Yet Another HTPC-advice Thread!

[sam9s]

Sam and RegeHa, though I understand where you are both coming from, you seem to skipping the upscaling being done by AVRs. Though I do agree that upscaling can be done anywhere, is it not that much easier to send a signal as is to the AVR and let the AVR handle the upscaling? Of course this does depend on the capability of the AVR, but today nearly all 50K AVRs do 4K upscaling.

I have a modest DENON x1000 AVR and I dont think it does 1080p upscaling, passthrough yes but no upscaling AFAIK .... EPSON 2030 also is said to do 1080p upscaling, wonder if that might be of some concern ....

 

[ranjeetrain]

Tired of upgrades, I exited the HTPC business 8 years ago. Since then have only been spinning disk on DVD and later BD players.

A couple of years ago I added a media player, and extremely happy with it. It has all the capabilities we are discussing here except 4k up-scaling. But that's ok, since I don't have a natively 4K capable display as of now.

It's Android based, does 3D, YouTube, has a lot of apps including free online movie streaming and so on. It even has builtin bitTorrent client to download stuff on its internal hard drive. Best part is, I can still connect a keyboard and mouse to it (has 4 USB ports) to give me an actual HTPC feel. Though my wife prefers operating it with the remote. All this at the cost of a good HTPC cabinet.

A media player is not as future-proof as an HTPC but the simplicity and cost-effectiveness is remarkable. Even my not so tech-savvy wife/visiting guests are perfectly at ease using it with the remote.

For the price I paid I don't think any HTPC can even come close to it on the VFM preposition. For those on a tight budget my recommendation is to go with a media player.

 

[mgdelhi]

An update about RPi 3 from arstechnica.com.

Pi 3 also has a graphics upgrade, using Broadcoms 400MHz VideoCore IV, rather than last years 250MHz version. The new hardware will support 1080p video at 60fps using the H.264 format, up from 30fps. The new Pi also gains H.265 support for the first time but is limited to 1080p at 30fps.

A couple of years ago I added a media player, and extremely happy with it.

What media player is it ?

 

[sam9s]

H.265 @ 1080p is of no use H.264 does this job pretty decently ...

 

[venkatcr]

You guys have me hooked. Am looking at building a media player with RPI 3 and OpenElec. Will be fun. Have to see later how to link it to my HTPC. Looking at installing Plex Server with a Plex client on the RPI3.

Also considering the OpenElec Wetek box. At 88 Euros seems to be a ready made media center with RC and all!!

Thanks guys.

 

[regeHA]

I'm waiting for Pi 3 to arrive, once its here I plan to hook it up to the TV via HDMI and stream from the NAS. Need to see how effective the onboard WiFi is especially for 1080P content, but should not really be an issue as HD requires 5-6 mbps and that's well within the 802.11n the Pi 3 comes with.

Should make for a truly portable HTPC.

If I was building a HTPC today and did not need upscaling, this is what I'd do. Get a Pi 3 or something like GeekBox and be done with it. A Roku stick or Roku TV would nicely complement for Netflix, Hulu, and also online streaming of 100s of channels. Total outlay will be anywhere from INR 6K to INR 9.5K depending on what model of Roku you want. The Roku stick comes at $50. Thrown in Chromecast Video and Chromecast Audio and you are all set for under $200 with 4 devices.

In the US I was using Mohu and Sling TV, but most of the content is geo restricted so not much use outside of the US.

The SOC has pretty much killed the need for a PC especially as a HTPC or media server, and they are only getting started. Imagine 5 years down the line how things will be... probably everything in your smartphone or wearable tech.

 

[TheSeeker]

thanks everyone for the truckload of info!

There is no additional investment. If you get a GPU that can send HD audio in raw format, then you already have a 7.1 (TrueHD and MasterHD). As far as HTPC goes this is only a nomenclature. It all depends upon the GPU you get. It does not make sense to get a GPU that cannot send digital audio with all the necessary codecs.

The minute you talk about media such a Blu-ray and software such as XBMX and Plex, you are talking about hogging the memory. The more memory you have, the better it is. And DDR3 is expensive. You will face lots of issues - stuttering, audio jitter, slow boot, etc. All that can be handled by having a 64 bit processor that can handle 8GB and more. You will at least set aside one possible trouble maker away.

On my laptop from which I am sending this message he is the performance status:

Total 8106
Cached 3121
Available 4396
Free 1366

And I am not even playing a video.

I hope you get the picture.

Cheers

understood. clear now.

Yes another sam9s HTPC advice post ..... ....

I am into HTPC and server builds for like ages, and have tried all sorts of applications, OS, both windows linux mac... x86, ARM .... you name it, and in all practicality, in all scenarios, for a dedicated HTPC, nothing comes close to Kodi AKA XBMC. This is the software front I am talking about. For the hardware, running Kodi is NOT resource hog, even for BD ISOs and 3D as well ....except if you go in to 4K and/or go for any sort of video transcoding/resampling, which is not needed unless you want to stream your video media on the move over 3G or something.

Lets discuess the hardware for a budget of 25K, below is what I would suggest

GA-H81M-S2PH Motherboard 3500
Intel 3 GHz LGA 1150 G-3220 Dual Core 4300
Zotac GT630 4000
wd green 1TB 4000
Corsair*DDR3*4*GB(1*x*4GB) 1650
PSU Corsair VS450 2500
SSD 32 GB for OS sandisk 2500
===================TOTAL--> 22450

This will play every format thrown, including BD ISO and 3D as well (not 3D BD ISO support as of now with kodi.. sorry, but there are ways to use external player to do the job with kodi running as front end). Also with this GPU you will have full DTSMA and TrueHD bit streaming.

Coming to media server, what kinda of media server are you planning to run, need to be more specific, what is your objective. We can have one windows machine that will run your Kodi and can act as a 24x7 running media server as well. But, in that case we would have windows running as the underlying OS. The advantage is you can have your torrent running at the background and other applications as well. BUT trust me this approch sooner or later might slow down the system.

Recommended approach, at least for dedicated HTPC is to have it running as an OS, very much like OpenELEC (kodi based on linux). Will be much faster in the long run and also gives a more media player like feel than a PC. (I am using openELEC for ages now.

Disadvantages of openELEC is that you can not have any media server OS/app running at the background. Torrents you can still run as we have a transmission plugin for Kodi that should serve your purpose, but point is you would be limited to run third party apps from within Kodi.

What else do you need ................ Youtube ?? can be run from within Kodi, Music as well can be run from within kodi. Gaming you can not do ... unless you opt for Windows based Kodi, in that case you just quit Kodi and come back to desktop and start what ever game you like. (but that is not how I perceive an HTPC)

What else are your requirements ....... list on and we shall see how to build a solution

was awaiting your inputs

can not both Win and OpenElec be installed for dual-boot?

@regeHA - thanks a lot for the links!
i have no aversion to RPi. infact, would most probably still buy it to 'play' with it even if i have an HTPC. but am not inclined to use it as the sole/dedicated media-player due to reasons i deem as 'hassles' personally for me - setting it up, looking up for guides for everything everytime, 'restricting' feel of the whole thing, etc. i may be wrong on this, but with my use of pogo pro and goflex home, i find so. i was using these two about an year back, then later due to work seldom stayed at home, forgot much about the devices, and now am planning to revive them but at wit's end from where to start. wouldn't want that kind of thing happening with RPi etc. for hobbysakes its fine. whereas an HTPC would be familiar and give more flexibility. thats what i think.

anyway, are orange pi & banana pi/pro better than RPi?

Tired of upgrades, I exited the HTPC business 8 years ago. Since then have only been spinning disk on DVD and later BD players.

A couple of years ago I added a media player, and extremely happy with it. It has all the capabilities we are discussing here except 4k up-scaling. But that's ok, since I don't have a natively 4K capable display as of now.

It's Android based, does 3D, YouTube, has a lot of apps including free online movie streaming and so on. It even has builtin bitTorrent client to download stuff on its internal hard drive. Best part is, I can still connect a keyboard and mouse to it (has 4 USB ports) to give me an actual HTPC feel. Though my wife prefers operating it with the remote. All this at the cost of a good HTPC cabinet.

A media player is not as future-proof as an HTPC but the simplicity and cost-effectiveness is remarkable. Even my not so tech-savvy wife/visiting guests are perfectly at ease using it with the remote.

For the price I paid I don't think any HTPC can even come close to it on the VFM preposition. For those on a tight budget my recommendation is to go with a media player.

Ranjeet sir, by 'media player' do you mean something like xtreamer? i have a HiMedia HD900B which am currently using, but now want the flexibility of a PC.

 

[TheSeeker]

I'm waiting for Pi 3 to arrive, once its here I plan to hook it up to the TV via HDMI and stream from the NAS. Need to see how effective the onboard WiFi is especially for 1080P content, but should not really be an issue as HD requires 5-6 mbps and that's well within the 802.11n the Pi 3 comes with.

Should make for a truly portable HTPC.

If I was building a HTPC today and did not need upscaling, this is what I'd do. Get a Pi 3 or something like GeekBox and be done with it. A Roku stick or Roku TV would nicely complement for Netflix, Hulu, and also online streaming of 100s of channels. Total outlay will be anywhere from INR 6K to INR 9.5K depending on what model of Roku you want. The Roku stick comes at $50. Thrown in Chromecast Video and Chromecast Audio and you are all set for under $200 with 4 devices.

In the US I was using Mohu and Sling TV, but most of the content is geo restricted so not much use outside of the US.

The SOC has pretty much killed the need for a PC especially as a HTPC or media server, and they are only getting started. Imagine 5 years down the line how things will be... probably everything in your smartphone or wearable tech.

i have an MK808B stick with me. barely using it, but was bought and being used to watch youtube (custom ROM not installed yet). remix mini pc is a better device (just got to know about it)?

 

[regeHA]

H.265 @ 1080p is of no use H.264 does this job pretty decently ...

Actually I tested with ripping and encoding a couple of Blu-ray movies. With StaxRip.

H265/HEVC makes for nearly 40% less file size. In other words you can get the same PQ but with smaller file size, or you can go with same file size as H264 and get better PQ (higher video bitrate).

A better option is to actually squeeze HD Audio in a 4.37 GB rip with HEVC. I did that for a couple of movies and I could get more than DTS audio but keep the file size smaller. Terminator Genisys with Dolby TrueHD 7.1 with HEVC in a 4.37 GB rip. The PQ will be the same, but you can go with HD Audio. At least that was the goal, but the result was lower video bitrate as most of the 4.37 GB content was taken by the HD Audio.

The best approach is to keep the VQ and SQ the same, but save on space. So you can get real good rips of around 2 to 2.5 GB. Though considering how cheap HDD prices are it should not be an issue for the home user.

The likes of Netflix will really benefit from HEVC. They can bundle the same quality with nearly 50% reduction in file size, will be a boon for the streaming aficionados.

 

[regeHA]

@regeHA - thanks a lot for the links!
i have no aversion to RPi. infact, would most probably still buy it to 'play' with it even if i have an HTPC. but am not inclined to use it as the sole/dedicated media-player due to reasons i deem as 'hassles' personally for me - setting it up, looking up for guides for everything everytime, 'restricting' feel of the whole thing, etc. i may be wrong on this, but with my use of pogo pro and goflex home, i find so. i was using these two about an year back, then later due to work seldom stayed at home, forgot much about the devices, and now am planning to revive them but at wit's end from where to start. wouldn't want that kind of thing happening with RPi etc. for hobbysakes its fine. whereas an HTPC would be familiar and give more flexibility. thats what i think.

You are right. Though once you get the hang of it, the Pi is extremely easy. But there will always be some level of geekiness associated with it, you'll need to write the OS on an SD card via a PC. You'll need to access the CLI a fair bit especially to update the s/w. Even installing new s/w is done via the CLI. Further you'll need to open and edit config files. But honestly its not a real problem. I'm a Linux noob and I've got my Pi like 3 months or less.

If I've been able to configure a media server, VPN server, torrent box, personal cloud server, etc. then I'm sure anyone can.

anyway, are orange pi & banana pi/pro better than RPi?

Honestly I've not used them. The one thing the Pi has going for it is an open source Linux community behind it. You have the s/w and OS for pretty much anything you can think of. Right now I'm playing with a RAID Pi and also a Pi Router/Repeater. Its going to be hard to find such tutorials and guides for other h/w... unless I'm wrong and all/any h/w can be used, but I think not.

Also, I think the Pi 3 has in terms of h/w really scaled things up so you don't really need more powerful h/w and with the added benefits of the open source community behind it, the Pi wins.

 

[regeHA]

You guys have me hooked. Am looking at building a media player with RPI 3 and OpenElec. Will be fun. Have to see later how to link it to my HTPC. Looking at installing Plex Server with a Plex client on the RPI3.

Also considering the OpenElec Wetek box. At 88 Euros seems to be a ready made media center with RC and all!!

Thanks guys.

Plex transcodes everything.

OpenELEC or Kodi all the way.

 

[sam9s]

Tired of upgrades, I exited the HTPC business 8 years ago. Since then have only been spinning disk on DVD and later BD players.

A couple of years ago I added a media player, and extremely happy with it. It has all the capabilities we are discussing here except 4k up-scaling. But that's ok, since I don't have a natively 4K capable display as of now.

It's Android based, does 3D, YouTube, has a lot of apps including free online movie streaming and so on. It even has builtin bitTorrent client to download stuff on its internal hard drive. Best part is, I can still connect a keyboard and mouse to it (has 4 USB ports) to give me an actual HTPC feel. Though my wife prefers operating it with the remote. All this at the cost of a good HTPC cabinet.

A media player is not as future-proof as an HTPC but the simplicity and cost-effectiveness is remarkable. Even my not so tech-savvy wife/visiting guests are perfectly at ease using it with the remote.

For the price I paid I don't think any HTPC can even come close to it on the VFM preposition. For those on a tight budget my recommendation is to go with a media player.

... and I exited media player business 5 years ago, last one I tried was POHD AC Ryan. Once I tried XBMC on HTPC, June 2011 there was simply no looking back.

Kodi (aka xbmc) on an HTPC is not just for the future proofing, or better
compatibility or no nonsence playback ... BUT its also about the interface, look n feel, Elite YAMJ feel, the library maintainence, and all other truck loads of "actual" serious features that one might require while dealing with an HTPC and their big movie/TV libraries.

Media players even of todays gen are kids in front of Kodi when it comes to how you manage your movie library and how good/elite/posh your library looks on your HTPC. Other wise a plain windows machine can play files stored on your NAS/external storage via VLC or MPC.

I will share a video of my Kodi with you (and all others as well) if you can find any media player that has as good/elite look and feel as you see with kodi, I will take my words back. Plus its not only beauty and no brains., Kodi also has the brains as well, with "worthy" features..... like as a small example, ability to download subtitles on the fly and that too from number of sources. (This is just one small example). Check out the video. Request is to take some time and see it full and notice the interface carefully for various segments I browse. And this is just 60% of customization I have done.
People have completely revolutionized the looks and feel with Kodi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7aSs0tJTI

Coming to easy of use ....aaaa dont even start me on this. Ok so a layman can also operate a media player, its that easy, how about old people who might not even know where to switch it on, or how to navigate to the folders/locations that have your movie/TV collection. Or any other small/big change they might want while movie is playing.

With kodi you can configure your HTPC for complete remote access, including remote switching it on and off. All you will ask others to do is to switch on the TV, and maximum change the input to HDMI where HTPC is connected. (I wish kodi starts to support HDMI CEC, that would eliminate even this step, TV will auto switch to desired input) You then take over the control of kodi from your tab or web browser from anywhere across the world. YOu will switch on the HTPC, control the navigation of your library, ask them what movie they wanna see, and play that movie right from your current location. Change brightness/contrast etc ...almost everything basic kodi aspect remotely. You can also direct your HTPC to switch off when the movie is completed ....... hows that for ease of access.

HTPC with kodi wins hands down in comparison to any media player and is miles ahead in terms of almost every aspect of Movie watching experience one can have ....Period!

Regards
Sammy

 

[sam9s]

Actually I tested with ripping and encoding a couple of Blu-ray movies. With StaxRip.

H265/HEVC makes for nearly 40% less file size. In other words you can get the same PQ but with smaller file size, or you can go with same file size as H264 and get better PQ (higher video bitrate).

A better option is to actually squeeze HD Audio in a 4.37 GB rip with HEVC. I did that for a couple of movies and I could get more than DTS audio but keep the file size smaller. Terminator Genisys with Dolby TrueHD 7.1 with HEVC in a 4.37 GB rip. The PQ will be the same, but you can go with HD Audio. At least that was the goal, but the result was lower video bitrate as most of the 4.37 GB content was taken by the HD Audio.

The best approach is to keep the VQ and SQ the same, but save on space. So you can get real good rips of around 2 to 2.5 GB. Though considering how cheap HDD prices are it should not be an issue for the home user.

The likes of Netflix will really benefit from HEVC. They can bundle the same quality with nearly 50% reduction in file size, will be a boon for the streaming aficionados.

I was not talking in terms of personal ripping/encoding, I am talking about the rippers all across the internet, which is what most of us download. Most of the rippers will stick to H.264 for 1080p encoding simply because of compatibility sake. I personally have not used H.265 yet to test encode a BD ISO but have done tones of experiments with H.264, ages back when it was first introduced .... Shared a BD Rip guide as well with the fellow members here

 

[regeHA]

@sam9s - Now a HTPC makes sense. Unless one can get the same thing with a Pi + OpenELEC.

I use a HTPC, but its plain jane vanilla with explorer and PotPlayer. Perhaps I should use Kodi as front end and madVR as player. You've certainly tempted me.

PS: Anyway to export options and import them in Kodi? If that's possible perhaps you can share your config file for us simple folks to import?

 

[TheSeeker]

You are right. Though once you get the hang of it, the Pi is extremely easy. But there will always be some level of geekiness associated with it, you'll need to write the OS on an SD card via a PC. You'll need to access the CLI a fair bit especially to update the s/w. Even installing new s/w is done via the CLI. Further you'll need to open and edit config files. But honestly its not a real problem. I'm a Linux noob and I've got my Pi like 3 months or less.

If I've been able to configure a media server, VPN server, torrent box, personal cloud server, etc. then I'm sure anyone can.

if guides are available for most functions, then its very doable, i agree. infact i used a couple of guides meant for RPi to configure a few things on my GFH when i got stuck somewhere, to try and tweak things. it worked. i just dread what if it happens that its put out of use for some considerable time (it may happen a few months from now) and later on when i decide to put it to use again, am confused from where do i begin (also having missed any updates) in all the mess of info available online.

 

[TheSeeker]

... and I exited media player business 5 years ago, last one I tried was POHD AC Ryan. Once I tried XBMC on HTPC, June 2011 there was simply no looking back.

Kodi (aka xbmc) on an HTPC is not just for the future proofing, or better
compatibility or no nonsence playback ... BUT its also about the interface, look n feel, Elite YAMJ feel, the library maintainence, and all other truck loads of "actual" serious features that one might require while dealing with an HTPC and their big movie/TV libraries.

Media players even of todays gen are kids in front of Kodi when it comes to how you manage your movie library and how good/elite/posh your library looks on your HTPC. Other wise a plain windows machine can play files stored on your NAS/external storage via VLC or MPC.

I will share a video of my Kodi with you (and all others as well) if you can find any media player that has as good/elite look and feel as you see with kodi, I will take my words back. Plus its not only beauty and no brains., Kodi also has the brains as well, with "worthy" features..... like as a small example, ability to download subtitles on the fly and that too from number of sources. (This is just one small example). Check out the video. Request is to take some time and see it full and notice the interface carefully for various segments I browse. And this is just 60% of customization I have done.
People have completely revolutionized the looks and feel with Kodi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7aSs0tJTI

Coming to easy of use ....aaaa dont even start me on this. Ok so a layman can also operate a media player, its that easy, how about old people, who might not even know where to switch it on, or how to navigate to the folders/locations that have your movie/TV collection. Or any other small/big change they might want while movie is playing.

With kodi you can configure your HTPC for complete remote access, including remote switching it on and off. All you will ask laypeople to do is to switch on the TV, and maximum change the input to HDMI where HTPC is connected. (I wish kodi starts to support HDMI CEC, that would eliminate even this step, TV will auto switch to desired input) You then take over the control of kodi from your tab or web browser from anywhere across the world. YOu will switch on the HTPC, control the navigation of your library, ask them what movie they wanna see, and play that movie right from your current location. Change brightness/contrast etc ...almost everything basic kodi aspect remotely. You can also direct your HTPC to switch off when the movie is completed ....... hows that for ease of access.

HTPC with kodi wins hands down in comparison to any media player and is miles ahead in terms of almost every aspect of Movie watching experience one can have ....Period!

Regards
Sammy

am sold on the idea (even though not watched the vid yet)!
i had once tried to get that look 'n feel you described, with YAMJ on my HD900B. it was a fail & a headache.

 

[sam9s]

can not both Win and OpenElec be installed for dual-boot?.

Yes you can, You will need two hard drives. You can not dual boot with one HDD having separate partitions,(with OpenELEC) which is what usually we do in case of any windows dual boot. Frankly speaking does not make sense. What exactly you want to achieve with a dual boot. List on. We will see if we can have a solution with just OpenELEC. Or worst case is you run windows based Kodi ...

 

[TheSeeker]

Yes you can, You will need two hard drives. You can not dual boot with one HDD having separate partitions,(with OpenELEC) which is what usually we do in case of any windows dual boot. Frankly speaking does not make sense. What exactly you want to achieve with a dual boot. List on. We will see if we can have a solution with just OpenELEC. Or worst case is you run windows based Kodi ...

nothing as such lol, for i know nothing about OE to list what i want from it. i thought it could be a good idea to have both OS so that i can use OE too and see how is it (in comparison to Win + Kodi) and what all could be achieved from it.

BTW got the SSD i wrote about. still left with 2 yrs of warranty. hyeah:
(so can one OS go onto one SSD/HDD, and the other on the remaining drive?)

 

[sam9s]

if guides are available for most functions, then its very doable, i agree. infact i used a couple of guides meant for RPi to configure a few things on my GFH when i got stuck somewhere, to try and tweak things. it worked. i just dread what if it happens that its put out of use for some considerable time (it may happen a few months from now) and later on when i decide to put it to use again, am confused from where do i begin (also having missed any updates) in all the mess of info available online.

My opinion of not recommending an Rpi for Kodi is not what you and Regha are discussing. My points were a bit different,(shared in previous post) and yes that might change with Rpi 3, coz it does have a pretty decent hardware. Will update when I have my Rpi 3. However @Seeker, when it comes to installing OpenELEC on Rpi, its actually pretty easy, and it does not require any CLI modification as such, and no guides needed as well. Unless ofcourse if one does not know how to create an openELEC image via SD Card. Plus getting wifi dongle work with Rpi 1,2 might require some headache (which is where Rpi 3 wins). If you are on LAN with Rpi 2 then getting openELEC running is straightforward.

I however will still recommend HTPC with a decent GPU for compatibility sake, future proofing and utmost smooth and seamless performance ....
I have a meek C2D 6300@3Ghz with 2GB RAM and GT440 and there is NOTHING I cannot play (including 3D BD ISO (not in kodi ofcourse)) except H.265 encoded videos

 

[sam9s]

nothing as such lol, for i know nothing about OE to list what i want from it. i thought it could be a good idea to have both OS so that i can use OE too and see how is it (in comparison to Win + Kodi) and what all could be achieved from it.

BTW got the SSD i wrote about. still left with 2 yrs of warranty. hyeah:
(so can one OS go onto one SSD/HDD, and the other on the remaining drive?)

yes you can do that, you have to choose from which HDD to boot from during POST, F8 works for few BIOS, yours can be different.