Active Speakers - Price vs Quality

[Audioman]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

For a given lower price bracket, 1 lakh and below market, a well designed passive with a well designed integrated amp will beat a similar priced active, and mind you that you still require to spend on a volume control for the active.

nosortf, Active speakers are not just speakers with inbuilt amplifiers. If you are referring to small or large models from the big brands, I wonder if you understand that the idea in those active designs is to have highly specialized purpose built amplifiers tailored to each specific driver to obtain highly optimized results. Not to miss the sophisticated active crossovers in these products that provide precise filters, time and phase alignment and all the necessary compensations for accurate alignment of the entire loudspeaker system. How can a passive loudspeaker system compete with all this?

After reading your opinions, I too am interested to know if you have done any kind of tests with the models you have listed. Please share

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

I would like to mention that I have heard many active speakers in the below 5 lakh range and find them to be quite bland.

If they are designed as studio monitors, they may well be supposed to be "bland," ie flat and uncoloured.

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

nosortf, Active speakers are not just speakers with inbuilt amplifiers. If you are referring to small or large models from the big brands, I wonder if you understand that the idea in those active designs is to have highly specialized purpose built amplifiers tailored to each specific driver to obtain highly optimized results. Not to miss the sophisticated active crossovers in these products that provide precise filters, time and phase alignment and all the necessary compensations for accurate alignment of the entire loudspeaker system. How can a passive loudspeaker system compete with all this?

After reading your opinions, I too am interested to know if you have done any kind of tests with the models you have listed. Please share

Hi

Audioman I understand this, therefore the comments.
But as mentioned earlier this is my viewpoint, if yours differ
I am glad, since audio opinions are meant to be democratic.
Personally I would use an active system if it is manufactured
without compromise like the ones stated earlier.

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

If they are designed as studio monitors, they may well be supposed to be "bland," ie flat and uncoloured.

Hi
Therefore they should be in studios and not in homes.
If you like them at home that is a personal call.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

This comes under the conversation as to whether people actually want flat, uncoloured music --- and the answer seems to be that, mostly, no they don't. We buy speakers not according to fidelity but according to the flavour we enjoy.

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Hi
Mostly correct, but I differ some. Uncolored does not necessitate bland. Speaker coloration are different from bland. Bland means un involving. Speakers can be flavored or uncolored and still be involving musically.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Sure... It was partly your definition I was wondering about.

I wonder if we have to to work a bit harder at listening to get involved by uncoloured sound? You've heard far more speakers than I have: what do you think of this idea?

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Hi

I appreciate your idea. However most people cannot adjust to accurate systems. I like accurate sounding systems too. I listen to full rangers, multiways
and actives too. For musical pleasure each system has its uses.
Cerebral listening it is actives, audiophile activities it is the multiways, and just TP full rangers.

 

[denom]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Hi nosortf,

It appears that you have a wealth of knowledge on the active speakers, so please share more on the speakers that you have heard, as it would be great to hear the views & thereby gain insight. Kindly do so as this forum is a great place to share knowledge. Am most keen to hear on the accurate speakers that you have heard, as those types of speakers are what I am looking for.

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Hi,

Denom from your Avatar, I presume accurate speakers are the last thing for you.
If you really want an active speaker, for Headbanger's Ball, you need fun speakers. Best active speaker, and not crazy expensive is Mackie SRM450.
Actually rock bands lots of times hear their mix on active PA speakers to determine what they want for their fans. People from pro audio studio speakers will never agree but it is true. The mix or mastering engineer will do his bit on his monitors as all engineers do, but the artists want to hear it in cars and on a
Mackie SRM450 or something like that. Take my input seriously, it costs you nothing to demo one.
If however you insist on actives from studio lineup, I have just heard the PMC IB2S XBD-A, it simply kills all others in recent memory. Very costly, super duper accurate and damn musical on an honest manner, no BS.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

This comes under the conversation as to whether people actually want flat, uncoloured music --- and the answer seems to be that, mostly, no they don't. We buy speakers not according to fidelity but according to the flavour we enjoy.

Win.

But I still think actives come onto their own in the 12 lakh upward market.

It is notable the member defines good actives based on price, not technical or measured performance even though the whole point of an active is applied science.

Says volumes, doesn't it?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Weeeellllll...

Have to admit that, albeit it a fairly small sample, the relatively-expensive active speakers I've heard have sounded much better than the modestly-priced ones I can afford to buy.

Of course, there are leagues and leagues, and, from my league's standpoint, a pair of Genelecs might cost more than I've ever spent on hifi in total!

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Win.



It is notable the member defines good actives based on price, not technical or measured performance even though the whole point of an active is applied science.

Says volumes, doesn't it?

Hi
With a due respect, the notable member says it keeping in mind what he has heard. Drawn conclusions from them, which say that a cheap tweeter is a cheap tweeter,no applied science can change it mechanical distortions, a bad enclosure is a mechanical loss, a cheap woofer has a terrible rise time and even worse settling time.
Electronics cannot solve mechanical distortions and losses, the faster we accept this the better for all of us.
Fancy phase & time domain talk is cool, but not when rest of the package cannot hold its own. I yet have to see one cheap active speaker have an enclosure resonance measurement published. You can hear the boxes vibrate.
I will turn the argument around. If it was possible to make great sounding actives cheap, the expensive ATC, PMC, ADAM, Genelec, Quested would have long shut down. Pro audio does not work on pure marketing, products have to deliver.
With all respects I do not believe in low cost miracles in audio can work in the shown enviroment

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Hi
With a due respect, the notable member says it keeping in mind what he has heard. Drawn conclusions from them, which say that a cheap tweeter is a cheap tweeter,no applied science can change it mechanical distortions, a bad enclosure is a mechanical loss, a cheap woofer has a terrible rise time and even worse settling time.
Electronics cannot solve mechanical distortions and losses, the faster we accept this the better for all of us.
Fancy phase & time domain talk is cool, but not when rest of the package cannot hold its own. I yet have to see one cheap active speaker have an enclosure resonance measurement published. You can hear the boxes vibrate.
I will turn the argument around. If it was possible to make great sounding actives cheap, the expensive ATC, PMC, ADAM, Genelec, Quested would have long shut down. Pro audio does not work on pure marketing, products have to deliver.
With all respects I do not believe in low cost miracles in audio can work in the shown enviroment

Perhaps you need to take a gander at what I quoted. You note a price of 12 lakh, if anything below it is referred to as "cheap" then there is not much to say.

A cheap tweeter is indeed cheap, it does not make it "bad". Please refer to measurements of it to understand what it does, not its price as you have implied. A brand is not magic, it is bound by the laws of science. PMC on the speaker does not allow it to break the laws of physics. Every speaker produces increasing amounts of distortion as it gets closer to it limits and driven beyond them.

Accuracy is a clear and defined goal, pandering to one's tastes (and ego) is not. Whatever is "accurate" is the better speaker when the goal is accuracy, when one talks about taste there is no standard of universal superiority. In other words your personal opinion of a speaker holds no value because tastes differ, and if it is accurate (when accuracy is desired) then you must provide measurements to prove it as once again your words hold no value.

Science is science, it does not matter what it costs. Only how it measures.

The reason expensive speakers sell is because the market pays the price. Professional installations pay it because they need it, audiophiles pay it to feed their insecurities. No one wants to sell something cheap if the market can be suckered into paying more. People are not in business to please you, people are in business to make a profit. That means margins. I am sure you understand.

 

[sonosphere]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Hi
...... Pro audio does not work on pure marketing, products have to deliver.
....

Wise words!:thumbsup:

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Perhaps you need to take a gander at what I quoted. You note a price of 12 lakh, if anything below it is referred to as "cheap" then there is not much to say.

A cheap tweeter is indeed cheap, it does not make it "bad". Please refer to measurements of it to understand what it does, not its price as you have implied. A brand is not magic, it is bound by the laws of science. PMC on the speaker does not allow it to break the laws of physics. Every speaker produces increasing amounts of distortion as it gets closer to it limits and driven beyond them.

Accuracy is a clear and defined goal, pandering to one's tastes (and ego) is not. Whatever is "accurate" is the better speaker when the goal is accuracy, when one talks about taste there is standard of universal superiority. In other words your personal opinion of a speaker holds no value because tastes differ, and if it is accurate (when accuracy is desired) then you must provide measurements to prove it as once again your words hold no value.

Science is science, it does not matter what it costs. Only how it measures.

The reason expensive speakers sell is because the market pays the price. Professional installations pay it because they need it, audiophiles pay it to feed their insecurities. No one wants to sell something cheap if the market can be suckered into paying more. People are not in business to please you, people are in business to make a profit. That means margins. I am sure you understand.

Hi,
My Post 17 clarifies a lot with regards to price.
I have rationalized why a certain parts component costs more than others
during my stint in manufacturing. Mechanical limits are quickly reached in cheaper parts.
You are right on about accuracy vs personal preferential egos.
BTW what do you mean by accuracy? Whose ego defines that one?
My idea of accuracy is different from yours, who is more correct?
Now we are down to personal preferences.
Measurements now will define this one? To do well in every aspect of active
loudspeaker measurement the prices will rise, and there simply isn't the market size for actives to reduce purchase costs versus a domestic amplifier and passive speaker companies that can measure well. As prices go up, high end manufacturers cannot compete as effectively now and active speakers come on their own. This is the finite truth of the business.
I mean no disrespect but really analyse this, I have for several years.
Finally people, especially on the forum are not fools that can suckered.

 

[Pandamaudio]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

nosortf, your posts show an uncanny resemblance to the style of my good friend Khushrau Jilla. Could you be him by any chance? hyeah:

 

[nosortf]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Mr.Pandam

I am amazed that you are actually the 3rd person asking me this.
Pleased that you are have friends in the audio business.
I will meet Mr.Jilla later for PMC IB2S-A
Sadly he quoted me rupees 20 lakhs for a 19 thousand pound speaker.
Hope we come to an understanding.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

Accuracy is exactly what it states. Output identical to signal input. Nothing more, nothing less. Accurate to the source is not debatable.

People want to be respected and feel superior, so they will buy expensive toys and put it out on display so the world knows what they are worth. Some do so knowing it is overpriced but it achieves their primary objective : elite status.

After all what is a brand? What is the point of it? Why buy a S class to drive you to work when a Accent will do it just as well? That engine is pretty useless in the city and you use more fuel. Why use an original rolex? Why not a knock off? It tells time, looks the same. The list goes on.

The point of my initial post was simply to underscore your beliefs about a certain price point being the the reference guide as to whether an active is a good choice or not. I have seen no rational reasons to defend that position, nor did I ask for any. Such a position cannot be defended rationally.

You must be a dealer for such active speakers trying to drum up business.

 

[kanwar]

Re: Dream Active Pro-Home Audio / HT Setup

the point of my initial post was simply to underscore your beliefs about a certain price point being the the reference guide as to whether an active is a good choice or not. I have seen no rational reasons to defend that position, nor did i ask for any. Such a position cannot be defended rationally.

You must be a dealer for such active speakers trying to drum up business.

+1.............
Still to see some measurement or some reference data other than the price tag superiority from this gentleman.