amplifier - speaker wattage compatibility

[asliarun]

The standard thumb rule is for the the amp to have 1.5 times the power rating of the speaker.

The impedance rating can be sometimes misleading too as s impedance fluctuates wildly across the audio spectrum. Just look at the impedance curve in a stereophile review for a speaker. Some companies stretch the definition of nominal.

 

[Hiten]

Not a technical person, but Speakers wattage is average capability of speaker to handle particular wattage and amp power wattage is output power the amp is capable of. With low power amp one would be tempted to raise volume and amp would clip which will damage speakers instantly. Also large power to small wattage speaker for too long will also damage speakers. So 'best bet' is to have a capable amplifier driving proper wattage speakers. for which general rule is 1.5 times power.
Regards

 

[arj]

it very well depends on the quality of the amplifier. The main reason for blown speakers is of running it with an amp which is clipping as it is struggling to give it the power required and hence distorts the output power ( which is supposed to be AC) and also has a DC component which overheats the tweeter coils and burns it.

I would suggest have at least 2X times min power required by the speaker as that will give you enough dynamic head room. typically speaking for most speakers 50Wx8 ohms is more than enough. just to be safe please do find out if any frequency curve for the speaker is available and if the impedance does drop below 4Ohms need to make sure the am is capable of giving output at 4 ohms (should not be a problem with MOST amps/speakers)

 

[Audio_Freek]

So Can someone let me clear on Class A amps which has very less Wattage in conf (atleast 1/3 of the Stereo amplifiers) and drives crazy the monster speakers?

And when some one moves up in lader on BF's, everyone suggesting for Class A amps.

So Amp watts should be more than the Speaker watts rule,does it work-out here

Am very convinced with a statement " Make sure both speakers and Amp are matching same watts or nearby (10-10 watts diff max)


As overpower Amp would spoil Speakers with High watts supplied and Low powered Amp also spoil the speaker due to distortion.
hyeah:

 

[Audio_Freek]

So Can someone let me clear on Class A amps which has very less Wattage in conf (atleast 1/3 of the Stereo amplifiers) and drives crazy the monster speakers?

 

[Hiten]

Most of class A amp requires efficient speakers so that one doesn't need to turn up the volume of the amp too much and clip the amplifier.
regards

 

[sam_007]

M still bit confused on this, as some member has suggested the wattage of spk and amp should be same while some emphasized on wattage of amp should be 1.5 times more than spk amp.

Let for a spk with below specs:
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m): 90dB
Nominal impedance: 8 Ohms
Recommended amplifier power: 25 - 120W

So for the above spk, any amp with output power between 25W to 120W (imp - 8 ohms)
will be paired perfectly or we need more wattage amp?

 

[Audio_Freek]

Most of class A amp requires efficient speakers so that one doesn't need to turn up the volume of the amp too much and clip the amplifier.
regards

Oh great, if that's true then 50W output Class A amp are getting matched to 200 W speakers,then it means that the amp would feed only 50 W at max(Full volume) and still confused with what would 1/4 OR 1/2 volume from the Amp could feed to the speakers?

Also how does little powered monster would fill the room with sound?

 

[Audio_Freek]

M still bit confused on this, as some member has suggested the wattage of spk and amp should be same while some emphasized on wattage of amp should be 1.5 times more than spk amp.

Let for a spk with below specs:
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m): 90dB
Nominal impedance: 8 Ohms
Recommended amplifier power: 25 - 120W

So for the above spk, any amp with output power between 25W to 120W (imp - 8 ohms)
will be paired perfectly or we need more wattage amp?

Sam,
What is my understanding if we use 150 W@8 ohms to the speaker you have mention, the speakers will be driven to its max,But we should not turn-up the volume to full, if its done then Tweeter would be the first prey for the watts supplied.

Point 1: If you use over powered AMP's then make sure dont turn the volume and at 80% volume the speaker would sound well but not more.

If we use equally powered amp, then can turn the full volume nothing happens to the speakers but that would sound worse.

So rule of thumb:

Over powered amp:Can feel the maximum of sound from speaker ,but turning the volume at full can cause the speaker blow.

Underpowered amp: You can enjoy the music, and cant bang the speaker as the amp will not be sufficient to feed speaker,also volume at full will not damage the speaker but would be too noisy

Equally powered: Best to deal, No worries for blowing of tweeter and can enjoy the above average efficiency sounds from speakers.


Guru's pleas correct if my understanding is wrong

 

[corElement]

Most of class A amp requires efficient speakers so that one doesn't need to turn up the volume of the amp too much and clip the amplifier.
regards

Not necessarily Hiten, There are many different variations of class A in both tube and solid state. For example you have 3 watt class A SET which are able to drive a 90db efficiency speaker with ease but it fails to drive an 85db sensitivity speaker unless pushed harder, but at same time you can have 20 watt class A SET which can drive an 85db sensitivity speaker effortlessly. Other things come into the picture at that point instead of ability to drive, such as dampening.

@Audio Freek, make a new thread with a better described query, query is a bit lost in this thread. Not able to understand. What exactly are you looking for?

 

[arj]

Sam,
What is my understanding if we use 150 W@8 ohms to the speaker you have mention, the speakers will be driven to its max,But we should not turn-up the volume to full, if its done then Tweeter would be the first prey for the watts supplied.

Point 1: If you use over powered AMP's then make sure dont turn the volume and at 80% volume the speaker would sound well but not more.

If we use equally powered amp, then can turn the full volume nothing happens to the speakers but that would sound worse.

So rule of thumb:

Over powered amp:Can feel the maximum of sound from speaker ,but turning the volume at full can cause the speaker blow.

Underpowered amp: You can enjoy the music, and cant bang the speaker as the amp will not be sufficient to feed speaker,also volume at full will not damage the speaker but would be too noisy

Equally powered: Best to deal, No worries for blowing of tweeter and can enjoy the above average efficiency sounds from speakers.


Guru's pleas correct if my understanding is wrong

Not exactly true.pls read my earlier post...overpowering will very rarely blow a regular speaker in a regular room..you will blow up your eardrum first ! It is underpowered amps which do the damage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Audio_Freek]

@Audio Freek, make a new thread with a better described query, query is a bit lost in this thread. Not able to understand. What exactly are you looking for?

Cor,


I just came across a thread for Usher BE-718 Amp selection. where a person mentioned "Emotiva-XPA-1 (MONO block 500W) would be the best to drive Usher BE 718 speakers and other said Leben 300xs(15 W) and other suggested Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblock(150W)

Where as Usher V601 is 200W@ 8 Ohms

So why ppl have such a diff view of Amp and speaker matching one say 15 W other 150 W and some one 500W amp to match 200W speaker?

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/12193-amp-718-ayon-cd-1s-7.html

this is the link am talking about

In above mentioned thread they are taking about overpowered, under powered and some what exactly matching power combinations

MY QUERY IN SPECIFIC, DOES the watts play the role in matching the speakers or something else?,if something then wats that?

 

[Hiten]

Not exactly true.pls read my earlier post...overpowering will very rarely blow a regular speaker in a regular room..you will blow up your eardrum first ! It is underpowered amps which do the damage.

+1 arj.
Regards

 

[moktan]

Cor,


I just came across a thread for Usher BE-718 Amp selection. where a person mentioned "Emotiva-XPA-1 (MONO block 500W) would be the best to drive Usher BE 718 speakers and other said Leben 300xs(15 W) and other suggested Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblock(150W)

Where as Usher V601 is 200W@ 8 Ohms

So why ppl have such a diff view of Amp and speaker matching one say 15 W other 150 W and some one 500W amp to match 200W speaker?

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/12193-amp-718-ayon-cd-1s-7.html

this is the link am talking about

In above mentioned thread they are taking about overpowered, under powered and some what exactly matching power combinations

MY QUERY IN SPECIFIC, DOES the watts play the role in matching the speakers or something else?,if something then wats that?

...i remember reading a discussion on audiogon about 'high current or high wattage amps'...and a gentleman had posted this information...
"I won't embarass myself in talking tech but I just solved a major problem involving wattage. I own dunlavy V's and had poor sound with 250 plus Wolcott amps. I tried to remedy this with VTL 750's and the sound was the same. I called Dunlavy and they told me to try the Aloia amps which they were going to use as their reference. At 30 watts a channel I was super skeptical. I was awestruck when I heard the control of this speaker. Aloia told me that the inductive power supply is the key to providing clean current. Current is what moves the voice coils of the speaker. "

 

[Hiten]

Sorry for offtopic gmitra.

Not necessarily Hiten, There are many different variations of class A in both tube and solid state. For example you have 3 watt class A SET which are able to drive a 90db efficiency speaker with ease but it fails to drive an 85db sensitivity speaker unless pushed harder, but at same time you can have 20 watt class A SET which can drive an 85db sensitivity speaker effortlessly. Other things come into the picture at that point instead of ability to drive, such as dampening.
?

Yes bro, but point is it will depend on music and how loud you hear. It is a fact that some music will probably have pretty good amount of high dynamic range plus instantaneous peaks where it may not harm the speakers but may distort. And if this range is sustained it may damage also. So it would be a good approach to pair 20Watts amp with 90db efficiency speakers. There was some reference which said at normal listening level high dynamic range music on average common speakers available in the market would require at least 80W/100W amp. Now this is not a rule and one may not notice or dislike the distortion but its good to have a little headroom. I think we are confusing between what is workable* and proper approach and precaution needed for a setup.
* If subjectively one likes the sound of low power amp driving high efficiency speakers and doesn't need high volumes it is perfectly OK.

I think each home should have a multiple systems like (1) Analogue source > SET amp > Full range Speakers (2) Digital Source > Class A Amp > Two way speakers (3) Digital Source > powerful Class A/B amp > Two way speakers and subwoofer. Only problem is money and space
Regards

 

[arj]

Most of class A amp requires efficient speakers so that one doesn't need to turn up the volume of the amp too much and clip the amplifier.
regards

hiten, you could look at this in another way. most class As are lo powered since it is very difficult to implement a high powered one right (unlike Older Krells/Pass labs/plinius etc). hence it is easier to match a more sensitive speaker with it.

But Class A works on a simple principle..take the entire power it can from the grid and anything it does not use, output it as heat. but while inefficient it has the capability to instantly give any dynamic power to the speaker unlike a class AB which has to draw it from the grid..hence the speed and low distortion. due to this quick current supply capability the power sometimes seems higher than what it looks. eg my old sugden A21 at 25w was easily more powerful than other equivalent 50W amps !

 

[arj]

Cor,


I just came across a thread for Usher BE-718 Amp selection. where a person mentioned "Emotiva-XPA-1 (MONO block 500W) would be the best to drive Usher BE 718 speakers and other said Leben 300xs(15 W) and other suggested Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblock(150W)

Where as Usher V601 is 200W@ 8 Ohms

So why ppl have such a diff view of Amp and speaker matching one say 15 W other 150 W and some one 500W amp to match 200W speaker?

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/12193-amp-718-ayon-cd-1s-7.html

this is the link am talking about

In above mentioned thread they are taking about overpowered, under powered and some what exactly matching power combinations

MY QUERY IN SPECIFIC, DOES the watts play the role in matching the speakers or something else?,if something then wats that?

specs are pretty misleading :0
Look at it very simply, every speaker has a impedance chart which shows how the impedance of the speaker changes as and when the frequency changes,,hence it presents a different load.

Similarly amps also have a different power output for the load.

Any music signal has , at any instant, several frequencies (including harmonics) being converted to sound.hence the amp sees a different load every instant and needs to supply " different power"
The power rating you see for an amp is always for a single impedance load while in reality it sees several.

Now each amp and speaker is different and hence their combination works different...and that may give an idea of the complexity of this..

Hence the ratings we see are insufficient to take any decision..unfortunately the industry does not give enough parameters to make this objective.

In case you do have to decide, power output , nominal impedance, minimum impedance and Sensitivity of the speakers can help decide on an amp at a high level. which of the several amps which fall into the above will behave well with the speaker only the person(s) hearing it can decide..

 

[Hiten]

Agree with you arj. That's why I said most of the class a amp. Since implementation would take some more effort. Recent F5 Turbo is good example for need of power in class A amps. As for quick current supply I do remember nad amps (3020s) which sounded like more powerful.
Regards

 

[corElement]

Cor,


I just came across a thread for Usher BE-718 Amp selection. where a person mentioned "Emotiva-XPA-1 (MONO block 500W) would be the best to drive Usher BE 718 speakers and other said Leben 300xs(15 W) and other suggested Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblock(150W)

Where as Usher V601 is 200W@ 8 Ohms

So why ppl have such a diff view of Amp and speaker matching one say 15 W other 150 W and some one 500W amp to match 200W speaker?

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/12193-amp-718-ayon-cd-1s-7.html

this is the link am talking about

In above mentioned thread they are taking about overpowered, under powered and some what exactly matching power combinations

MY QUERY IN SPECIFIC, DOES the watts play the role in matching the speakers or something else?,if something then wats that?

"one say 15 W other 150 W and some one 500W amp to match 200W speaker?"

The 15watt in question is a tube amp.

Tube amp watts work somewhat different from solid state. Let is consider the lyrita 2a3 SET amp for example.. paired to my speaker which is 90 sensitivity.

Tube amplifiers are HIGH voltage amplifiers. The 1st watt in SET class A tube topologies are the most important. When a tube in Class A SET mode fires up, the 1st watt is usually around 50db spl give or take 20db (60db in the lyrita 2a3's case) So suppose the amp is outputting 60db. After the first watt everything changes. the 2nd watt is half the power output of the 1st but draws twice the mount of power than the 1st watt.

So 1st watt if it's 60db 2nd watt will be 30 and third will be 15. Meaning a total of 105db. My speakers are 90db sensitivity, so basically it's base criteria of 90db is met at the 2nd watt which is 60+30db= 90db. As a result the 3rd watt is headroom for the amp to be further pushed. HOWEVER if my speaker were 86db sensitivity like an usher be718, then the amp would have to be played at 100% volume, leaving no headroom for impedance ups and downs and eventually speaker damage.

This was tube logic in class A SET, now lets go to solid state. In solid state the opening 1st watts value is much much much lower (Unless we're talking first watt amps like nelson pass f5 and what not). So for example if the opening watt is something around 30db, the 2nd watt would be 15 and similar divided and divided and further divided, the smaller the number gets the more prone to distortion the watts become...depending on the MODE and topology of the amp. What this means is that watts is just a unit of power, the value of the unit changes amp to amp.

Arj's reply is aptly put. Watt is one of several parameters which gives you a relative idea of what kind of equipment they should be paired to.

But there is also another thing you have to know, more power does not mean better sound.

A base criteria for good sound is transparency, the ability to reveal everything on a track. Even if a high wattage amp can drive a speaker, if the amp or speaker lacks transparency, then what's the point?

Which is why one should always audition as many systems as they can to understand sound and do research like you are.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

specs are pretty misleading :0

And marketing people like big numbers, compounded by the fact that ignorant salesmen help to persuade the non-informed buyer that the number of watts specified for a speaker is seriously a measure of how loud it will go