amplifier - speaker wattage compatibility

[gmitra]

I AM FROM KOLKATA.
I want to buy a Denon Integrated amplifier with Jamo speakrs. Unfortunately in kolkata these two are not available in a single shop. While Pro fx sells Denon amplifier, M/s Promises sells Jamo speakers. I have tried a lot to understand from the internet as to what should be the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker for a Pair of speakers of a particular power/wattage and found contradictory views. While one view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be MORE than the powe/wattage of the speakers, the other view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be LESS than the powe/wattage of the speakers. Hence, i am in great confusion, speacially because while the power/wattage of Denon amplifiers are indicated at 4 & 8 Ohms, the powe/wattage of Jamo speakers are indicated in 6 Ohms.
1.Can any body help me on the issue and give some suugestion on the issue.

In fact I want to buy Denon PMA 710 AE Integrated amplifier ( 85 watt/channel at 4 ohms and 50 watts/channel at 8 ohms) and any of the following Jamo Speakers-
1. Jamo C 605 (Floor Standing)
2. Jamo S 606 (Floor Standing)
3. Jamo S 426 (Floor Standing)
4. Jamo S 428 (Floor Standing)
5. Jamo s 418 (Floor Standing)

OR
1. Jamo C 603 (Book shelf)
2. Jamo S 602
3. Jamo S 603

Can any one suggest which of the above models of Jamo Speaker I can go for with Denon PMA 710 AE ?
G MITRA

 

[alpha1]

I AM FROM KOLKATA.
I want to buy a Denon Integrated amplifier with Jamo speakrs. Unfortunately in kolkata these two are not available in a single shop. While Pro fx sells Denon amplifier, M/s Promises sells Jamo speakers. I have tried a lot to understand from the internet as to what should be the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker for a Pair of speakers of a particular power/wattage and found contradictory views. While one view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be MORE than the powe/wattage of the speakers, the other view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be LESS than the powe/wattage of the speakers. Hence, i am in great confusion, speacially because while the power/wattage of Denon amplifiers are indicated at 4 & 8 Ohms, the powe/wattage of Jamo speakers are indicated in 6 Ohms.
1.Can any body help me on the issue and give some suugestion on the issue.

In fact I want to buy Denon PMA 710 AE Integrated amplifier ( 85 watt/channel at 4 ohms and 50 watts/channel at 8 ohms) and any of the following Jamo Speakers-
1. Jamo C 605 (Floor Standing)
2. Jamo S 606 (Floor Standing)
3. Jamo S 426 (Floor Standing)
4. Jamo S 428 (Floor Standing)
5. Jamo s 418 (Floor Standing)

OR
1. Jamo C 603 (Book shelf)
2. Jamo S 602
3. Jamo S 603

Can any one suggest which of the above models of Jamo Speaker I can go for with Denon PMA 710 AE ?
G MITRA

Amp should be higher wattage than printed on speakers (and lesser impedance).
This allows amp to deliver un-distorted signal.
Distortion sounds bad, as well as places great risk on tweeter (damage).

 

[corElement]

Stay away from each and every one of those Jamo models. Look at Wharfedale or Cambridge audio instead.

 

[avidyarthy]

Corelement theek bolechey (Cor has said right!)
He is the Jamo King in here .... so, his suggestion as far as Jamo is concerned, is to be taken dead seriously.

 

[koushik]

^^ So you are a Bengali too

@gmitra - Why don't you audition Polk Audio there in ProFX. Are you avoiding Polk for any reason? Those Profx guys are good and knowledgeable, ask them that you want to audition a setup of your budget. Polk goes well with Denon.

 

[007india]

I AM FROM KOLKATA.
I want to buy a Denon Integrated amplifier with Jamo speakrs. Unfortunately in kolkata these two are not available in a single shop. While Pro fx sells Denon amplifier, M/s Promises sells Jamo speakers. I have tried a lot to understand from the internet as to what should be the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker for a Pair of speakers of a particular power/wattage and found contradictory views. While one view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be MORE than the powe/wattage of the speakers, the other view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be LESS than the powe/wattage of the speakers. Hence, i am in great confusion, speacially because while the power/wattage of Denon amplifiers are indicated at 4 & 8 Ohms, the powe/wattage of Jamo speakers are indicated in 6 Ohms.
1.Can any body help me on the issue and give some suugestion on the issue.

In fact I want to buy Denon PMA 710 AE Integrated amplifier ( 85 watt/channel at 4 ohms and 50 watts/channel at 8 ohms) and any of the following Jamo Speakers-
1. Jamo C 605 (Floor Standing)
2. Jamo S 606 (Floor Standing)
3. Jamo S 426 (Floor Standing)
4. Jamo S 428 (Floor Standing)
5. Jamo s 418 (Floor Standing)

OR
1. Jamo C 603 (Book shelf)
2. Jamo S 602
3. Jamo S 603

Can any one suggest which of the above models of Jamo Speaker I can go for with Denon PMA 710 AE ?
G MITRA

My suggestion would be, forget jamo and audition wharfedale 9.6 or tannoy

 

[007india]

Amp should be higher wattage than printed on speakers (and lesser impedance).
This allows amp to deliver un-distorted signal.
Distortion sounds bad, as well as places great risk on tweeter (damage).

I don't understand why amp should be rated high than the speaker, generally viceversa as it will blow the speakers off.

a low watt amp+spk with high impedance(8ohm) will be perfect.

 

[corElement]

There is no hard rule that an amp has to be rated higher than speaker

This is how it goes

1. There are two types of mainstream speakers:
a> Magnet based
b> Electrostatic baed

2. Electrostatics have fixed impedance. Magnet based coil/cone drivers do not.

3. Impedance is the electrical characteristic of a speaker that restricts or impedes the flow of power. It is an Attemptto quantify the difficulty a receiver or amplifier will have in driving a speaker. The standard of measurement for resistance and impedance is Ohm. The symbol for Ohm is the Greek letter omega (?). One ohm is the resistance between two points of a conductor that requires one volt of potential to produce one ampere of current across its terminals. In the process, one watt of energy is converted into heat.

In lay man's terms, Impedance is a APPROXIMATE measure of the approximate minimal power each driver hungers for to produce sound.
So for example, your speaker may say it's 8ohms overall but the tweeter's individual specs have 6ohms written on it. Then what's the point of saying your speaker is 8ohms if the tweeter has 6ohms written on it. ?

Similarly a good 4ohm speaker might have 6ohm midrange driver and 4ohm tweeter but the speaker model has 4ohm written overall. Whats the point?

The answer : It's an dynamic approximate measure for magnet based speakers. It's not a fixed measure.

4. A good magnet based speaker thats 8ohms may demand even dip to 3 ohms depending on what's being played if it's truly efficient <- THIS is why you may need a higher wattage AMP for high end speakers, and just how high is found out by the point below.


5. On the rear of speakers youll find "short term" and "long term" written. The smaller value tells you what's it's average requirement, the bigger value will say how much it can demand for certain short bursts.

So for example take this

Notice short term 170
Long term 130

Mind you these values are approximate as well however they give you a an idea of just how much juice your amp needs to have ready at all times and this is also not measurable because manufacturers write whatever number they want, the best measure is our ears and physical SPL pressure.


Now let me throw you a curve ball

Speaker 1
4 Ohms
93 Sensitivity
130 watts

Speaker 2
8ohms
86 Sensitivity
300 Watts

Speaker 3
6ohms
89 Sensitivity
150 Watts

What do you think the results will be if you connected all of them to the same amp x 3

 

[KRC]

If you want the best performance, the amplifier o/p wattage should be higher or nearly equal to the speaker wattage. This will avoid distortion and will not harm ur speaker & amplifier. The other way around is not true. You can use Bi-amping for excellent performance. Also make sure to use speaker impedance that is supported by ur amplifier. Its mentioned at the back. If u use higher impedance speaker than the supporting amp, it will damage ur amplifier slowly.

Dont go for JAMO. Go for paradigm, Klipsch, quad, mirrage, polk with Onkyo/Denon..if u have the budget.

 

[srisaikat]

I AM FROM KOLKATA.
I want to buy a Denon Integrated amplifier with Jamo speakrs. Unfortunately in kolkata these two are not available in a single shop. While Pro fx sells Denon amplifier, M/s Promises sells Jamo speakers. I have tried a lot to understand from the internet as to what should be the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker for a Pair of speakers of a particular power/wattage and found contradictory views. While one view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be MORE than the powe/wattage of the speakers, the other view says that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be LESS than the powe/wattage of the speakers. Hence, i am in great confusion, speacially because while the power/wattage of Denon amplifiers are indicated at 4 & 8 Ohms, the powe/wattage of Jamo speakers are indicated in 6 Ohms.
1.Can any body help me on the issue and give some suugestion on the issue.

In fact I want to buy Denon PMA 710 AE Integrated amplifier ( 85 watt/channel at 4 ohms and 50 watts/channel at 8 ohms) and any of the following Jamo Speakers-
1. Jamo C 605 (Floor Standing)
2. Jamo S 606 (Floor Standing)
3. Jamo S 426 (Floor Standing)
4. Jamo S 428 (Floor Standing)
5. Jamo s 418 (Floor Standing)

OR
1. Jamo C 603 (Book shelf)
2. Jamo S 602
3. Jamo S 603

Can any one suggest which of the above models of Jamo Speaker I can go for with Denon PMA 710 AE ?
G MITRA

Hi,
It will be real worthy if you audition Denon with Polk which is available in Pro-Fx. Believe me, you will never repent with this decision, they are made for each other. Just have a trial.

 

[corElement]

In my honest opinion Neither the Jamo models listed nor the Denon Amp is really all that great, you should do more auditions at different stores for different brands.

 

[alpha1]

I don't understand why amp should be rated high than the speaker, generally viceversa as it will blow the speakers off.

a low watt amp+spk with high impedance(8ohm) will be perfect.

Amp rating means the power it can deliver without distorting.
The higher the power rating of amp - the more current it can deliver to speakers.

Distortion introduces harmonics, and increase the power content of higher frequencies.
Tweeters are designed to process clean signals which have very less power in the higher frequencies - check out any well mastered recording's rms ppower vs frequency graph.
Hence tweeters have low heat dissipation capacities.

When higher harmonic content signals (which has higher power content than usual) comes to tweeter - heat dissipation cannot occur efficiently, and result? tweeter coil melts.

Woofers have better heat dissipation capacities.
This can happen at low sound volume too (since the amp starts distorting at low power only).

***
What you say about high amp blowing speaker off - results when ppl are high/under influence and try to get 140dB of volume from speakers that are designed for 90-100dB.

 

[haisaikat]

I remember carrying our speakers post purchase to profx for audition with denons and tney allowed this. I agree that cambridge audio amps for music will be best in kol. Try auditioning in sks traders.

 

[gmitra]

So they have suceeded in multiplying the confusion in GP.
Can any body please tell me whether the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be MORE than the powe/wattage of the speakers OR the that the Integrated Amplifier's power/wattage per speaker should be LESS than the powe/wattage of the speaker, to be more precise, around 50-80% of speakers' wattage ?

 

[alpha1]

Speaker wattage = current that speakers can withstand without melting the voice coils.
Amplifier wattage = current that amplifier can deliver without distorting the signal.

Ideally both should be equal.
Otherwise:
Case 1 - speaker capable of more watts, amp capable of less watts. No issues at low wattage, but when you start turning up the amp volume, the amp delivers distorted signal - and this can mess up the tweeters.

Case 2 - speaker capable of less watts, amp capable of more watts. No issues at low volume, but when you turn up the amp volume, the power delivered to speakers is more than what they can withstand.

So what exactly needs to be done?
Check the speaker sensitivity.
Fix the maximum dB you want out from speakers.
Back calculate the watts required from the amp.


I have Quad 11L2 - sensitivity 87 dB per meter.
I want 90 dB at 4 m. (very loud)

Which means 102 dB at 1m. (Sound attenuation with distance)
(Damping of sound level with distance - decibel dB damping calculation calculator distance versus sound reduction drop-off free field loss - decrease drop fall in sound over distance versus dB sound at different distances microphone calculator distanc)

To raise from 87 to 102 dB = 15 dB


To raise by 3dB we require double power.
So for 15dB we require 32 watts (= 2 ^ 5, two raised to the power of 5, or multiply two: five times).

So it is now done that at least 32 watts per channel is required.
But keep in mind that there can be spikes in music which would be +3 to +6 dB higher than our calculation = 2 to 4 times more power required.

Therefore we would require at least 64 watts per channel or 128 watts to be double safe.
So I got Norge 1000 (I could've also been happy with Norge 2060)

Now checking the Quad's specs it says that it can take till 150w (with 85 W continuous power). So it is safe. (I am going to use 32 W continuous with 128 W max)


Suppose I use a 1000 W amp - for getting 90 dB at 4 m, the amp will output required 32 watts ONLY. However, if I get displeased (or drunk/drugged) and want even higher sound - I will turn the knob, making the amp output say 1000 W, the current at this wattage will heat up the speakers and destroy them.


Now consider, I bought a 10 W amp.
But I require 90 dB at 4m, so I again turn up the amp.
Past 10W, the amp churns out distorted tone. At 32W it will be very close to white noise + original signal = distortion.
Thus, you will get 90 dB, but it will mess up your tweeters.



I hope this post makes it clear that both are important.
However, if you are a techno-mathematics averse - please go ahead with higher watt amp. As long as you don't required ear deafening volumes, there would be no issues.

 

[ShutterX]

from what i can understand from this thread, Amps have a continuous rms rating as well as a dynamic power rating... the dynamic power is basically peak power?

yes, iam pretty noob in this dept.

 

[alpha1]

Yes its like a human being.
A human being can perhaps carry 20-30 kg load, without getting tired.

But when situation demands, the same person can lift 100 kg. Only problem is that he cannot sustain the load for extended period of time.

 

[ShutterX]

Yes its like a human being.
A human being can perhaps carry 20-30 kg load, without getting tired.

But when situation demands, the same person can lift 100 kg. Only problem is that he cannot sustain the load for extended period of time.

nicely put. i wonder how we can squeeze impedance into this example. hyeah:

 

[gmitra]

Can I use Marantz PM 6004 (45/60 W at 8/4Ohms) with Zensor 5 Speakers for which amplifier power requirement is 30-150W ( normal impedence 6 Ohm) ?
Will it be under powered ?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Don't worry too much about it. They will work together fine.