A disastrous subwoofer journey

[Decadent_Spectre]

Why not try what I have suggested then?

 

[Love4sound]

Why not try what I have suggested then?

Listen with different delay values right? Yeah indeed I have tried that as well. In avr I have tried from 8-18 feet. In mini dsp I have tried two best delays values set with either front or rear sub. What else I have missed? Delay knob in the sub won’t be active when using LFE connection

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

As I've mentioned what you describe is not a frequency problem, saying you chose one over the other because it measures well according to you is not going to solve your issue. If it sounds better then I agree. In either case your issue will be solved IMO when you are able to adjust the rear sub or front sub and speakers together, in both phase and delay, 180 degrees in 5 degree increments and 0-20 ms delay in 0.1ms increments. By this I mean adjust and listen, no need to measure it.

Edit : Added clarification.

Try this on rear sub and then on front sub + speakers. AVR is useless IMO, do it with miniDSP or other DSP.

 

[Love4sound]

Try this on rear sub and then on front sub + speakers. AVR is useless IMO, do it with miniDSP or other DSP.

Ok.How to test to 180 degree by 5 degrees increment? In my sub the phase knob won’t work while using LFE connection.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

You need to use DSP for both phase and delay, doesn't the miniDSP have both?

 

[Love4sound]

You need to use DSP for both phase and delay, doesn't the miniDSP have both?

Mini dsp let’s you add delays, set a HP or LP filter and invert. As far as I know both phase and delays are for the same purpose which is to align the sub with the mains. You don’t need both. In older systems you won’t have LFE management so to set delays we use the phase knob in the sub when connected through line in.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

You need both, minidsp is very simple basic DSP, it's not very good but it is cheap and it's made famous by the people at AVS (AVS is rubbish but that's another topic). If it doesn't let you do both then see what you can do with just the delays, if not then you could consider another DSP.

 

[jenson]

Such an incredible problem to solve

 

[Kannan]

What is the distance to the listening position of the 2 subs and the distance to the mains?

 

[Love4sound]

What is the distance to the listening position of the 2 subs and the distance to the mains?

MLP from center is 8 feet, from main it’s roughly 8.5-8.8 feet, from front sub it’s 8.5-9 feet and rear sub is at 3-4 feet.

 

[Love4sound]

Thanks a lot every one. I did AB comparisons with single vs dual and I really enjoy the single sub experience since the duals are not integrating. I am selling one sub and not willing to do any more experiment with duals.

 

[insane79]

Thanks a lot every one. I did AB comparisons with single vs dual and I really enjoy the single sub experience since the duals are not integrating. I am selling one sub and not willing to do any more experiment with duals.

Sometimes keeping things simple sounds better

 

[Love4sound]

Sometimes keeping things simple sounds better

Hahah. For sure if I put in more time and try different placements it may work. But I don’t have the time and health. I calibrated a single sub to my listening levels and listening to few music and action sequence I enjoyed a lot. So it got me thinking why waste time testing and better to continue enjoying one sub.Finally after 8 months my ears are Atleast letting me watch occasionally using a single sub at low volume levels and I decided to enjoy those time rather then experimenting.A single LV12F is very good and I am impressed. Good for both movies and music in my small room.One sold and May be after some time I sell this one sub and get a single fvx12 and settle for good

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

Delete

 

[Nitin K]

Sometimes keeping things simple sounds better

I fully concur with that. The less equipment in the chain, the better it is and life also is simple and less stressful apart from the money saved.

 

[sud98]

Time to sell your minidsp too

 

[Love4sound]

Time to sell your minidsp too

Haha yeah that’s next in line. @Tuhin Lavania booked it already. Are u also interested? I will decide by next month since I have calibrated even a single sub using mini dsp and results are very good. I will calibrate without mini dsp and check if can get similar results and finalise sale.

 

[cmsajith]

Just tried the room and sub locations in the RoomSim and got almost the same response with a huge null around the critical area (Figure I) as measured.

- Place the Sub2 at the half of the side wall (1/3rd is also fine), got the following (Figure II) simulation with a slight dip in the 87-90Hz region.
- Increasing the crossover point to 100Hz gave a boost (~5dB) over that dip area (Figure III), optional though.
- Adding a 3ms delay to Sub2 gave the following graph with another 8dB boost (Figure IV), almost flat.
- Boost the gain below 200 or 250Hz to the house curve. Audyssey will also flatten all the peaks in the 45-70Hz region.
Try this out, probably this may help.


Figure I (BEFORE)


Figure II (Sub2 mid way of the sidewall)


Figure III (Crossover : 100Hz)


Figure IV (AFTER \ 3ms Sub2 delay, adds another 8dB boost. Audessey will flatten the peaks.)

 

[Love4sound]

Just tried the room and sub locations in the RoomSim and got almost the same response with a huge null around the critical area (Figure I) as measured.

- Place the Sub2 at the half of the side wall (1/3rd is also fine), got the following (Figure II) simulation with a slight dip in the 87-90Hz region.
- Increasing the crossover point to 100Hz gave a boost (~5dB) over that dip area (Figure III), optional though.
- Adding a 3ms delay to Sub2 gave the following graph with another 8dB boost (Figure IV), almost flat.
- Boost the gain below 200 or 250Hz to the house curve. Audyssey will also flatten all the peaks in the 45-70Hz region.
Try this out, probably this may help.


Figure I (BEFORE)
View attachment 61341

Figure II (Sub2 mid way of the sidewall)
View attachment 61342

Figure III (Crossover : 100Hz)
View attachment 61343

Figure IV (AFTER \ 3ms Sub2 delay, adds another 8dB boost. Audessey will flatten the peaks.)
View attachment 61344

Thanks a lot for such detailed explanation with a real example. Appreciate your efforts but you are little late to the party lol. I almost tried everything that can be done in the front right and rear left position of my room and got so fed up that I ended up selling the sub. It’s still with me and not yet shipped. If u see my previous posts in the thread where I have shared so many graphs,I had no issues getting a flat and smooth curve using mini dsp. Main issue was it sounded so bad and when I measured after integrating with mains no matter what delay values I set there where so many dips and phase issues. Also if u see single vs dual graphs there is no difference. In reality the performance is like front sub is performing and giving good bass but the rear sub is fighting with it and giving lot of muddy and boomy notes.

 

[cmsajith]

I think its because of the problem in the integration of the subs. Key is to align the subs with less delays and eq as there will be phase issues with too much manipulation which is required for the previous location. Also an impulse response would give a clear pic too. Another reason for the boomy and muddy sound is due to the seating location which is very close to the rear wall.