable of working with signals of the format 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720i, 720p, 1080i and 1080p (4k TVs are capable of handling 2160i and 2160p as well). If the TV receives a 576i PAL signal, it will de-interlace it and display it as 576p. And that is the extent of the so called "upscaling". Technologies such as X-Reality, etc. will improve the picture quality further by removing the noise, smoothening the picture, motion, etc.

That is not upscaling - at least not the way what we understand and definitely not the way a BDP (or DVDP) will upscale. If TVs upscaled properly, we would not be hearing of experts talking about BDPs and their capability to upscale. Various upscaling devices upscale the signal with varying degree of quality - the Oppo BDP is the best amongst the lot. If TVs did indeed upscale, you would seen manufacturers shouting at the top of their voices claiming this fact?

 

[Dirac]

A TV does not upscale. The TV is capable of working with signals of the format 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720i, 720p, 1080i and 1080p (4k TVs are capable of handling 2160i and 2160p as well). If the TV receives a 576i PAL signal, it will de-interlace it and display it as 576p. And that is the extent of the so called "upscaling". Technologies such as X-Reality, etc. will improve the picture quality further by removing the noise, smoothening the picture, motion, etc.

That is not upscaling - at least not the way what we understand and definitely not the way a BDP (or DVDP) will upscale. If TVs upscaled properly, we would not be hearing of experts talking about BDPs and their capability to upscale. Various upscaling devices upscale the signal with varying degree of quality - the Oppo BDP is the best amongst the lot. If TVs did indeed upscale, you would seen manufacturers shouting at the top of their voices claiming this fact?

It is not that a TV cannot upscale, but better results come if the source player like the BDP which is actually reading the compressed content from the disc, and creates the frames(after using its own predictive algorithms).
Once the frames are created by the BDP, there is no point in the TV running its own algorithms on already created frames.
Suppose an MPEG file(compressed data) is fed to a TV through USB, it will create the frames from scratch and upscale to its native resolution.Always a good TV is also a good upscaler.

 

[viper08]

It is not that a TV cannot upscale, but better results come if the source player like the BDP which is actually reading the compressed content from the disc, and creates the frames(after using its own predictive algorithms).
Once the frames are created by the BDP, there is no point in the TV running its own algorithms on already created frames.
Suppose an MPEG file(compressed data) is fed to a TV through USB, it will create the frames from scratch and upscale to its native resolution.Always a good TV is also a good upscaler.

Both player and Tv do have in built scalers. (Up/Down). TVs job is to get the whatever signal and put it in to it native resolution. Now some TVs do better job, some don't.

Its always recommended to have the signal feeding to the TV to do the pre-processing (upscaling or whatever) before TV(native to TV) and simply display as it is.

 

[viper08]

@neubee
but you must keep in mind that showrooms use HDMI splitter and the already poor quality feed is distributed among multiple sets.

HDMI splitter will not have any issues with the signal quality. It will be same for all.
HDMI, being a digital signal gets processed in binary (0 or 1) There are no other values associated to to it. It will show signal if it gets (1) or it won't if if it fails to get (0). There can't be bad picture or distorted signal. These issues are related to analog cables(cable/composite) where there can various factors affecting signal.

So if you are in showroom with Tvs showing HD DTH, Last TV in the row will have same signal quality as first.

 

[just4kix]

Depends on how many Ferrari's you have seen running on Indian roads? I've only come across 1 till date. It goes to say that people who can afford a Ferrari and buy one will not be driving with the common man on Indian roads. Most will either settle in the US or in Europe with a private villa or live in an upmarket part of the city with the rest of the Indian elite... and we all know how well things are for them with regards to better roads, power cuts, water supply, etc.

Anyways I have to agree that the ST50 is an exceptional TV that does both SD and HD content extremely well. After reading your thread I convinced a friend to go in for that TV and he is a very happy camper having got it for 96K.

Unfortunately though most LCD/LED TVs don't handle SD content as well as the Panny plasmas.

I am not belittling the Sony HX series. I think they are very good to excellent TVs. I personally think that the OP may have to revisit the demos and compare again, maybe at a different place.

My point is, whatever TV you buy, it should perform equally well with regards to SD and HD within acceptable parameters.

Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2

 

[lake1988]

Today I got a demo of HX850 along with Samsung 7-8 series LED and one LG cinema 3d tv at Esteem mall ezone Bangalore.
Observation-I got demo only similar priced model.
1.Sony and Samsung brightness,color accuracy was same.
2.Sony's Black level was better than samsung one.
3.Lg was very dull even with 100 brightness and 100 contrast...Sony and Samsung are way ahead.
4.Sony's pic was bit sharp than Samsung one.
5.Then I got a 3D demo on HX850..I didn't feel any crosstalk though If I tilt my head I lose the whole 3D effect...that means you have to watch horizontally only..

 

[k11]

For LG, you need to switch off energy conserve (auto bright/contrast) feature.

Mine looked terrible out of the box. I was thinking of returning but when I switch of the feature the colors popped out with bright contrast.

 

[lake1988]

I am comparing with pic quality of sony/samsung only...with side by side comparison I found those result..tried each and every settings...

 

[prosenjit]

lake very nice share..it will be great if you share what contents did you watch......

 

[lake1988]

1.Tata sky hd-Discovery HD channel.
2.Demo 3D clip available in sony usb drive.
3.Bluray movie-Avengers.

 

[sriji1212]

disclaimer: I am not a video pro and I totally don't understand the PQ internals. So, whatever I say about PQ below is very subjective to mine and my family's eyes

My dad bought HX850 6 months back and I can vouch for its HD picture quality. All HD channels really rock with very bright PQ. Seeing a movie in "Movies Now" was really a treat!

SD channels definitely lacks good PQ when scaled (Airtel STB has the zoom function to scale to 16:9). It does look good on 4:3 mode but then 46" becomes more like 32" TV. The SUN TV soaps look really awkward in zoom mode

Before buying, we did compare extensively on SD channels as 75% of my parents viewing are soaps in SD channel. Only Panasonic/Samsung Plasma range (we saw 42xt50 and 51e470) gave acceptable PQ on SD content (of course they were not "bright" and there were reflections on plasma, as the showroom was brightly lit even after switching off some light near plasma).

I tried a lot to convince them to go for Plasma but my dad was very reluctant as he was brain washed by many of his friends on "power consumption" and heat generation of plasma's... And of course in the showroom, LEDs are always brighter to the eyes and it mattered most even though their 75% of viewing is SD channel.

I would suggest to go for plasma if you or your family watch more SD content. They are less priced compared to LED as well and does perform well in good light conditions...

 

[Bravia850]

disclaimer: I am not a video pro and I totally don't understand the PQ internals. So, whatever I say about PQ below is very subjective to mine and my family's eyes

My dad bought HX850 6 months back and I can vouch for its HD picture quality. All HD channels really rock with very bright PQ. Seeing a movie in "Movies Now" was really a treat!

SD channels definitely lacks good PQ when scaled (Airtel STB has the zoom function to scale to 16:9). It does look good on 4:3 mode but then 46" becomes more like 32" TV. The SUN TV soaps look really awkward in zoom mode

Before buying, we did compare extensively on SD channels as 75% of my parents viewing are soaps in SD channel. Only Panasonic/Samsung Plasma range (we saw 42xt50 and 51e470) gave acceptable PQ on SD content (of course they were not "bright" and there were reflections on plasma, as the showroom was brightly lit even after switching off some light near plasma).

I tried a lot to convince them to go for Plasma but my dad was very reluctant as he was brain washed by many of his friends on "power consumption" and heat generation of plasma's... And of course in the showroom, LEDs are always brighter to the eyes and it mattered most even though their 75% of viewing is SD channel.

I would suggest to go for plasma if you or your family watch more SD content. They are less priced compared to LED as well and does perform well in good light conditions...

I agree completely... at least the picture quality of HD channels are really spectacular.... We have been constantly watching movies one after another just for the awesome picture quality... But yes the SD quality is not good.

 

[just4kix]

OK. Put SD and HD in proper perspective. I hope that people are not saying "HD looks so fabulous and SD looks so bad". That kind of equality is not going to be the case.

- check HD quality of same source with other TVs/Brands
- check SD quality of same source with other TVs/Brands (not CRT)

Just a pointer.

For instance, this is how SD channel looks on my TV. Note that there is some camera shake and hence image is not sharp. But still a good indicator. I find the quality acceptable for the kind of DTH signal, the compression used and the inherent limitations of SD. Check with your own TV.

Cheers.

 

[Bravia850]

OK. Put SD and HD in proper perspective. I hope that people are not saying "HD looks so fabulous and SD looks so bad". That kind of equality is not going to be the case.

- check HD quality of same source with other TVs/Brands
- check SD quality of same source with other TVs/Brands (not CRT)

Just a pointer.

For instance, this is how SD channel looks on my TV. Note that there is some camera shake and hence image is not sharp. But still a good indicator. I find the quality acceptable for the kind of DTH signal, the compression used and the inherent limitations of SD. Check with your own TV.

Cheers.

Yes we have similar SD quality.

 

[just4kix]

Yes we have similar SD quality.

In that case, do not worry. It is not as if other sets will give a better quality.

Happy Diwali and have a relaxed mind.