Why is the idea of active HT not so popular?

[ssf]

Thank you! Now this is helpful!

No it's not. He is just agreeing with you.

@prateekatasniya

Interesting post. Could you point us to some setups that use all actives in home theatre with some commentary so that we can understand how an active HT is setup because this is really a foreign concept am sure for most of us.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Cost.

High end home theatre brands have full active setups. As active is the best way to extract the best from a speaker.

This is not true, you make it seem as if there is something left to be extracted from a speaker in a passive system. All an active does is apply processing, from EQ to limiting, all this can be applied to a passive speaker as well. In essence what they do with active speakers is to take the real native response of a given speaker (enclosure and drivers) and try to optimize it (usually for objective standards) with built in DSP. They then advertise this processed response as native though it isn't native. In room this processing is worthless as it won't compensate for the room and additional processing is required to compensate for this, assuming you are sticking to an objective standard.

 

[chander]

No it's not. He is just agreeing with you.

LOL!! I understand that, but at-least now I have a direction to guide my search keywords. Earlier I was scouring the depths of the internet with keywords that were not coming with anything helpful. I was continuously being directed to 5.1 systems from yamaha, samsung, lg, sony etc and their problems.

Now I am searching for big brands that make these, then forum searches with those model names and then issues and hence - a direction.

 

[ssf]

LOL!! I understand that, but at-least now I have a direction to guide my search keywords. Earlier I was scouring the depths of the internet with keywords that were not coming with anything helpful. I was continuously being directed to 5.1 systems from yamaha, samsung, lg, sony etc and their problems.

Now I am searching for big brands that make these, then forum searches with those model names and then issues and hence - a direction.

A thumbs up to your post too as I can't do both with emojis.

Do post your findings.

 

[DB1989]

Totally by the ear . I have no means to measure, and I do not even frankly understand the whole DSP thing, measurement charts are ancient latin to me. I also created a post about that - https://www.hifivision.com/threads/i-got-a-free-ht-upgrade-clickbait-alert.85117/

Long story short, I started fiddling with the AVR settings and after a few weeks of changing things continuously I settled on the setup where at present my center channel is +2db. If I get bored of it, I will try some other permutation combination.

For me at present it is all by the ear.

I figured as much that the good ol' ear'd be it. But who goes through the trouble of a measurement mic?

Quick and convenient hack is to Simply play back pink noise on YouTube and use a free app on your iPad/android device such as DB meter or decibel x to level match. As little effort as it gets.

 

[DB1989]

No it's not. He is just agreeing with you.

@prateekatasniya

Interesting post. Could you point us to some setups that use all actives in home theatre with some commentary so that we can understand how an active HT is setup because this is really a foreign concept am sure for most of us.

I would imagine anyone with preamp outs on their AVR can do it? To my mind, it seems pretty much the same except instead of the internal amplification of the AVR, you'd be using that on the actives. Or am i trivialising it?

Alternatively, i imagine that one could use an HT processor such as the marantz mm8077/emotiva xyz or the like since they have Preamp outs inbuilt.

Coincidentally, i'd discussed it once with Sean (zerofidelity) during one of his live YT chats after he'd just reviewed the Buchardt A500s and he suggested the same.

 

[chander]

I would imagine anyone with preamp outs on their AVR can do it? To my mind, it seems pretty much the same except instead of the internal amplification of the AVR, you'd be using that on the actives. Or am i trivialising it?

Alternatively, i imagine that one could use an HT processor such as the marantz mm8077/emotiva xyz or the like since they have Preamp outs inbuilt.

You are absolutely correct.

 

[jbkar]

Cost.

High end home theatre brands have full active setups. As active is the best way to extract the best from a speaker.

Useful information. Just curious to know few brands or models of Hifi active speakers for HT

 

[mail2sumanth]

I heard to Audium active speakers 7.2 channel in Bangalore. Felt very lively and musical. it uses full range compression driver along with woofer. It has Room adaption feature in its DSP. But as discussed in this thread cost is the main factor. These are one of the best if cost is not a problem. Just plug the source and you are ready to go.

AUDIUM Comp 7.2 Active

Floor Speaker, Fully Active with oval Woofer and Room Adaption

speakers.audium.com

 

[mail2sumanth]

Useful information. Just curious to know few brands or models of Hifi active speakers for HT

AUDIUM Comp 7.2 Active

Floor Speaker, Fully Active with oval Woofer and Room Adaption

speakers.audium.com

 

[Chulbulee]

For starters, not everyone subscribes to the notion that active speakers are better.

You nailed it.
Speakers do need signal and for that you need an amplifier. IMO coining this story of Active/Passive is useless. Yes, radiators are passive, dependent on speakers inside their enclosure.

High end home theatre brands have full active setups. As active is the best way to extract the best from a speaker.

Can you explain what difference do this setup make?

 

[sandeepmohan]

My only excuse for not heading down the road with active HT is brightness of active speakers. Its hard to correct. I will admit that it is an interesting approach and also allows you to conceal everything in the wall if you wish, which is perfect for someone with a dedicated room. Imagine a space with no speaker or wire clutter!

A challenge I can think of is only if most of us folks here rent a place. If its your own, then things are quite different and you can do as you please.

 

[ssf]

I would imagine anyone with preamp outs on their AVR can do it? To my mind, it seems pretty much the same except instead of the internal amplification of the AVR, you'd be using that on the actives. Or am i trivialising it?

Alternatively, i imagine that one could use an HT processor such as the marantz mm8077/emotiva xyz or the like since they have Preamp outs inbuilt.

Coincidentally, i'd discussed it once with Sean (zerofidelity) during one of his live YT chats after he'd just reviewed the Buchardt A500s and he suggested the same.

Actually I don't think I worded that right. Happens sometimes when I post at night.

It is not the implementation of actives but the advantages of actives in a HT setup that I wanted to know. To my mind, whatever can be achieved with actives can be achieved with passives too at a greater convenience.i am open to correction.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Hi,

I have been wondering why the idea of active HTs is not so popular?

Beats me too, TBH. My HT was originally a 5.1 fully powered/active setup (still have the same setup along with passives for overheads). No wondering about what amp will work for the speakers. Power it on and play!

There's this story of an "audiophile" who once auditioned a pair of active speakers (I forget which) for music. He is mesmerized by what he hears and comments that he's never heard anything better.

After a couple of hours, as he is about to leave, he asks: Would it be possible to hook this up to another amp? Sigh. Old habits die hard and all that.

As for cost, the comparison ought to be apples to apples. One should compare the sum total of the cost of passives and the cost of similarly spec'd amplification to the cost of the powered speakers.

 

[prateekatasniya]

This is not true, you make it seem as if there is something left to be extracted from a speaker in a passive system. All an active does is apply processing, from EQ to limiting, all this can be applied to a passive speaker as well. In essence what they do with active speakers is to take the real native response of a given speaker (enclosure and drivers) and try to optimize it (usually for objective standards) with built in DSP. They then advertise this processed response as native though it isn't native. In room this processing is worthless as it won't compensate for the room and additional processing is required to compensate for this, assuming you are sticking to an objective standard.

Read list of benefits of active speakers in book "loudspeakers for music recording and reproduction"
It has a list of more than 20 reasons stating that active is better than passive ( everything else being equal)

By active I am assuming that the crossover is also active.
I'm not sticking to objective standards.

 

[sandeepmohan]

To make the process easier, start by buying a pair of excellent Yamaha HS-8's. If you like their sound, the rest of the chain can be paired with similar if not the exact same speaker. This speaker used to retail for <50k INR a pair about 5 years ago. You'll need an AVR with pre amp outputs to go with these or any active speaker.

 

[prateekatasniya]

You nailed it.
Speakers do need signal and for that you need an amplifier. IMO coining this story of Active/Passive is useless. Yes, radiators are passive, dependent on speakers inside their enclosure.

Can you explain what difference do this setup make?

@ssf
Having a active crossover makes a whole lot of difference in the speaker's performance. Coz any day a active crossover is better than a passive crossover.
each speaker driver needs a separate amplifier this increasing the cost of the speaker.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Useful information. Just curious to know few brands or models of Hifi active speakers for HT

Brands like ascendo, Meyer sound, alcons ( alcons use external amplifiers with passive speakers without passive crossover)
Movie need very high SPL capability from a speaker which mandates use of pro drivers.

 

[prateekatasniya]

No it's not. He is just agreeing with you.

@prateekatasniya

Interesting post. Could you point us to some setups that use all actives in home theatre with some commentary so that we can understand how an active HT is setup because this is really a foreign concept am sure for most of us.

Ascendo, Meyer sound, alcons, pro audio technology. These are a few ultra High end brands for home theatre setups.

Ascendo and Meyer sound have 2 way speakers with built in bi amplification and obviously an active crossover.

Pro audio technology, alcons use external power amplifiers ( their own amplifiers) with active crossover applied in the external amplifiers.
So if it's a two way speaker then 2 set of cables would go to the speaker from the amplifier. ( This sounds like a passive setup but reality is its more of a active setup because of active crossovers. These Speakers are built with multiple inputs for each of the speaker driver, without a crossover inside them .

 

[ssf]

Ascendo, Meyer sound, alcons, pro audio technology. These are a few ultra High end brands for home theatre setups.

Ascendo and Meyer sound have 2 way speakers with built in bi amplification and obviously an active crossover.

Pro audio technology, alcons use external power amplifiers ( their own amplifiers) with active crossover applied in the external amplifiers.
So if it's a two way speaker then 2 set of cables would go to the speaker from the amplifier. ( This sounds like a passive setup but reality is its more of a active setup because of active crossovers. These Speakers are built with multiple inputs for each of the speaker driver, without a crossover inside them .

Sounds like it is a very customized setup to be implemented by professionals. I don't think a layman can properly setup an active crossover.

Leads me to believe that such setups are far from mainstream.