subwoofer crossover setting

[ShaQ.Blogs]

You know what? Learn to talk to ppl first of all and save your knowledge for yourself.! Thank you.!

That statement was explicit not to undermine you...but your advice. To make it explicitly clear to anyone who is reading this post, that this is not the way to go and to ignore that post. That advice is a last ditch effort to set things work right, after making not so great choices!!

When a newbie or someone who dosen't know how some of the stuff works (Understandably you cant expect everyone to know), comes over and asks for advice, he is expecting reliable advice. Whatever he gets here he might think its right and spend precious time on it breaking his head. Other people who also read or bump across such posts will also think this is reliable advice. Makes it worse, especially when you consider that he is getting this kind of advice from someone who is kind of in the business (unfortunately), which tends to make people think, oh he knows!

With that one statement, one can understand that you don't in fact, but only bits and pieces...which is not good! So in this case, its best when someone with half knowledge, keeps that half knowledge to himself, and let someone else with better knowledge advise or... just let it be. He will go in search of other sources if he doesn't get help here... which hopefully can be reliable.

Crossover should be 20hz + your minimum floorstand frequency.

Statements like this are applicable for the speakers with bass limitations because, the user, unfortunately has no other choice and he if forced to go this route. The +20 Hz is used when the bass limitation is high. It is when your FS cant play low bass only then, do you set your cross over based on your FS. Most good FS's nowadays will easily play low bass even upto 30-40 Hz...some even lower. Good initial choices of speakers (with good low bass) makes life great, and hence can avoid distortion and early clipping by NOT setting bass too low. This of course requires reliable advise on choice of speakers. While choosing speakers, 'bass crossover' should be highly considered as this can dictate many other options including which receivers to drive with (and yes...choose your Fronts first and then the receiver).

When the FS are capable of playing low bass, then life is different & wonderful. This dosen't mean that you have to make the FS to play bass....you can do it, and there are many who do it. But, there are better choices with really really good reasons why you should go 'the better route'. Eventually it is all about allowing your speakers to play freely (Unless a little more distortion & clipping is acceptable at louder volumes). You want more bass...get a second one and place it well!

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

By localization you mean overlap of frequencies between FS and Sub?

No. Basically for very low frequency sounds, usually you cant know where the sounds are coming from. They are very non-directional. It can sound like it is coming from all around you. For instance it could be a loud rumble of say a big truck, and although the sub wud be playing it, & when you hear it with eyes closed you wont know that it is the sub which is playing it. If someone is speaking, which is midrange sounds, then you can easily know which speaker is playing it. Higher you go, for instance Hi-Frequency range which the tweeter plays, it is very directional and if you go 15-30 degrees off axis then you can easily know it sounds different as the hi frequencies are not heard well.

At present it is 80Hz and the mode is LFE+Main. But I am not satisfied in comparison to the performance that I had seen for some scenes in the shop. But unfortunately the AVR was different in the shop. I think settings need to be tweaked to improve the performance.

Set speakers as small, even of they are large. Now slowly experiment. 80 Hz is usually too much. Go down to 60hz. Set your sub to around half the volume, and crossover in sub to max. The cross over is better when set on the amplifier. Dont expect the same effects as the same as in the shop, as usually they are set up by some professional in an acoustic environment. But you can achieve close by trial and error. If it dosent work, google around for acoustic problems on bass. Some square rooms tend to have issues.

 

[akhil7j]

That statement was explicit not to undermine you...but your advice. To make it explicitly clear to anyone who is reading this post, that this is not the way to go and to ignore that post. That advice is a last ditch effort to set things work right, after making not so great choices!!

When a newbie or someone who dosen't know how some of the stuff works (Understandably you cant expect everyone to know), comes over and asks for advice, he is expecting reliable advice. Whatever he gets here he might think its right and spend precious time on it breaking his head. Other people who also read or bump across such posts will also think this is reliable advice. Makes it worse, especially when you consider that he is getting this kind of advice from someone who is kind of in the business (unfortunately), which tends to make people think, oh he knows!

With that one statement, one can understand that you don't in fact, but only bits and pieces...which is not good! So in this case, its best when someone with half knowledge, keeps that half knowledge to himself, and let someone else with better knowledge advise or... just let it be. He will go in search of other sources if he doesn't get help here... which hopefully can be reliable.
Statements like this are applicable for the speakers with bass limitations because, the user, unfortunately has no other choice and he if forced to go this route. The +20 Hz is used when the bass limitation is high. It is when your FS cant play low bass only then, do you set your cross over based on your FS. Most good FS's nowadays will easily play low bass even upto 30-40 Hz...some even lower. Good initial choices of speakers (with good low bass) makes life great, and hence can avoid distortion and early clipping by NOT setting bass too low. This of course requires reliable advise on choice of speakers. While choosing speakers, 'bass crossover' should be highly considered as this can dictate many other options including which receivers to drive with (and yes...choose your Fronts first and then the receiver).

When the FS are capable of playing low bass, then life is different & wonderful. This dosen't mean that you have to make the FS to play bass....you can do it, and there are many who do it. But, there are better choices with really really good reasons why you should go 'the better route'. Eventually it is all about allowing your speakers to play freely (Unless a little more distortion & clipping is acceptable at louder volumes). You want more bass...get a second one and place it well!

My dear friend,

Pls take your time and click on the thread below and read the post by venkatcr..

http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/15261-denon-1611-calibration.html

Another thing is, read my post again. In my second line I did say that it depends on your setup. What I suggested was quick and simple answer to his question. Once he will start tweaking it, he will get the best settings automatically.

advice from someone who is kind of in the business (unfortunately)

You are no one, absolutely no one to say something like this. This is a forum and there are rules. Take your time and read them or else you will be end up getting banned by the mods.

 

[akhil7j]

When the FS are capable of playing low bass, then life is different & wonderful. This dosen't mean that you have to make the FS to play bass....you can do it, and there are many who do it. But, there are better choices with really really good reasons why you should go 'the better route'. Eventually it is all about allowing your speakers to play freely (Unless a little more distortion & clipping is acceptable at louder volumes). You want more bass...get a second one and place it well!

So what you are trying to say here? And what did I say about +20hz? Obviously my point was to let the speaker play the audio freely and let the subwoofer handle low frequencies for which it is meant to be and you have bought specifically for that.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

So what you are trying to say here? And what did I say about +20hz? Obviously my point was to let the speaker play the audio freely and let the subwoofer handle low frequencies for which it is meant to be and you have bought specifically for that.

Firstly...you still havent got my point. Your statement is not the same. It is a whole lot different to what I explained earlier about playing freely.

Secondly..Are your referring to your post that you actually typed or something that you are imagining that you typed. Let me to quote it for you...

Crossover should be 20hz + your minimum floorstand frequency. Eg. if your floorstand can go as low as 40 Hz then put your crossover to 60hz. This is the best setting. But ofcourse it depends on your setup and your listening taste. You can try the settings which sound good in your room.

At no point in that post can I read any advice about playing it freely. Please be kind enough to point out where since you are so entirely convinced that you did.

Moreover, you gave a 'golden rule', which has absolutely no basis....and Best setting?
(a) Crossover should be 20hz + your minimum floorstand frequency. Eg. if your floorstand can go as low as 40 Hz then put your crossover to 60hz. This is the best setting.

You follow this immediately with a contradictory statement,
(b) But ofcourse it depends on your setup and your listening taste. You can try the settings which sound good in your room.

If (a) is your best setting like you so easily put it, then why do you need (b)? You already have the best setting.

When you type statements like (a), then you are basically communicating that you follow this as...this is the best setting. Which means there is no better setting. Any reasonably experienced or technically knowledge audioholic will tell you, there is no 'best setting' ever possible.

My advice for you and anyone else in this forum is very simple. Go ahead & Give advice. If you are not sure then make it clear to the OP that he would need to search around a bit more.
But, don't type nonsense and try to convince newbies among others that this is how it works, or give them a 'golden rule'...while there is absolutely no reasoning behind it.
There is no golden rule in audio. You could probably go ahead and tell some to try setting it at that frequency, but when you follow it with 'This is your best setting'...takes the advice to a new unreliable dimension in itself.

You are no one, absolutely no one to say something like this. This is a forum and there are rules. Take your time and read them or else you will be end up getting banned by the mods.

If one wants a reliable forum then...people who post advice which has no reasoning behind it, should be asked to refrain from giving it in the first place.

In advance, am not accusing you of doing the below intentionally.
What many forums do is highly moderate advice related to pricing, and advice from people in the business. This can lead to intentional bad advice as it tends to works in favor of business & dealers. A seller can give some good advice along with intentional not so good ones, which can make newbies to make a not so great choice and guess what they are in search for professional advice or even a new pair of speakers or amps, very soon after investing good money. I was a little shocked to see in some posts here where sellers offering to give a little discount. They should have a separate place within the forum to discuss prices and et all.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

Let me go back to a statement that I made earlier,

The +20 Hz is used when the bass limitation is high.

The 20+ or 30+ is too generic an advice. There is much much more to it. A more through technical analysis would give a better number above which to set the crossover.
This depends on numerous factors.
Which speakers are used? Is the crossover set on the sub or receiver? Which crossover is used? Which order crossover is used? What is the 3dB point? What the frequency response of both the sub & the fronts are around the lower frequencies? What the impedance of the speakers are? What the impedance-frequency response of the speakers are? Which amp is being used to drive if there are issues in the speaker or if low impedance speakers are used? What is the acoustic characteristics of the room? What is the frequency response of the room? And of course, the human - highly variable, listening factor...what sounds good to me need not sound good to you.
Hence with so many variables around (many of which have significant impact), and then when one considers that one should try to conserve power for fronts....one can see how highly unreliable & useless it is to follow generic golden rule advice.
The only reliable advice that can be given is to follow your ears...experiment, experiment & experiment. This can be made easier if one can get a better picture for a few of the questions above.