AirPort Express - the freeway to CD quality AM streaming

No Sandip. I already have the CXN streamer. Are you sure the AirPlay to the RPI streamer is lossless?
Sachin,
The guy above who did all this tests with airport express did the same test with shairport (what linux uses). It is lossless like the first gen AE.

Results Without Context

Here is a list of the results, straight up without any context.

On iOS
  1. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to AirPort Express 1st Gen - bit perfect at 44.1.
  2. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to Sonore Rendu (ShairPort) - bit perfect at 44.1.
  3. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - NOT bit perfect at 44.1.
  4. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - NOT bit perfect 44.1.
 
Sachin,
The guy above who did all this tests with airport express did the same test with shairport (what linux uses). It is lossless like the first gen AE.

Results Without Context

Here is a list of the results, straight up without any context.

On iOS
  1. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to AirPort Express 1st Gen - bit perfect at 44.1.
  2. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to Sonore Rendu (ShairPort) - bit perfect at 44.1.
  3. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - NOT bit perfect at 44.1.
  4. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - NOT bit perfect 44.1.
Thats great. So it seems a function of Airplay 1 rather than the streamer/AE. Is it?
 
Hi guys,

As must be obvious from my posts that I am hugely into streaming music. The Cambridge CXN 2, purchased over four years ago (and extensively reviewed by me in a thread) was a big step in this journey. It opened up many possibilities, the best of which were native play and internet radio.

Over the years our appetite for resolution has been rising and though Spotify and YT satisfy most of my listening needs, the urge to stream lossless remained. A couple of years ago I’d tried Tidal and Qobuz lossless, and knew it’s the way ahead. Alas Tidal, Qobuz and Amazon don’t seem to be interested in launching lossless in the big market that is India.

But meanwhile Apple took the initiative and launched lossless at Rs 99 pm. Now, I am quite invested in the Apple ecosystem even otherwise and this was a godsend. However, as we all know, Apple’s Airplay didn’t allow streaming lossless from handheld devices to your streamer/DAC. You needed a wire connection. An alternative was to play Apple Music from your MacBook and airplay to your streamer from the universal setting (and not the app). But I don’t want to either tether my phone/tablet to the DAC, nor do I want to go to a computer to play music on my stereo system. So, while lossless music was available for almost two years, I couldn’t benefit from it.

Cut to a fortnight ago, when a discussion on one of the threads reminded me something that I already knew - that there is one way still to stream lossless wirelessly from handheld Apple device to the stereo system. And it’s accidental, in the form of a product that is obsolete for almost a decade now!

The AirPort Express (AE) 1st gen, which was phased out in 2014 still uses AirPlay 1 over which you can stream lossless to it from any Apple device. I’d read it earlier, but never given it a serious thought. It helped checking with Manavendra (@mbhangui) who uses AE to confirm. So, I looked for a pre-owned AE 1st gen. and bought this from OLX:

View attachment 76955


It took me a while to get it set up (not straightforward, you need to do it through AirPort Utility from MacBook) and to work. I bought a mini toslink to toslink adapter for my existing optical cable to connect the AE to the CXN. Once all was set, I could start streaming lossless Apple Music from my phone/iPad wirelessly to my stereo system. And am happy with the result!

Yes, there’s of course an additional device (the AE) which could deteriorate the signal as compared to streaming (lossless) directly to CXN (which isn’t an option). However, as compared to even Spotify Connect (played natively on the CXN, without even the phone in the sound chain), AM lossless sounded far more satisfying and engaging. Not surprisingly, as I am listening to the full song without any compression. Over the last three days it’s been so enjoyable that I might not renew my Spotify subscription again.

Any of you using AE for AM, do add your experience.

(Note: I have not checked if the music played the way above is bit perfect. The CXN doesn’t show anything beyond ‘44.1 kHz PCM’. But guys have tested this out (checking for bit perfection upto 16 bit / 44.1 kHz with original files) and links to those articles have been posted in other threads. Of course higher res files will get compressed to CD quality as the AE can’t handle more than that. Manavendra is also our resident authority on this who could be explain the technicals in a way I can’t. I can hear the difference though, especially in the richness and bass. AE 1st gen, if you can get it, isn’t costly. So if you are an enthusiast, you can experiment with it, test and share the results).
Fortunately i have been using same AE from Day1 and i have found this as the most engaging transport.

There are more futuristic versions of AE but this is the best and most musical of all.

Airplay1 and Airplay2.

1 is bit perfect whatever you throw at it .

2 is not bit perfect.

Hi guys,

As must be obvious from my posts that I am hugely into streaming music. The Cambridge CXN 2, purchased over four years ago (and extensively reviewed by me in a thread) was a big step in this journey. It opened up many possibilities, the best of which were native play and internet radio.

Over the years our appetite for resolution has been rising and though Spotify and YT satisfy most of my listening needs, the urge to stream lossless remained. A couple of years ago I’d tried Tidal and Qobuz lossless, and knew it’s the way ahead. Alas Tidal, Qobuz and Amazon don’t seem to be interested in launching lossless in the big market that is India.

But meanwhile Apple took the initiative and launched lossless at Rs 99 pm. Now, I am quite invested in the Apple ecosystem even otherwise and this was a godsend. However, as we all know, Apple’s Airplay didn’t allow streaming lossless from handheld devices to your streamer/DAC. You needed a wire connection. An alternative was to play Apple Music from your MacBook and airplay to your streamer from the universal setting (and not the app). But I don’t want to either tether my phone/tablet to the DAC, nor do I want to go to a computer to play music on my stereo system. So, while lossless music was available for almost two years, I couldn’t benefit from it.

Cut to a fortnight ago, when a discussion on one of the threads reminded me something that I already knew - that there is one way still to stream lossless wirelessly from handheld Apple device to the stereo system. And it’s accidental, in the form of a product that is obsolete for almost a decade now!

The AirPort Express (AE) 1st gen, which was phased out in 2014 still uses AirPlay 1 over which you can stream lossless to it from any Apple device. I’d read it earlier, but never given it a serious thought. It helped checking with Manavendra (@mbhangui) who uses AE to confirm. So, I looked for a pre-owned AE 1st gen. and bought this from OLX:

View attachment 76955


It took me a while to get it set up (not straightforward, you need to do it through AirPort Utility from MacBook) and to work. I bought a mini toslink to toslink adapter for my existing optical cable to connect the AE to the CXN. Once all was set, I could start streaming lossless Apple Music from my phone/iPad wirelessly to my stereo system. And am happy with the result!

Yes, there’s of course an additional device (the AE) which could deteriorate the signal as compared to streaming (lossless) directly to CXN (which isn’t an option). However, as compared to even Spotify Connect (played natively on the CXN, without even the phone in the sound chain), AM lossless sounded far more satisfying and engaging. Not surprisingly, as I am listening to the full song without any compression. Over the last three days it’s been so enjoyable that I might not renew my Spotify subscription again.

Any of you using AE for AM, do add your experience.

(Note: I have not checked if the music played the way above is bit perfect. The CXN doesn’t show anything beyond ‘44.1 kHz PCM’. But guys have tested this out (checking for bit perfection upto 16 bit / 44.1 kHz with original files) and links to those articles have been posted in other threads. Of course higher res files will get compressed to CD quality as the AE can’t handle more than that. Manavendra is also our resident authority on this who could be explain the technicals in a way I can’t. I can hear the difference though, especially in the richness and bass. AE 1st gen, if you can get it, isn’t costly. So if you are an enthusiast, you can experiment with it, test and share the results).
The one on your photo, is the 1st generation N version.

Even older to it is the 1st generation G version which i have, and that has slightly lesser jitter than the N version.
 
How does one detect the G version? What to look for on the AE?
Mainly based on the year. You had mentioned 2014 so i m guessing N version

The G version is even older 2004.

Also i could see the plug has a wire instead. In the G there is simply plug to attach directly to the wall socket.

The thing with airplay is, it sounds different depending on which model of ipad / iPhone we use. It is still a mystery to me why this happens but i presume the sending ipad / iPhone does some changes to the music before despatching.

The sound signature of the different models gets reflected in airplay aswell.
 
Mainly based on the year. You had mentioned 2014 so i m guessing N version

The G version is even older 2004.

Also i could see the plug has a wire instead. In the G there is simply plug to attach directly to the wall socket.

True that. I have one G version and two non-G version of the first generation. The G version is better. The power supply was better IIRC.

The thing with airplay is, it sounds different depending on which model of ipad / iPhone we use. It is still a mystery to me why this happens but i presume the sending ipad / iPhone does some changes to the music before despatching.

The sound signature of the different models gets reflected in airplay aswell.
Could be the Apple Music software/version running the particular models. The same Apple music app on the macbooks, mac minis are total shit with two major problems

1. They play the song at a fixed sampling rate.
2. The app just doesn't remember the song and the position in the song if you quit the app. This is funny because itunes used to do that. For this reason, I'm now using a 3rd party app Cider to consume apple music. Also the app supports both airplay and chromecast at the same time

see this comparation https://cider.sh/why-cider
 
It is given here where you can read about the 2nd generation of AE. https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...to-cd-quality-am-streaming.92927/post-1034440
Mainly based on the year. You had mentioned 2014 so i m guessing N version

The G version is even older 2004.

Also i could see the plug has a wire instead. In the G there is simply plug to attach directly to the wall socket.

The thing with airplay is, it sounds different depending on which model of ipad / iPhone we use. It is still a mystery to me why this happens but i presume the sending ipad / iPhone does some changes to the music before despatching.

The sound signature of the different models gets reflected in airplay aswell.
Thanks @amit11. The G version is the A1084 model while the N version is A1264 (mine). The N model also uses 5GHz Wi-Fi which is less congested than 2.4Hz that the G model is limited to. Also, if the G model doesn’t come with the power cable, and needs to be plugged directly into the wall socket, i cannot use it as my optical cable is not long enough. Therefore I’d need an extension cord, which I hope won’t degrade the electric signal further.

Also, referring to the conversation with Arjun in this thread, I realised that modern DACs, (and as per its literature my CXN DAC too) have in-built jitter correction.

But I’d still check if I can get my hands on a A1084 model.
 
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Thanks @amit11. The G version is the A1084 model while the N version is A1264 (mine). The N model also uses 5GHz Wi-Fi which is less congested than 2.4Hz that the G model is limited to. Also, if the G model doesn’t come with the power cable, and needs to be plugged directly into the wall socket, i cannot use it as my optical cable is not long enough. Therefore I’d need an extension cord, which I hope won’t degrade the electric signal further.

Also, referring to the conversation with Arjun in this thread, I realised that modern DACs, (and as per its literature my CXN DAC too) have in-built jitter correction.

But I’d still check if I can get my hands on a A1084 model.
Regarding jitter correction, i know it is debatable but in my experience the mechanism is not jitter-immune.
The best of the DACs in the world are still not immune to the quality of transport. I.e. the quality of signal going inside the DAC in the form of spdif.

For example if we change the optical cable, the best DAC will still sound different. If we change the transport still it will sound different.

Jitter correction can help problem to some extent but cannot eliminate completely the side effects caused by it.
 
Hi guys, here‘s the interesting update on this AirPort Express journey. After suggestions from many of you, I asked the same resourceful OLX seller if he could get me a A1084 (G band older 1st gen.) AirPort Express model. And within a few hours he sent me pics of it. A couple of days later I had the A1084 with me.

1e453dde-b4c6-4cb9-953e-56f2f494e48d.jpega3e15f32-e9d9-42e6-aef5-8efde9b0485a.jpegab782f54-8b9d-4298-924d-59adc520c253.jpeg

But that’s when the journey turned into an ordeal! This model just refused to show up on the AirPort Utility to configure and add to my network. I did some googling and realised it wasn’t an easy problem to solve. And tha‘s when I did what one should do - approach a master. I ’phone s friended‘ Manavendra (@mbhangui). Just that it wasn’t a timed 1 min call, it ended up into a seemingly endless stream of phone calls and WhatsApp video calls over almost 24 hrs! With both of us unwilling to give up, trying various tricks and tips that we could get from the internet, or think of.

The problems one faces with the A1084 model are essentially because:
a) The latest Airport Utility doesn’t recognise it. So one needs to download the older Airport Utility file from the internet, and
b) Use a launcher for the above, and
c) Give some commands in the terminal to have Mac allow the launcher and the app to run.
But that’s not all. Once you get the older AirPort Utility (5.6.1) to launch in MacBook, you face the other problem, the AE doesn’t show up in it after you configure. We had to rack our brains to figure out that,
d) The AE has only G band, and for some reason, shows up for AirPlay only if you connected the device to the WiFi of the AE and not your main Wifi.

Well, all done, the A1084 is finally up and running. It sounds good, but I cannot yet confirm if it has lower jitter and therefore more musical sound than the newer first gen AE (A1264) that I have. I’d need to buy an optical splitter and A/B them for the same. But my ear says that this might be more musical, but it could only be psychoacoustic.

The one problem I am currently facing with the A1084 is it keeps dropping the stream/ buffering every now and then. More so with hi-Res Apple Music files. Probably because it’s own wifi is just the older G band and not so robust. I shall try and find out ways to remedy this. Any suggestions are welcome.
 
Get one of these. I will explain the problem why this could be happening below.

OPTION 1 (total cost 2450 or 1699 for 100 mbps)
Rs 2450 -
Rs 1699 -
The above give you 100 mbps ethernet connection. But even 100 mbps ethernet is rock stable compared to wifi. The gigabit ones are attrociously priced because they are exclusive to be used only with ipad/iphones. You get better option for gigabit for usb c to ethernet. So this is what you can do. Get one lightning to usb c adaptor as below

OPTION 2 (total cost 1398 for 1000 mbps)
Rs 199 -
Once you have the above adaptor you can connect any usbc to gigabit ethernet adaptors and they are cheaper because they can be used with android too

The ones from TP-Link are very good and I use the below with my macbook pro

Rs 1199 -
But the most important thing is why the device is not shown without connecting through the AE wireless network. The reason I suspect is that your current zte router is blocking multicast packet and bonjour discovery. See if someone can lend you a gigabit router from Netgear or linksys. I really don't trust the chinese zte router. Connect the new router through lan cable to your existing lan port on the zte router. Create a new wifi network on the netgear/linksys router. Connect your AE 1084 to the netgear/linksys router. I believe this will work without you requiring to tether your iphone/ipad to a lan cable. I personally use an old apple extreme base station and have created a wifi access point named MusicNet. It used to work without any hickups with my AE 1084 (which unfortunately has conked off because of our Country's new love for an attorcous voltage standard of 240 +- 10% volts). I have to find time to use a hacksaw to cut open the AE and repair the power supply. This is the one I have dedicated for my two remaining AE. The new one's from netgear are better than this.

1684933134595.png

The buffering problem

This problem is because the way music gets played in apple ecosystem. Spotify does it bit differently. When you use the spotify music and play some music, spotify pulls the music directly and plays it on the end device. This will be usually the dac connected to your laptop, desktop or a device like Raspberry PI. Spotify runs a daemon in the background and directly sends it to the end device. This allows you also see a synchronized view of the music playing on each and every device where you have logged in with your spotify account. So spotify requires just requires a bandwidth with a higher bitrate of the music file. Just 1x the bandwidth.

Apple does it very differenty. There is no daemon. The gigantic mammoth is the Apple Music App. So when you do airplay to any other device, the apple music first pulls the music from the apple device and then pushes the music to the end device. This is like a relay race and if the runner drops the baton, the race stutters. So the music pulling and the pushing is happening on the same narrow wireless G network. So you require 2x the bandwidth compared to that one using spotify for a music file with the same bitrate. So what you essentially need is a wider road. The AE in fact can use a wider road and that is the ethernet connection. But that road is through your zte router. But looks like zte router has put up a sign "No trespassing" on that road for AE and hence you are currently forced to use the narrow wireless G road direct connection to the AE. Borrow a good router from a reputed networking company (Netgear, Linksys, Nokia, etc) and try it. I think you should be able to see the AE if you do that. Maybe there are setting in the zte router that you will have to tweak to make your AE visible on the ethernet. I don't know that. If you see something in the settings like Broadcast, etc, just enable it.
 
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Your problem could also be due to bug in the zte router. One of the easiest thing to try is change the encryption of your router to something else. This problem happens only when going from wired to wireless. This is exactly what is happening to you. Also one more suggestion. If you see some setting with the name "IGMP snooping", turn it on. It could make your AE visible without needing to connect to the private SSID.

See this post.
 
The one problem I am currently facing with the A1084 is it keeps dropping the stream/ buffering every now and then. ............. Any suggestions are welcome.
What are you using to stream airplay? Is it ipad / iPhone / macbook?


In my case i was using ipad mini version 1. And in between stream was getting lost. The airplay icon used to disappear sometimes aswell and i had to restart router, or reconnect to wifi, or wait for 1 minute or two to come back to normal.

But since i used to like airplay i lived with it for some year's.

Then i came to know about raspberry pi with shairport airplay so i went via that route. But over the time even after upgrades of LPS, i started feeling missing something.

Then i purchased marantz streamer with airplay.
Over the time i still started missing something and read somewhere about airplay 2 not being bit perfect.

My ipad mini version 1 was getting old so i got new ipad air.

Then i thought of trying back my airport express which was lying in cupboard and voila... that stream breaking issue is no more. It is there once in a while but overall more stable than ipad mini 1.
 
What are you using to stream airplay? Is it ipad / iPhone / macbook?
iPhone or iPad. I have now decided to use the iPad exclusively. And connected only that to the AE’s network. I have stopped background app refresh on all but very critical apps on the iPad. As well as put the AE Wifi into low data mode (can select it from iPad/iPhone’s settings). That reduces the background data processing phone does when on the network.

With these steps, the stoppages (due to buffering) are far less, almost non-existent. Only rarely am I experiencing some stuttering at the first few seconds of a song (that is not on a currently playing playlist). Can live with that.

In my case i was using ipad mini version 1. And in between stream was getting lost. The airplay icon used to disappear sometimes aswell and i had to restart router, or reconnect to wifi, or wait for 1 minute or two to come back to normal.
Haven’t faced this issue till now.

Then i thought of trying back my airport express which was lying in cupboard and voila... that stream breaking issue is no more. It is there once in a while but overall more stable than ipad mini 1.
Good! My AirPlay 1 streaming happens from the iPad to CXN via the AE. I am liking the end result - lossless Apple Music (so reasonably priced at Rs 99 per month, with the Classical lossless app as bonus) through this route than even Spotify native play on CXN which was my go-to so far.

And I think this older AE model (A1084) is musical indeed. I am listening to more music (and don’t feel like changing the album) now than with the other AE model (A1264) before. There’s more foot tapping and head nodding now.
 
In my case, i connect my ipad to main wifi of router and it works fine. My AE does not show any different wifi to connect to.
And AE connects to router using wifi.

Today i will try, to switch off AEs wifi and provide LAN cable to it. Just to see if theres any difference in sound quality. (EMI/RF related)

I have experimented this in the past but don't exactly recall if SQ was different.

I also enabled / subscribed to apple music lossless but was not liking it somehow. But that was just round1, need to test more.
 
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