Vintage HiFi upgrade is required or not?

[Manish Sharma]

Hi I have an old sony vintage hifi stereo set SONY STR414S with the speakers SS414 which was purchased by my father in 1979..I grew up listening to the fantastic sound of the stereo set...The sound quality was exceptional which wasnt easy to get in the newer modern amps...But unfortunately 20 years ago the amps transistors died and were hard to get..Dad somehow managed to get them from singapore but they werent original number and the sound quality was compromised..Anyways long story short I am still keeping the amp for looks in my room and since I loved the vintage sound out of it I managed to find one Sony STR7055A which came in 1975...But the sound isnt still that exceptional as the STR414S sounded...Also I used the same STR7055A with my Qacoustics 3050i floorstanding speakers..The sound is quite suppressed but when used with the vintage speakers the sound is good but has a lot of distortion. I read in some thread that we always need to change the crossover frequency filter of vintage speakers. The speaker driver is 12" and power is 80 watt @8 ohm. I am sharing the link that I read it from

modifying vintage speakers? yes or no

Where do you stand on this? If you have a pair of vintage speakers - old Tannoys or Altecs, etc. - in working order. Would you alter them by changing...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

I was thinking of getting a power amp too as the STR7055A has pre/power both..I can use it as a pre amp and getting the output from a power amp to my speakers.
My questions are
1. Is it a wise decision to go for the speaker crossover upgrade & Power amp upgrade for the same speakers?
2. Do you guys think like me as well about the vintage sound or its just me who is emotionally crazy about the sound my father had brought?
3. How can I test that the speakers have gone old and doesnt sound the same..I read it somewhea about the SPL meter.

Please guide me.. I have already spent a bit money on the restoration speaker cabinets. Attaching the pics below of specs & speaker crossover.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hi I have an old sony vintage hifi stereo set SONY STR414S with the speakers SS414 which was purchased by my father in 1979..I grew up listening to the fantastic sound of the stereo set...The sound quality was exceptional which wasnt easy to get in the newer modern amps...But unfortunately 20 years ago the amps transistors died and were hard to get..Dad somehow managed to get them from singapore but they werent original number and the sound quality was compromised..Anyways long story short I am still keeping the amp for looks in my room and since I loved the vintage sound out of it I managed to find one Sony STR7055A which came in 1975...But the sound isnt still that exceptional as the STR414S sounded...Also I used the same STR7055A with my Qacoustics 3050i floorstanding speakers..The sound is quite suppressed but when used with the vintage speakers the sound is good but has a lot of distortion. I read in some thread that we always need to change the crossover frequency filter of vintage speakers. The speaker driver is 12" and power is 80 watt @8 ohm. I am sharing the link that I read it from

modifying vintage speakers? yes or no

Where do you stand on this? If you have a pair of vintage speakers - old Tannoys or Altecs, etc. - in working order. Would you alter them by changing...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

I was thinking of getting a power amp too as the STR7055A has pre/power both..I can use it as a pre amp and getting the output from a power amp to my speakers.
My questions are
1. Is it a wise decision to go for the speaker crossover upgrade & Power amp upgrade for the same speakers?
2. Do you guys think like me as well about the vintage sound or its just me who is emotionally crazy about the sound my father had brought?
3. How can I test that the speakers have gone old and doesnt sound the same..I read it somewhea about the SPL meter.

Please guide me.. I have already spent a bit money on the restoration speaker cabinets. Attaching the pics below of specs & speaker crossover.

Hi again Manish

I think you misunderstood that discussion. What was meant is that the crossover parts will deteriorate over time. And 48 years is seriously too long. So you will have to replace the crossover parts.

In the pic that you posted, the component values are clearly visible. So you just have to replace with newer components of same values, and replace the wiring too. This will change how the speaker sounds, because every component in the crossover imparts its sound. But we are not changing the crossover frequencies itself. Just the parts.

I can understand that sentimental value alone makes this worth chasing. But to be on the safe side, have you checked the speaker driver surrounds and driver paper. Usually, they deteriorate over time if originally made of foam or paper. So, if the drivers are in good condition, then renewing the crossover will be worth the chase. And If you are serious, there are a few experienced DIY'ers here, who might be willing to do this for you.

 

[Manish Sharma]

Hi again Manish

I think you misunderstood that discussion. What was meant is that the crossover parts will deteriorate over time. And 48 years is seriously too long. So you will have to replace the crossover parts.

In the pic that you posted, the component values are clearly visible. So you just have to replace with newer components of same values, and replace the wiring too. This will change how the speaker sounds, because every component in the crossover imparts its sound. But we are not changing the crossover frequencies itself. Just the parts.

I can understand that sentimental value alone makes this worth chasing. But to be on the safe side, have you checked the speaker driver surrounds and driver paper. Usually, they deteriorate over time if originally made of foam or paper. So, if the drivers are in good condition, then renewing the crossover will be worth the chase. And If you are serious, there are a few experienced DIY'ers here, who might be willing to do this for you.

Thanks a ton for your valuable reply...As you suggested I checked the speakers and they appear to be alright..Do the speaker magnets also become weak over time...I will try building new crossovers from some DIY's...Is there any good DIY person you know who can help?? Any recommendations??

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Thanks a ton for your valuable reply...As you suggested I checked the speakers and they appear to be alright..Do the speaker magnets also become weak over time...I will try building new crossovers from some DIY's...Is there any good DIY person you know who can help?? Any recommendations??

You are most welcome

Magnets theoriticaly loose their field strength over time, but it is supposed to be a very slow process, as long as no physical impact or exposure to strong magnetic forces takes place. So it is not worth worrying over, as long as the driver cone and suspension are in good condition.

Regarding the crossover upgrade, it is easy to get carried away with newer capacitors etc...so it is best to have a firm budget allocated for the same, as there are very expensive capacitors out there. Ideally, please table in excel, a list of components you need as per component values of the existing crossover parts that are visible. Then check out the parts you need on "www.theaudiocrafts.com" site to get a rough estimate of the costs. Please do add new internal wiring and new crossover board for mounting everything. Now the only thing that remains is to solder everything. The corner cell phone repair shop wala can solder if you can prepare a rough sketch, it is not exactly rocket science. But if you find this all a bit taxing, then best to post in the "wanted" section, mentioning your requirements. You could either buy the parts from the above site and pay for the service of making it, or you can out source it completely. Either ways, sky is the limit when it comes to splurging on the crossover...so please keep a tab on the budget

 

[Manish Sharma]

You are most welcome

Magnets theoriticaly loose their field strength over time, but it is supposed to be a very slow process, as long as no physical impact or exposure to strong magnetic forces takes place. So it is not worth worrying over, as long as the driver cone and suspension are in good condition.

Regarding the crossover upgrade, it is easy to get carried away with newer capacitors etc...so it is best to have a firm budget allocated for the same, as there are very expensive capacitors out there. Ideally, please table in excel, a list of components you need as per component values of the existing crossover parts that are visible. Then check out the parts you need on "www.theaudiocrafts.com" site to get a rough estimate of the costs. Please do add new internal wiring and new crossover board for mounting everything. Now the only thing that remains is to solder everything. The corner cell phone repair shop wala can solder if you can prepare a rough sketch, it is not exactly rocket science. But if you find this all a bit taxing, then best to post in the "wanted" section, mentioning your requirements. You could either buy the parts from the above site and pay for the service of making it, or you can out source it completely. Either ways, sky is the limit when it comes to splurging on the crossover...so please keep a tab on the budget

I have found the same capacitor 3.3uF 50v on the website for JUST 90INR...What u meant by expensive capacitors ?? Does that mean I can have more powered capacitor for better quality ?? Will some other number work like 3.3uF 450V ??

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I have found the same capacitor 3.3uF 50v on the website for JUST 90INR...What u meant by expensive capacitors ?? Does that mean I can have more powered capacitor for better quality ?? Will some other number work like 3.3uF 450V ??

Haha...nope...we have to stick to the exact same values as printed. Any changes in values will change the crossover points. The prices are dependent on the quality of the components used in the crossover, the make and brand. There are expensive but very high quality offerings for the exact same values. You can check out offerings from Mundorf, nichicon, Solen, Wima, Jantzen etc. You might find them on Moser or might have to import them.

The types of capacitors best suited for crossovers is still debated. But the Diy'ers will have more accurate and specific knowledge than me. Best to start a thread in the Diy section, and let the experts there chip in.

 

[mbhangui]

Hi Manish,

Yellamanchili has given some sound advice. I just want to add my two cents here
1. Electrolytic capacitors are the worst affected by age. The electrolyte dries up with time. One of the first thing to do is replace each and every electrolytic caps with ones from Panasonic (for large values) and nichikon.
2. If you say the speaker cones are visually good, don't lose your sleep over it. The magnet does lose it's power over time but it will not cause distortion that you are experiencing. Most probably it is due to the caps and maybe the resistors drifting values over time. In this age you get much better resistors. Also you will need to adjust things like bias. The service manual will be handy in doing this.
3. For the transistors, look for the exact one or a modern replacement. You need to obtain the service manual for your amp. There are excellent forums where you will find lot of information
4. Don't lose hope. Start with the capacitors and re-adjusting controls as per the service manual. When it comes to restoration nothing is more important than the service manual.

 

[mbhangui]

I have found the same capacitor 3.3uF 50v on the website for JUST 90INR...What u meant by expensive capacitors ?? Does that mean I can have more powered capacitor for better quality ?? Will some other number work like 3.3uF 450V ??

The most important thing when replaicing the caps is the value and the make. Panasonic, Nakamichi and original Keltron. Yes!!! Keltron is made in the God's own beautiful communist state of Kerala and duplicates in the communist state known as China. The microfarad should be the same. The voltage rating should be the same or higher. There is something called ESR. A good capacitor will have a low ESR. When it comes to measuring components there are two tools.
1. LCR meter
2. ESR meter

Thankfully you don't have to spend tons of money getting them. IIRC I got both of them < Rs 5000 total cost or so (just to give you an idea).

 

[grindstone]

+1 what they said In addition, if the lead wires to the cone-speakers are long-enough, you may wish to invert those drivers so that gravity may work on the suspensions the other direction for the next 40 years.

 

[Manish Sharma]

Hi Folks...I just forgot to tell you about the changed tweeters of the speakers...Both the tweeters have been changed a year ago as they werent working...I installed the silk dome tweeters from the doogee sound...Is the mismatching may be the reason of distortion...Since the high frequency is harsh sounding to my ears as compared to my HT...The original tweeter size was 4inch.