A 5.1 (AVR) and 2.1 (2Ch AMP) setup .. Possible and Effective

[hemant0285]

Yes, very much true.

When it is a pre from the AVR, it means, one can control strength of the signal feed (in other words, volume control). You can easily connect a power amp here.

However, since my DVDp is connected by HDMI cable to the AVR, am not able to hear CD source in the zone 2 since it would be digital signals received at the integrated amp inlet. Of course can add an external DAC to make it operational for CD, but would unnecessarily complicate the entire scheme as the other analogue sources would become redundant in the simple scheme. I do not mind CD music 'hear' in the main room.

Wow lots of discussions! VenkatCR has already explained all the key technicals- I will only elaborate.

a) In a 5.1 set up if the AVR volume is adjusted the Preout levels also get adjusted hence there is no need to adjust the Amp volume again. (I did the calibration with Amp volume set at 11 O Clock position)


b) Biamping a speaker: As Venkat explained this involves splitting the drivers with in the same speaker box to two different amplifier streams and driving them simultaneously. From what I understood, you were referring to driving the speakers either through AVR or though the Amplifier by giving a parallel connection. This should be attempted only if you have a mechanical selector switch as Venkat suggested, else you can damage the speaker drivers if both are switched on simultaneously.

Finally I would like to share my experience with 5.1 Channel vs. 2 Channel for Music:

I have a similar set up as described by Hemant with an important addition of the ability to connect the Integrated Amplifier directly to source music completely eliminating the AVR.
The music source: OGG/Flac/High Bit mp3 on HDD - > Xtreamer -> Cambridge DAC Magic-> Integrated Amp Azur 650A -> Front Speakers.

To my ears the improvement in Music Sound Quality with above set up is minimal compared to routing from Xtreamer to AVR in Pure Direct mode. (The AVR does the digital to Analogue conversion in this case). Havent tried connecting AVR through DAC Magic.

I feel that additional amplifier set up for 2 channel music should be attempted only if you have a dedicated home theater room with good acoustics. (In my case I have set this up in the living room with out any sound treatment to the room and hence am not able to perceive the SQ).

Hemant: Are you planning to add the AVR to an existing Stereo Amp set up like I did?
If you plan to purchase both that it is essential that you also think of where the DAC is going to happen. You will need a high end DVD/CD player to truly bring out the sound Quality. Else you are better off with a simple AVR set up with out the 2 channel Amplifier for the fronts.

From Point a)

This is wat I wanted to know.. I guess this clears the difference between PREOUT nd ZONE2 Out... Tat Preout volume is controlled by AVR

Jagsidh sir, As u said I want to go with AVR+2ch Amp driving the fronts.....My music source would be thru an ipod dock connected to the 2ch amp directly... and Movie source wd be a 5.1 ch WDTV Live player connected thru HDMI to the AVR(rears and centre connected to it) and fronts thru the PreOuts of AVR >>2ch Amp...

Thanks all for clearing the confusion..I think the above setup s gonna work fine.. But thru HDMI form WDTV live will theAVR be able to push the Front Channel sound thru the PreOuts...??? As HDMI is a digital connection...?

Finally I would like to share my experience with 5.1 Channel vs. 2 Channel for Music:

I have a similar set up as described by Hemant with an important addition of the ability to connect the Integrated Amplifier directly to source music completely eliminating the AVR.
The music source: OGG/Flac/High Bit mp3 on HDD - > Xtreamer -> Cambridge DAC Magic-> Integrated Amp Azur 650A -> Front Speakers.

To my ears the improvement in Music Sound Quality with above set up is minimal compared to routing from Xtreamer to AVR in Pure Direct mode. (The AVR does the digital to Analogue conversion in this case). Havent tried connecting AVR through DAC Magic.

.

Is the difference in sound quality from
A..ipod dock or CDplayer>>AMP>>Speakers
B..ipod dock or CDplayer>>AVR>>preout>>AMP>>SSpeakers {IN Pure DIRECT MODE}
MINIMAL?? As jagdish sir said...?? Sir?? If tats the case I can rule out the AMP totally as I wanted to add the amp for music only... since during my audition the music from AVR in normal mode (NON Puredirect Mode) didnt sound tat great..but it was totally different from a 2ch amp... May be I didnt chek out the PureDirect feature tat time....

Is d sound quality comparision between 2ch amp and PureDirect Mode almost same ???
.

 

[avidyarthy]

From Point a)


Thanks all for clearing the confusion..I think the above setup s gonna work fine.. But thru HDMI form WDTV live will theAVR be able to push the Front Channel sound thru the PreOuts...??? As HDMI is a digital connection...?


.

The AVR inbuilt DAC should take care of this. Analogue signal by now ...

 

[mpw]

Hi,

My set up includes a 5.1 ch AVR and a 2 channel stereo amplifier. I took the front left and right pre outs of my AVR and connected them to the stereo amp. The DVD player is connected to the AVR. The sub woofer is connecteds to the AVR as well as are the center and the rear speakers.

The front left and rights speakers are connected to the stereo amp.

For 2 channel music - i just play the DVDP + stereo amp ( AVR is off )
For movies - same as above + avr and sub ON
For 2.1 channel - DVDP + stereo + sub woofer thru AVR. IN this case i have set the center and rear speakers to Nil.

hope this helps.

regards,
mpw

 

[hemant0285]

Hi,

My set up includes a 5.1 ch AVR and a 2 channel stereo amplifier. I took the front left and right pre outs of my AVR and connected them to the stereo amp. [b}The DVD player is connected to the AVR.[/B] The sub woofer is connecteds to the AVR as well as are the center and the rear speakers.

The front left and rights speakers are connected to the stereo amp.

For 2 channel music - i just play the DVDP + stereo amp ( AVR is off )
For movies - same as above + avr and sub ON
For 2.1 channel - DVDP + stereo + sub woofer thru AVR. IN this case i have set the center and rear speakers to Nil.

hope this helps.

regards,
mpw

Yes, Indeed it was helpful...mpw how hav u connected yr DVD player to the AVR ... Analogue or thru HDMI?? As I am aware tat Pioneer DV-410 has a HDMI out also.... if its thru HDMI are u able to play the music (2channel) {say thru an audio CD}...while the AVR is in standby mode??
If yes Then I guess there is HDMI passthru and 2 channel sound is sent to the preouts>>AMP>>Speakers........


OR?
Hav u connected the DVD to amp by analoge cable(composite)and to the AVR with a HDMI Cable...2 connections from th DVD Player?

Your inputs are welcome...
Thanks

 

[mpw]

Yes, Indeed it was helpful...mpw how hav u connected yr DVD player to the AVR ... Analogue or thru HDMI?? As I am aware tat Pioneer DV-410 has a HDMI out also.... if its thru HDMI are u able to play the music (2channel) {say thru an audio CD}...while the AVR is in standby mode??
If yes Then I guess there is HDMI passthru and 2 channel sound is sent to the preouts>>AMP>>Speakers........


OR?
Hav u connected the DVD to amp by analoge cable(composite)and to the AVR with a HDMI Cable...2 connections from th DVD Player?

Your inputs are welcome...
Thanks

===============================================

Option 2 in your above post.. analog from DVD to amp and to AVR with HDMI

mpw

 

[hemant0285]

===============================================

Option 2 in your above post.. analog from DVD to amp and to AVR with HDMI

mpw

Does HDMI does not send the Audio (from audio CD 2..channel) directly to AVR by HDMI..... Like,,If u remove the analog cables and try listenin to an audio cd ...

Audio Cd..Music >>HDMI>>AVR>>PreOut>>AMP>>>Front Speakers....>Does this work.... (When the analog cable is removed))Please try this....
thanks

 

[jagdish_p]

Does HDMI does not send the Audio (from audio CD 2..channel) directly to AVR by HDMI..... Like,,If u remove the analog cables and try listenin to an audio cd ...

Audio Cd..Music >>HDMI>>AVR>>PreOut>>AMP>>>Front Speakers....>Does this work.... (When the analog cable is removed))Please try this....
thanks

Audio through HDMI works. Thats how I have connected my Xtreamer to AVR. Note that the Digital to Analogue conversion happens in the AVR . You should opt for Analogue input to AVR only if you feel that your CD player is a high end one and has better DAC electronics then the AVR.

 

[jagdish_p]

Yes it works even in pure direct mode

 

[jagdish_p]

From Point a)


Is the difference in sound quality from
A..ipod dock or CDplayer>>AMP>>Speakers
B..ipod dock or CDplayer>>AVR>>preout>>AMP>>SSpeakers {IN Pure DIRECT MODE}
MINIMAL?? As jagdish sir said...?? Sir?? If tats the case I can rule out the AMP totally as I wanted to add the amp for music only... since during my audition the music from AVR in normal mode (NON Puredirect Mode) didnt sound tat great..but it was totally different from a 2ch amp... May be I didnt chek out the PureDirect feature tat time....

Is d sound quality comparision between 2ch amp and PureDirect Mode almost same ???
.

I tried out the following. (For the same source Music)

a) Xtreamer->DACMagic->2 Channel Amp ( Xtreamer to Dacmagic is through Toslink connection)
b)Xtreamer->AVR (Input connection HDMI)->Preout->2Channel Amp (Analogue connection) . I listened in all three options of AVR without Sub 1) Pure Direct 2) Straight 3) 2 Channel Stereo

Option "a" is marginally better. I couldn't make out any difference between options b1,b2 or b3. Probably I am getting old and my hearing is not so good :lol:
So if you found a difference in your audition revisit it :
Ensure same source music. Also check where the Digital to Analogue is happening. The difference in sound quality you are perceiving could be due to DAC and not the Amplifier.

Finally if you are planning to use an Ipod as music source a word of caution.

a) Ensure that your Music source files are Lossless , or atleast 192 kbps or higher else they will sound flat even on the best Amplifier set up .
b) Ensure that you are taking the Digital signal from the IPOD dock to AVR and not the Analog.

 

[hemant0285]

I tried out the following. (For the same source Music)

a) Xtreamer->DACMagic->2 Channel Amp ( Xtreamer to Dacmagic is through Toslink connection)
b)Xtreamer->AVR (Input connection HDMI)->Preout->2Channel Amp (Analogue connection) . I listened in all three options of AVR without Sub 1) Pure Direct 2) Straight 3) 2 Channel Stereo

Option "a" is marginally better. I couldn't make out any difference between options b1,b2 or b3. Probably I am getting old and my hearing is not so good :lol:
So if you found a difference in your audition revisit it :
Ensure same source music. Also check where the Digital to Analogue is happening. The difference in sound quality you are perceiving could be due to DAC and not the Amplifier.

Finally if you are planning to use an Ipod as music source a word of caution.

a) Ensure that your Music source files are Lossless , or atleast 192 kbps or higher else they will sound flat even on the best Amplifier set up .
b) Ensure that you are taking the Digital signal from the IPOD dock to AVR and not the Analog.

Well I was thinking that the Amplifier was doing the magic... of playing the music better than the AVR... Doubts Cleared....!! DAC or since during the audition which was thru a CD player.. I guess it sounded great being connected to a discrete 2ch amp and Mordaunt Short Aviano Speakers
Thanks...
I would audition again ...
And all my Mp3 content is 320kbps and few Flac... Does Flac gives a better sound while playing thru AVR... As,,while listening to the same song in PC connected to a Creative Speaker system,.... The difference in sound quality between 320kbps and flac can be barely made out...

Thanks again...
If we remove the AMP for driving the fronts, ((instead connect the fronts directly to the AVR)) ,,DO u still get the effect as Option a, b1, b2 ,b3 (as described by u...above) or

Is adding AMP an advantage ?? Watever the method may be a,b1,b2,b3....over driving the fronts by the AVR itself and not using the AMP s capability..

 

[jagdish_p]

Theoretically FLAC is better then MP3 - 320 Kbps. I do not think that you will notice the difference.
Adding an Amp for the fronts does give an advantage. If I were to buy both AVR and Amp I will buy the AVR first and add the Amp later if I feel the need

 

[doors666]

here are my thoughts on the whole issue. most of these have been already voiced by others

dont go for a separate power amp, get an intgrated amp instead as in that case you will be able to add the music related sources directly to the integrated. secondly you will be able to bypass the avr while listening to music.

a norge will not be able to beat a yammy/denon. look for a better amp.

dont go for this if your source is going to be an ipod/dvd player. money down the toilet for nothing. use either flacs or cds. if you cannot distinguish between mp3 and flacs, you are again wasting your money. use a cd player or htpc with good sound card and feed the analog outs to the integrated. If you cd player dac cant beat the avr dac, again a waste of money.

About the subwoofer, there is only one possible way to use it for both music and movies. connect the sub to the integrated amp (either using speaker outs or tape out depending upon what inputs your sub takes). In the AVR, set the fronts to large, and all other speakers to small, this way all the bass goes to the front speakers, which is handled by the integrated.

 

[hemant0285]

Theoretically FLAC is better then MP3 - 320 Kbps. I do not think that you will notice the difference.
Adding an Amp for the fronts does give an advantage. If I were to buy both AVR and Amp I will buy the AVR first and add the Amp later if I feel the need

I am thinking on d same lines.. :clapping:
.. And while it comes to budget only Yamaha V667 has got the Pre-Outs compared to d Denon 1911... or may be wait for some more time for prices of Denon 2311 to slash down....

 

[hemant0285]

here are my thoughts on the whole issue. most of these have been already voiced by others

dont go for a separate power amp, get an intgrated amp instead as in that case you will be able to add the music related sources directly to the integrated. secondly you will be able to bypass the avr while listening to music.

a norge will not be able to beat a yammy/denon. look for a better amp.

dont go for this if your source is going to be an ipod/dvd player. money down the toilet for nothing. use either flacs or cds. if you cannot distinguish between mp3 and flacs, you are again wasting your money. use a cd player or htpc with good sound card and feed the analog outs to the integrated. If you cd player dac cant beat the avr dac, again a waste of money.

About the subwoofer, there is only one possible way to use it for both music and movies. connect the sub to the integrated amp (either using speaker outs or tape out depending upon what inputs your sub takes). In the AVR, set the fronts to large, and all other speakers to small, this way all the bass goes to the front speakers, which is handled by the integrated.

By Integrated Amp.. U mean ..models like Marantz PM5003 or Cambridge Audio s Azur 340A... If yes.. I am planning for something like that only...
Well I still got to try out Flac vs Mp3 again with a better Player...

Can u suggest some method of playing the Flacs... where they can be distinguished from Mp3... from a WDTV Live player??Possible or got to have a separate DAC??