Q Acoustics M20

[DB1989]

The behemoth arrived last night. I knew it will be big, but was still unprepared for just how big
I am kinda limited on the number of locations it can be placed in my room, but I think I found the better of those available spots.

Something that is bugging me though- looking at all reviews and the size of the thing, I had assumed it will output a ton of bass and that I will likely have to keep the subwoofer level at 30-50% max, considering my small room.

But in reality, I found that unless I crank it up to at least 70% I can barely hear/feel a difference over the QA M20 standalone (pun not intended).
It is very pleasing, mind you, and it could just be my inexperience speaking, but I still feel like there should be 'more' (even though I don't really need it).

In addition to playing it at mid volumes, cross-check the issues below:

Using these cables - BlueRigger Audio RCA Cable with Gold Plated connectors (1 RCA Subwoofer Cable 15 FT / 4.5 Meters) https://amzn.eu/d/5usjlqs

 Crossover set to 100.

I'm unsure about the crossover of the QB12 but if you have set the crossover to 100Hz, thats way way too high. The in room response of the M20HD would be anywhere between 45 - 55hz i presume but without frequency measurements, that's a shot in the dark because extension varies in each room.

Since you are a first timer, it would be really difficult for you to do it by ear since you do not have a point of reference.

This reminds me of an FM who got himself a monster of a sub in the JL E110 but there was hardly any bass because he had the crossover set at 60hz instead of 40hz i.e. the same problem as you, except you have it dialled much worse

Phase at 0, found that to be the better sounding option.

Usually, the correct phase is whichever is the loudest. If the bass sounds louder in a particular setting (0/180) but sounds bloated, you have the crossover dialled wrong.

Cable connected from the M20 sub-out to the QB12's left input.

Left input? I dont know which that is but if you want the crossover to work, DO NOT connect it to the LFE input of the sub.

 

[quixote_1989]

I'm unsure about the crossover of the QB12 but if you have set the crossover to 100Hz, thats way way too high. The in room response of the M20HD would be anywhere between 45 - 55hz i presume but without frequency measurements, that's a shot in the dark because extension varies in each room.

Oops, will reduce it and verify. The QA manual had 100 Hz mentioned for bookshelves, hence used it as a starting point.

This reminds me of an FM who got himself a monster of a sub in the JL E110 but there was hardly any bass because he had the crossover set at 60hz instead of 40hz i.e. the same problem as you, except you have it dialled much worse

Yikes

Usually, the correct phase is whichever is the loudest. If the bass sounds louder in a particular setting (0/180) but sounds bloated, you have the crossover dialled wrong.

0 was the louder between the two

Left input? I dont know which that is but if you want the crossover to work, DO NOT connect it to the LFE input of the sub.

So the sub has a Left/Mono and a Right input. I used the Left/Mono.

 

[DB1989]

Oops, will reduce it and verify. The QA manual had 100 Hz mentioned for bookshelves, hence used it as a starting point.

I've checked the QB12 manual at https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/downloads/qacoustics/QB12-manual.pdf. The suggested crossover setting is inane! A more palatable explanation is in the finer print in the next Para which reads as under:

"CROSSOVER: The crossover control determines the frequency above which your subwoofer
output begins to diminish. This should be set so that it corresponds with the frequency your main
speakers begin to produce a strong output by themselves. The adjustment allows for a smooth
handing over between subwoofer and main speaker output. If this setting is too low there will be
a ‘hole’ in the sound where certain frequencies are weak, conversely if it is too high there will be
an exaggeration of certain frequencies producing an overpowering bass. You can get an idea of
the correct setting from your main speakers’ specification sheet. Look for the lowest frequency
that the speaker produces (the “-3dB point”) under the “Frequency Response” heading. Room
positioning has a dramatic effect on low frequency reproduction of both the subwoofer and your
main speakers so don’t be worried if you find you require a setting which does not correlate with
the specified low frequency point of your main speakers."

The M20HD is rated at 55hz (-6db) free range. In room response (due to boundary reinforcement) will likely be better at 45-55hz if you are already experiencing strong bass.

0 was the louder between the two

Then that ought to be the correct phase. However, do try it again after reducing your crossover to a more appropriate frequency such as 60hz.

However, do note that the frequency response of the M20 HD will also change depending on the EQ.

Flip the EQ switch all the way up i.e. the near-wall setting and try with the crossover set at 60hz. It is likely that you will have to reduce it further but it is a good starting point.

Follow the steps in the following video for getting the crossover right. The process is true for most subs including the QB12:

So the sub has a Left/Mono and a Right input. I used the Left/Mono.

Checked the manual. Its correct.

 

[quixote_1989]

Then that ought to be the correct phase. However, do try it again after reducing your crossover to a more appropriate frequency such as 60hz.

However, do note that the frequency response of the M20 HD will also change depending on the EQ.

Flip the EQ switch all the way up i.e. the near-wall setting and try with the crossover set at 60hz. It is likely that you will have to reduce it further but it is a good starting point.

Follow the steps in the following video for getting the crossover right. The process is true for most subs including the QB12:

Will do, thanks! Really appreciate the suggestions.

 

[quixote_1989]

Looks like one big issue I (potentially) had was keeping the room door open

Closed the doors, switched the M20 EQ to the corner/least-bass setting and dropped crossover to around 70 Hz.
All in all, loving my music now. Will keep experimenting more.

 

[ssf]

And yes, I always felt the bass is coming from the speakers, rather than the sub.

This is what most people strive for in this forum. If you hear bass coming from the sub, then something is not right.

I hear this massive explosions coming from my puny surround speakers when it is actually coming from the sub but feels like it is coming from the speakers.

 

[DB1989]

Looks like one big issue I (potentially) had was keeping the room door open

Ahhh! that would prevent the room from getting pressurized properly.

Closed the doors, switched the M20 EQ to the corner/least-bass setting and dropped crossover to around 70 Hz.

All in all, loving my music now. Will keep experimenting more.

Crossover and volume are inversely related. While lowering the crossover frequency from 100hz to 70hz, don't forget to increase the volume on the sub! Conversely, while increasing the crossover frequency, decrease the volume of the sub.

 

[quixote_1989]

Crossover and volume are inversely related. While lowering the crossover frequency from 100hz to 70hz, don't forget to increase the volume on the sub! Conversely, while increasing the crossover frequency, decrease the volume of the sub.

Noted, makes sense!

 

[quixote_1989]

This is what most people strive for in this forum. If you hear bass coming from the sub, then something is not right.

Been reading the same thing, and the QB12 really delivers on that front. Never draws attention to itself... aside from looking like a mini fridge I mean.

 

[DB1989]

All in all, loving my music now. Will keep experimenting more.

Dialling in a sub takes a good amount of patience. The goal is to get acceptable results and start listening. Over the next week or so, you'll begin noticing/understanding the nuances/discrepancies of the system. Make minor adjustments to the volume and crossover and try and keep a track of the changes in case you need to revert to your prior settings.

Also, do try the sub crawl method to find the ideal spot for your sub amongst the available locations in your room.

 

[quixote_1989]

Dialling in a sub takes a good amount of patience. The goal is to get acceptable results and start listening. Over the next week or so, you'll begin noticing/understanding the nuances/discrepancies of the system. Make minor adjustments to the volume and crossover and try and keep a track of the changes in case you need to revert to your prior settings.

It has barely been 2 days and I am already scared of damaging the dials with how much I have fiddled about with them .
Will keep at it.
So far I have consistently needed to keep it around 60-70% to get perceivable bass, which is in line with what @amrutmhatre90 had shared.

It's really bringing in the goods now with some Daft Punk. Overall, rather glad I did not go with the REL TZero for 50k, feel this is a better deal at 14k more (albeit still likely overpriced)

Also, do try the sub crawl method to find the ideal spot for your sub amongst the available locations in your room.

I did try that, keeping the sub at my listening position. Couldn't hear any difference between the few spots available to place it, hence went with the most convenient one for now. Will give it another try after a few days.

 

[aeroash]

I did try that, keeping the sub at my listening position. Couldn't hear any difference between the few spots available to place it, hence went with the most convenient one for now. Will give it another try after a few days.

It's a long drawn process. It took me a couple of years before my ears could discern the nuances. Whatever changes you make, either in the positioning of speakers or dialling in the EQ/Tone, give it enough time in between. You'll know it when the music sounds right! Patience is the name of the game!

Subwoofers are the trickest to be integrated. But when you've found the precise crossover setting, and time/phase alignment, you're in for a treat!
Your audio experience is guaranteed transformed!

Here's a guide to get you started.
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/bass-integration-guide.88617/post-996031

 

[amrutmhatre90]

Enjoy your system now, even Thomas has liked the QB12.
Give it time and play around with settings after few days, with each passing day you will realize how each song plays and then tweak if needed according to your preference.
Sometimes we spend so much time in tweaking things that we forget to enjoy music.

 

[quixote_1989]

Here's a guide to get you started.
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/bass-integration-guide.88617/post-996031

Fantastic, thank you!

 

[quixote_1989]

I recently purchased the M20 HD mostly after reading your posts about it. They're a tremendous pair of speakers, thank you!!

The joy was short lived. After a month of flawless operation, the M20s suddenly died today.

No idea what happened, they were absolutely fine last night. But today the speakers won't power on anymore. Tried changing to the other in-box cables, different power outlet... no luck.

Lets see if their support can be of any help.

 

[wildbac]

The joy was short lived. After a month of flawless operation, the M20s suddenly died today.

No idea what happened, they were absolutely fine last night. But today the speakers won't power on anymore. Tried changing to the other in-box cables, different power outlet... no luck.

Lets see if their support can be of any help.

I have one one the way, this is scary.. Hoping the support guys will fix it or replace for you

 

[quixote_1989]

I have one one the way, this is scary.. Hoping the support guys will fix it or replace for you

Had contacted Hifimart also, who I had bought the speakers from. They gave two service center contacts in Bangalore, hoping for the best.

 

[deep_blues]

Had contacted Hifimart also, who I had bought the speakers from. They gave two service center contacts in Bangalore, hoping for the best.

Why hope? You have paid for it & it is under warranty. I'm sure Hifimart will provide after sales support. What is the point otherwise buying from authorised dealers, might as well pick from the grey market then

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

@DB1989

Bumping this old thread since I didn't want to create a duplicate one.

I recently purchased the M20 HD mostly after reading your posts about it. They're a tremendous pair of speakers, thank you!!

Now I am looking at some (budget) subwoofer options.
My usage is 60% music (spotify, apple music), and 40% movies/games/streaming. Not a basshead by any means, do not need my room to shake, just something that adds to and further enriches the sound quality of the speakers is enough. My room is also quite small, 10x11 feet. Budget is around 50-60k.

I was looking at the PSB Alpha S10 at 40k, (based on the one youtube review I found from Steve Guttenberg).
Then came across the REL Tzero MkIII at 50k- tiny 6.5" sub with low output, but said to be suitable for my room size and the brand is fairly enticing to me.
The REL T5/x should definitely be better but retailing at 80k now.

So, getting to the point, is there anything you would recommend for my usage, room size and budget?

Just my 2 cents, please take it with a big pinch of salt, as iam a huge qacoustics fan boy. I use a lot of qacoustics stuff in my living room system, including their tiny 8 inch sub. And for music, their sub is really fast to go with their speakers. So maybe you can send an email to qacoustics support, if any of their subs will match the M20 speakers. I started probably a decade ago with their Q7000i 5.1 system. The satellites when crossed over at 95hz to their sub as recommended, had the exact same bass tone at 95hz, as their sub. So it was impossible to make out where the satellite speakers ended and the sub took over. Subsequently, I replaced the front and center satellites with the qacoustics concept 40's and the concept center. Again when crossed over at 80hz, the handover from speaker to sub was impossible to make over, as they both had the same bass tone at 80hz. That seamlessness is important to me, especially where music matters. Not so much in a HT scenario. . And qacoustics know it too. So iam sure, they have a sub in their catalogue that will go seamlessly with the M20, and that is the only reason why they gave sub out.

I had a very similar experience with the kef ls50 wireless, their transition of bass was seamless with a kef RB400.

So maybe worth sending an email to qacoustics in my opinion, all the best

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

The behemoth arrived last night. I knew it will be big, but was still unprepared for just how big
I am kinda limited on the number of locations it can be placed in my room, but I think I found the better of those available spots.

Something that is bugging me though- looking at all reviews and the size of the thing, I had assumed it will output a ton of bass and that I will likely have to keep the subwoofer level at 30-50% max, considering my small room.

But in reality, I found that unless I crank it up to at least 70% I can barely hear/feel a difference over the QA M20 standalone (pun not intended).
It is very pleasing, mind you, and it could just be my inexperience speaking, but I still feel like there should be 'more' (even though I don't really need it).

Using these cables - BlueRigger Audio RCA Cable with Gold Plated connectors (1 RCA Subwoofer Cable 15 FT / 4.5 Meters) https://amzn.eu/d/5usjlqs

 Crossover set to 100.
Phase at 0, found that to be the better sounding option.
Cable connected from the M20 sub-out to the QB12's left input.

Taking the liberty to tag @DB1989 again for feedback, in case I have gotten something wrong.

Wow...sorry I posted in haste without reading till the end of this thread

I don't have a M20, but I would expect that the sub out RCA will have variable volume output. Have you set this volume to max.

What crossover are you using, the one inside the M20, or the physical Dail in the sub.

Sorry iam completely unfamiliar with the M20, so posting my above silly questions