A cute little amp that’s topping in measurements

[Enkay78]

Yes…I know.

Some of you FMs will be facepalming. And even insinuate that I am an objectivist with a score against subjectivist. (I am not btw)

But ……man, after so many months, it brings a lots of enthusiastic joy to me to share this info (apology I have to share an ASR link again. And I know I will get the usual snide remarks from some expectant quarters. Anyway take this as a share to balanced out …..I still feel some amount of indebtedness to this forum.).

We now have very good measuring amps……much like the dacs.

……and it’s damn exciting. Especially at good price points.

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping PA5 stereo desktop amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $349. PA5 enclosure looks like their standard DACs and such: Hard to imagine that an amplifier can fit in the same size but here we are. There are large...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And yes it’s from Topping. Even if you have some aversion to these companies……the graphs and charts are astounding. It’s a big change in the industry (I feel). And maybe this could harbinger more better measuring amps/power amps.


So what’s are your thoughts? I am very much tempted to buy this amp. But not yet.

Personally I will wait for their PA9 flagship amp/power amp…..which will obviously have more power.

Btw feedbacks on the topic….no personal snides…

 

[msankadi]

Looks good any idea about the price and availability in India?

 

[Enkay78]

Looks good any idea about the price and availability in India?

I feel headphonezone wont miss the chance.

Me, I like buying direct from china….or even from Shenzenaudio.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

I feel headphonezone wont miss the chance.

Me, I like buying direct from china….or even from Shenzenaudio.

How customs and shipping works in these cases?

 

[bloredude]

So what’s are your thoughts? I am very much tempted to buy this amp. But not yet.
View attachment 64662

The graph is for "SINAD at 5 Watt/4Ohm Load". The performance may vary with increased power demand.

Not a very practical real world scenario for an everyday audiophile. But for some applications it will come handy for sure!

 

[arj]

Yes…I know.

Some of you FMs will be facepalming. And even insinuate that I am an objectivist with a score against subjectivist. (I am not btw)

But ……man, after so many months, it brings a lots of enthusiastic joy to me to share this info (apology I have to share an ASR link again. And I know I will get the usual snide remarks from some expectant quarters. Anyway take this as a share to balanced out …..I still feel some amount of indebtedness to this forum.).

We now have very good measuring amps……much like the dacs.

……and it’s damn exciting. Especially at good price points.

Your enthusiasm is apparent and good to see
Class D is really interesting. i was listening to something on the new M1 powerbooks and the sound is astounding coming from that tiny speaker/amplification.

Am sure the future of music is going to be very different

 

[raghupb]

Nice to see a desktop amp claiming to belt out impressive power on demand.
@Enkay78
Buy it and let us know how it compares/sounds to what you have in your stable.

On a side note, ASR lists Allo Volt+ D in the green zone (very good/good).
In my main rig (KEF or B&W), it was passable. I had to work with it to make it sound to my tastes.
On the desktop, it did a fantastic job with Monitor Audio R45.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

View attachment 64659View attachment 64660View attachment 64661View attachment 64657Yes…I know.

Some of you FMs will be facepalming. And even insinuate that I am an objectivist with a score against subjectivist. (I am not btw)

But ……man, after so many months, it brings a lots of enthusiastic joy to me to share this info (apology I have to share an ASR link again. And I know I will get the usual snide remarks from some expectant quarters. Anyway take this as a share to balanced out …..I still feel some amount of indebtedness to this forum.).

We now have very good measuring amps……much like the dacs.

……and it’s damn exciting. Especially at good price points.

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping PA5 stereo desktop amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $349. PA5 enclosure looks like their standard DACs and such: Hard to imagine that an amplifier can fit in the same size but here we are. There are large...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And yes it’s from Topping. Even if you have some aversion to these companies……the graphs and charts are astounding. It’s a big change in the industry (I feel). And maybe this could harbinger more better measuring amps/power amps.


So what’s are your thoughts? I am very much tempted to buy this amp. But not yet.

Personally I will wait for their PA9 flagship amp/power amp…..which will obviously have more power.

Btw feedbacks on the topic….View attachment 64662no personal snides…

Please bear in mind that I don't have anything against these amps. And I don't intend to diminish your excitement to get them either.

But I would like to add a practical view point to the theoretical science that ASR conveys.

In theory, the frequency curve of a system has to be flat. But harman found that people like a sloping curve, dropping off treble along the way. Because this is the way most ears like it. And listening to music is about liking it, not analysing it.

I have a friend in the UK who creates music on an active setup, with neuchrome power amps. They measure well and are very transparent. But as per him they sound flat and lifeless. And he uses tube amps to enjoy his own mixes.

So I would suggest to listen to the amps and see if you like their presentation. As measurements even from ASR are only half the picture. All the best

 

[Enkay78]

Please bear in mind that I don't have anything against these amps. And I don't intend to diminish your excitement to get them either.

But I would like to add a practical view point to the theoretical science that ASR conveys.

In theory, the frequency curve of a system has to be flat. But harman found that people like a sloping curve, dropping off treble along the way. Because this is the way most ears like it. And listening to music is about liking it, not analysing it.

I have a friend in the UK who creates music on an active setup, with neuchrome power amps. They measure well and are very transparent. But as per him they sound flat and lifeless. And he uses tube amps to enjoy his own mixes.

So I would suggest to listen to the amps and see if you like their presentation. As measurements even from ASR are only half the picture. All the best

Like I said in my post, I totally agree. (I am not against subjectivism)


My perspective towards objective measurements with audio device is this :

1. A good measured device is a well engineered product.

2. These devices can be EQed to what subjective flavours one wants.

3. Room acoustics can then be adjusted to such transparent devices.

4. So a disadvantage of colored music by poorly transparent devices is avoided.

5. Without audition, one can know that good measuring devices will be transparent.

(Btw your friend is like many other sound engineers....may have different taste. I know many friends in music industry very happy with pro system for their home listening)


Seeing this device from engineering point of view - a SINAD of >100db in an amp, very low distortion ........how many SOTA devices are there currently which measures equally good at this price point? (This is my excitement. )

 

[Hari Iyer]

I always dreamt of buying a pair of these amplifier and use them in a balanced output configuration. That unfortunately never happened.

 

[venkatcr]

The graph is for "SINAD at 5 Watt/4Ohm Load". The performance may vary with increased power demand.

Not a very practical real world scenario for an everyday audiophile. But for some applications it will come handy for sure!

I have been using a Class D amp everyday that does not come close to these specs. Whether I listen to Western Classical, Hindustani, Carnatic or even film songs, it has never let me down. The sound is perfect, the sound stage is great, and it is able to push every nuance of the music into your face. What more do you want? It does not color any voice or instrument, and the bass is deep enough. Pairing with the correct speakers is, of course, important. In spite of a far worse SINAD compared to the Topping, I have not heard any distortion till now. Many days, I have heard this amp for 6-8 hours a day when I am working.

Please read my detailed review.

At the same time, I have mentally compared it to Class A amps that costs in multiple Lakhs that I have heard. The Class D amp holds its own, and give the costlier guys a run for their money.

I think a large section of us 'audiophiles' have to wake up to the fact that there is a brave new world out there that is upsetting all known and accepted rules of playing and listening to music.

Cheers.

Just read what Amir of ASR says. He kind of echoes my thought process. The last line is important.

"Topping PA5 Speaker Listening Tests
I am confident of the transparency of this amplifier with respect to noise and distortion. However, I was curious how far its power goes. So I hooked up the PA5 to my Infinity Reference 253 speaker. I must stay, I was not prepared for the level of impact, fidelity and overall quality of the sound. The PA5 grabbed the ears of this speaker and pulled it any direction music asked it to like nobody's business! There was thundering bass. Superb high frequency and ability to fill my space despite only playing one speaker. It was hard to imagine this little amplifier powering this speaker so beautifully.

Conclusions
It is abundantly clear that ton of great engineering has gone into the design of Topping PA5. It breaks all barriers as far as noise and distortion, not only in its own budget/desktop class, but way, way outside of that. If it had double the power, it would obsolete all of them and in a hurry! As it is, I would certainly use it in a desktop or secondary system. And even primary if you are not going to blast the volume with super inefficient speakers.

It is my absolute pleasure to recommend the Topping PA5.

The dynamics of stereo amplifier market just changed folks!"

 

[mbhangui]

I too was very surprised when I hooked up a sub Rs 10k allo volt+ to my cadence arista speakers which were earlier being driven by a Rs 60k+ class A tube amp VA 1. The Mid & High frequency are much better in the cheap and cheap looking class D amp.

Indeed The dynamics of stereo amplifier market is changing with these dimunitive amps.

 

[keith_correa]

The Harman slope et al is all fine to the ears that like it or prefer it that way. THAT should be a function of the speakers that this is hooked up to. As @venkatcr rightly says "pairing with the correct speakers is important". Then there are harmonics - again to the ears that prefer that sort of thing, it is important and likeable. So yes, accurate sound is not everyone's cup of tea - most people equate that with sterile, lifeless and un-enjoyable sound and that is OK and an opinion.
Measurements tell it like it is. Period. Whether those measurements translate into likeable sound to a particular set of ears is a preference and yes, one should listen before buying to determine whether ANY gear meets that preference - no 2 ways about that and I don't think ANYONE suggests otherwise.

 

[venkatcr]

Just so everyone is clear, the Topping PA5 is a power amplifier. It needs a pre-amp of some kind. It's input sensitivity is 2.6Vrms.

 

[Enkay78]

I too was very surprised when I hooked up a sub Rs 10k allo volt+ to my cadence arista speakers which were earlier being driven by a Rs 60k+ class A tube amp VA 1. The Mid & High frequency are much better in the cheap and cheap looking class D amp.

Indeed The dynamics of stereo amplifier market is changing with these dimunitive amps.

View attachment 64669

I am looking forward to the new Allo amp....want to see it's performance. (As it's not possible for me to audition before I buy)

 

[mbhangui]

I am looking forward to the new Allo amp....want to see it's performance. (As it's not possible for me to audition before I buy)

The only problem with the allo amp was the binding posts behind. It's a bit cramped to put a large cable with large spade connector. In my case the cable was heavier than the AMP and it would lift the amp up in the air. I opened it, re-arranged the posts like this (assuming that I am looking at it from the front potentiometer side).

RL --- BL. BR --- RR from the original arrangement of (RL --- BL RR --- BR). These prevents the middle RED and middle Black terminals from touching each other and shorting the speakers.

Here
RL - Red Left
BL - Black Left

BR - Black Right
RR - Red Right

 

[bloredude]

I have been using a Class D amp everyday that does not come close to these specs. Whether I listen to Western Classical, Hindustani, Carnatic or even film songs, it has never let me down. The sound is perfect, the sound stage is great, and it is able to push every nuance of the music into your face. What more do you want? It does not color any voice or instrument, and the bass is deep enough. Pairing with the correct speakers is, of course, important. In spite of a far worse SINAD compared to the Topping, I have not heard any distortion till now. Many days, I have heard this amp for 6-8 hours a day when I am working.

Please read my detailed review.

At the same time, I have mentally compared it to Class A amps that costs in multiple Lakhs that I have heard. The Class D amp holds its own, and give the costlier guys a run for their money.

I think a large section of us 'audiophiles' have to wake up to the fact that there is a brave new world out there that is upsetting all known and accepted rules of playing and listening to music.

Cheers.

Just read what Amir of ASR says. He kind of echoes my thought process. The last line is important.

"Topping PA5 Speaker Listening Tests
I am confident of the transparency of this amplifier with respect to noise and distortion. However, I was curious how far its power goes. So I hooked up the PA5 to my Infinity Reference 253 speaker. I must stay, I was not prepared for the level of impact, fidelity and overall quality of the sound. The PA5 grabbed the ears of this speaker and pulled it any direction music asked it to like nobody's business! There was thundering bass. Superb high frequency and ability to fill my space despite only playing one speaker. It was hard to imagine this little amplifier powering this speaker so beautifully.

Conclusions
It is abundantly clear that ton of great engineering has gone into the design of Topping PA5. It breaks all barriers as far as noise and distortion, not only in its own budget/desktop class, but way, way outside of that. If it had double the power, it would obsolete all of them and in a hurry! As it is, I would certainly use it in a desktop or secondary system. And even primary if you are not going to blast the volume with super inefficient speakers.

It is my absolute pleasure to recommend the Topping PA5.

The dynamics of stereo amplifier market just changed folks!"

I am not sure how this post negates/contradicts what my post says. Anyway, let me address some points made here.

First up, I am not against or for any amplification class. If a new class of amplification is devised, manufactured, marketed, adopted, it is obvious that it has met certain goals and it has been deemed commercially viable. So, let's not make it "this class" vs "that class" debate. That would be a very dumb thing to do.

"I have been using a Class D amp everyday" -- I'm sure you do. And I am sure you like it. Millions of people have for years enjoyed bluetooth, and millions of them (honestly) swear they can't hear a difference. Does that make bluetooth a tech comparable to other more sophisticated wireless data transfer protocol when it comes to reproducing music? I have to disagree with anyone who thinks that way.

Measurements are one thing, understanding/translating measurements quite another. ASR has built a fan-following because a lot of people swear by measurements. Their fan-base is made of that crowd. A large percentage (if not majority) of that crowd are people who think better measuring = better sounding. I don't think that way, and have no reason to try and influence the thinking of those who do. I think they are alright if they think what they think.

"Whether I listen to Western Classical, Hindustani, Carnatic or even film songs, it has never let me down." -- I used to think that way, too, decades ago when my primary equipment were one-box systems. But today I think as we evolve we begin to appreciate things that were missing (or not missing) in the past. I didn't feel let down back then, nor do I feel let down now.

"The sound is perfect, the sound stage is great, and it is able to push every nuance of the music into your face. What more do you want?" -- I am sure you love your system to pieces. It will be nice if you share about your system in details so that people can learn how to build a system that reproduces the "perfect sound". Though I would be very skeptical of any claim about "perfect sound". I have heard systems costing hundreds of thousands of US dollars and couldn't get a sense of perfect sound in any of them. So your description can be helpful to many people.

"What more do you want?" -- All I want is an amp that plays well in my system and gets out of the way of music. Any amp of any class that can do that is welcome in my rig. Even if that happens to be an inexpensive class A.

 

[superczar]

I am not sure how this post negates/contradicts what my post says. Anyway, let me address some points made here.

First up, I am not against or for any amplification class. If a new class of amplification is devised, manufactured, marketed, adopted, it is obvious that it has met certain goals and it has been deemed commercially viable. So, let's not make it "this class" vs "that class" debate. That would be a very dumb thing to do.

"I have been using a Class D amp everyday" -- I'm sure you do. And I am sure you like it. Millions of people have for years enjoyed bluetooth, and millions of them (honestly) swear they can't hear a difference. Does that make bluetooth a tech comparable to other more sophisticated wireless data transfer protocol when it comes to reproducing music? I have to disagree with anyone who thinks that way.

Measurements are one thing, understanding/translating measurements quite another. ASR has built a fan-following because a lot of people swear by measurements. Their fan-base is made of that crowd. A large percentage (if not majority) of that crowd are people who think better measuring = better sounding. I don't think that way, and have no reason to try and influence the thinking of those who do. I think they are alright if they think what they think.

"Whether I listen to Western Classical, Hindustani, Carnatic or even film songs, it has never let me down." -- I used to think that way, too, decades ago when my primary equipment were one-box systems. But today I think as we evolve we begin to appreciate things that were missing (or not missing) in the past. I didn't feel let down back then, nor do I feel let down now.

"The sound is perfect, the sound stage is great, and it is able to push every nuance of the music into your face. What more do you want?" -- I am sure you love your system to pieces. It will be nice if you share about your system in details so that people can learn how to build a system that reproduces the "perfect sound". Though I would be very skeptical of any claim about "perfect sound". I have heard systems costing hundreds of thousands of US dollars and couldn't get a sense of perfect sound in any of them. So your description can be helpful to many people.

"What more do you want?" -- All I want is an amp that plays well in my system and gets out of the way of music. Any amp of any class that can do that is welcome in my rig. Even if that happens to be an inexpensive class A.

There is no such thing as perfect sound I suppose.
Most people prefer some degree of coloration in their music - or in other words, have a preferred response curve combined - and in some cases a preferred distortion curve as well.

With portable devices (e.g. BT Headphones), you want the response curve as well as distortion curve to be aligned with your expectations within the end device.. (Also the reason why I absolutely love the Airpods max despite they measuring poorly on ASR)

With chained devices though, it gets a little different - Ideally you want the Amplifier specifically to be as well measuring as possible.. i.e. if you treat your amp as a pure amplification device ..

The curve preferences are best handled at the speaker stage in a chained setup- (or at pre-amplification for the electronic correction folks)

In some cases, a few lucky folks may end up finding an amplifier that has just the right amount of deviation that suits their ears - but thats just providence.

 

[venkatcr]

First up, I am not against or for any amplification class. If a new class of amplification is devised, manufactured, marketed, adopted, it is obvious that it has met certain goals and it has been deemed commercially viable. So, let's not make it "this class" vs "that class" debate. That would be a very dumb thing to do.

The debate or differences of opinion is always about the class of amps. There is nothing dumb about that. People who have been using class A believe nothing can come close to that. All I am saying is that, today, class D amps have come very close, and, in some cases, even surpassed class A amps in all aspects. Keep your mind open. Being an audiophile does not mean just class A.

"I have been using a Class D amp everyday" -- I'm sure you do. And I am sure you like it. Millions of people have for years enjoyed bluetooth, and millions of them (honestly) swear they can't hear a difference. Does that make bluetooth a tech comparable to other more sophisticated wireless data transfer protocol when it comes to reproducing music? I have to disagree with anyone who thinks that way.

Here is the crux of the matter. Let us take Bluetooth. The original BT was not meant for music. But as people started using it more and more, engineers have started working on it to improve its capabilities. AptX and LDAC have been proven through measurements to deliver CD quality music in terms of frequency coverage, speed and whatever aspect you deem fit. Remember, no technology (read 'data transfer protocol') can sit on the throne for too long. It will be dethroned however sophisticated it is. The demand and usage of BT is so high, engineers will equal or surpass any other sophisticated protocol. At the end of the day, it is about codecs. Better and more demanding codecs have been and will be written.

Measurements are one thing, understanding/translating measurements quite another. ASR has built a fan-following because a lot of people swear by measurements. Their fan-base is made of that crowd. A large percentage (if not majority) of that crowd are people who think better measuring = better sounding. I don't think that way, and have no reason to try and influence the thinking of those who do. I think they are alright if they think what they think.

Measurements do one thing - they remove the subjectivity of discussions. The completely meaningless 'I can hear it, can't you?' kind of arguments that are so prevalent in this line. As I have said many times before, some of the reviewers 'hear' things which even the poor original artists never dreamt of.

"Whether I listen to Western Classical, Hindustani, Carnatic or even film songs, it has never let me down." -- I used to think that way, too, decades ago when my primary equipment were one-box systems. But today I think as we evolve we begin to appreciate things that were missing (or not missing) in the past. I didn't feel let down back then, nor do I feel let down now.

What I meant was that the system works across all kinds of music.

"The sound is perfect, the sound stage is great, and it is able to push every nuance of the music into your face. What more do you want?" -- I am sure you love your system to pieces. It will be nice if you share about your system in details so that people can learn how to build a system that reproduces the "perfect sound". Though I would be very skeptical of any claim about "perfect sound". I have heard systems costing hundreds of thousands of US dollars and couldn't get a sense of perfect sound in any of them. So your description can be helpful to many people.

The details are there in my detailed review. Please read that.

"What more do you want?" -- All I want is an amp that plays well in my system and gets out of the way of music. Any amp of any class that can do that is welcome in my rig. Even if that happens to be an inexpensive class A.

See? Irrespective of what you say, your heart is still with class A.

All I am asking is this - do keep your mind and ears open for other forms of amplification. You will be surprised. The lowly $25 Pi has stunned the world with what it can do in processing, music, and video. If and when Windows is installable on the Pi, it can very well kill your Intel and AMD based systems. Fortunately or unfortunately, this will never happen.

Today companies such as TI, Infineon, Analog, ST and others are spending billion of dollars in improving both digital to analog conversion as well as amplification. No one is spending money on improving the technology in other classes of amplification. When you have the time, please read about the Merus technology from Infineon.

Enjoy the music.

Cheers

 

[Enkay78]

Personally I feel what I hear depends on:

1. The speakers (it's the end sonic transducer)

2. Room acoustics

3. My mood.

4. The source quality (not the bitrate or format but the quality of recording)

And last 5. The audio reproduction devices prechain before the speakers.


My interest in amps per se is from the perspective of HOW TRANSPARENT IT CAN PRODUCE THE AUDIO SIGNALS TO THE SPEAKER COILS.

IN THIS SENSE I PERSONALLY PREFER AN AMP BE IT CLASS A, B, AB, D, H G or whatever which will be truthful in producing the audio signals be it analogue or digital.

Now currently we have so called SOTA Class A amps which cost thousands/lakhs of rupees. (Who in a sane mind would want to mortgage his house for an amp? )

Then we have such Class D amps which can give SOTA amplification at such price points.

Given a choice, I like to prefer the more value for money but excellent performing amps. WHY? this will drive the industry to cater to consumers like me who wants the best bang for their bucks performance wise.

The rest of the debate is highly subjective