I will prefer to use a balance control for correcct imaging of the stereo. I also feel that balance control without a Mono/Stereo switch is not of much use. You will first need to setup the Balance control with a mono signal with exact centering of the image and then toggle the switch to stereo. That way you will get the correct ambience and width of the sound stage as the recording intended.
Are Balance & Gain Controls Necessary in Pre-Amps???
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Thad,
I love the very sight of LED bar graphs jumping and illuminated VU meter needles dancing in ecstasy in dark room.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
You are not the only one. For some reason, a few months back, I posted this Google Images search, and several people had orgasms. :yahoo:
You are probably right, but a centre test tone could be used instead of music, and would also be less distracting.
You are probably right, but a centre test tone could be used instead of music, and would also be less distracting.
you got it. Just wanted to play with words and see if I can communicate well enough.
@Thad: You know my setup don't qualify as "resolving". Neither I qualify as one with "discerning ear". It was just banter. Sorry if it comes as at expense of others.
I think balance/tone control/equalizers are valuable to get the setup right. In any case, room is the biggest equalizer. We hear more of the room rather than speakers.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Sheesh, even I seem to loose my sense of humour on these things sometimes!
I'll go and watch a vu meter for an hour...
I'll go and watch a vu meter for an hour...
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
Sheesh, even I seem to loose my sense of humour on these things sometimes!
I'll go and watch a vu meter for an hour...
I love Analog VU meters:clapping:! My amp, and 4 of my cassette decks have them.
They're enormous fun to watch, that I even bought a set for my car!
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Thats odd .. All VU meters I have seen in real life have been a warm pale yellow lighting. Curiously all the VU meters in your link have blue lighting.
I prefer the pale yellow to blue anyday.
G0bble
Hahahaha....
I also love analog VU meters. So in my highly unscientific and totally biased opinion, the most beautiful VU meters are those I have seen on
1) Accuphase integrateds at third place because the backlight is plain amber
2) Macintosh amps at second place as they have a nice, moodlighting blue backlight
3) Cadence Canasya is numero uno because the VU also tells you the state of the tubes (including when it is time to replace it - quite a daunting task given that each of the 8 tubes cost a cool ~21K INR).
And yes, it would be nice to have balance control. And tone control too. But I'm not sure why one needs gain control.
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greenhorn
Well-Known Member
[showoff] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I54qa389vw [/showoff]
My favourites are the grand integras and other amps with giant VU Meters
Onkyo M-508 on thevintageknob.org
Sony TA-N77ES on thevintageknob.org
Technics SE-A5000 on thevintageknob.org
My favourites are the grand integras and other amps with giant VU Meters
Onkyo M-508 on thevintageknob.org
Sony TA-N77ES on thevintageknob.org
Technics SE-A5000 on thevintageknob.org
reubensm
Well-Known Member
have balance controls on my preamps, have never moved it past the center lock, however feel its useful cause one would never know when it would be needed
gain control is a must in my opinion
gain control is a must in my opinion
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I have admitted by desire to watch the vu meters on the SPL Phonitor Headphone amp. Now there is a new model
Those who do not like even a simple balance control will take one look at this and say "DO NOT WANT!" but... I do
Those who do not like even a simple balance control will take one look at this and say "DO NOT WANT!" but... I do
The best gift for Thad I can imagine now is a pair of portable tabletop VU meters connected to a circuit that randomly moves the needles to some imaginary level of microwave radiation in the atmosphere , that stray photon or corresponding to solar flares and sunspot activity.
Gobble
Gobble
Lets summarise,
We need balance controls for setting up sweet spot and also to check calibration of both channels.
We need gain control in order to match the sensitivity of input levels with that of outputs.
We need VU meters as best sighting pleasure whenever we look at the preamp.
We need balance controls for setting up sweet spot and also to check calibration of both channels.
We need gain control in order to match the sensitivity of input levels with that of outputs.
We need VU meters as best sighting pleasure whenever we look at the preamp.
Not sure, each music/song is recorded differently and the image can shift in left & right balance and needs to be adjusted for centering in mono signal and then switched to stereo.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Then you are adjusting for the recording rather than the speaker/room/ear interaction.
Probably most of us, in practice, take something like a solo voice that we think should be centred, and adjust accordingly. I guess that is what I have done: must try out a test tone!
Tone/EQ I unashamedly adjust not just to my ears but also how I want to hear the music --- which varies track to track, let alone album to album. Aiming for flat has gone out of the window with my high-frequency hearing, so I might just as well aim for pleasure!
Probably most of us, in practice, take something like a solo voice that we think should be centred, and adjust accordingly. I guess that is what I have done: must try out a test tone!
Tone/EQ I unashamedly adjust not just to my ears but also how I want to hear the music --- which varies track to track, let alone album to album. Aiming for flat has gone out of the window with my high-frequency hearing, so I might just as well aim for pleasure!
@ Thad -
Take this hypothetical case -
Left channel recorded at -3dB level and Right channel recorded at 0dB level. By the test tone approach you will not get the image centered as the left channel is lower in level by -3dB.
But by my method when you switch to Mono you still will not get the centre image. Then you adjust the balance control so that the Right channel level is also at -3dB vis-a-vis the left channel. Once you get this centre image you then toggel the switch to stereo then your ambience and spacing will be correct.
Take this hypothetical case -
Left channel recorded at -3dB level and Right channel recorded at 0dB level. By the test tone approach you will not get the image centered as the left channel is lower in level by -3dB.
But by my method when you switch to Mono you still will not get the centre image. Then you adjust the balance control so that the Right channel level is also at -3dB vis-a-vis the left channel. Once you get this centre image you then toggel the switch to stereo then your ambience and spacing will be correct.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Yes, I see your point. What I'm not sure about is whether one should "correct" the recording or not. But I am not against having the freedom to do so
Me too, depends upon individual taste. When left or right channel dominates then it seems more like a monotone and not stereo. In such case i will go ahead and adjust not otherwise. Most modern recording would not have this issue, but some old stereo recordings from Bollywood of mid 70s and 80s had these issue where a use of balance control is required to get the stereo imaging correct.
IndianEars
Well-Known Member
An often un-realised use of the Mono switch.... when playing old, and warped LPs.
The Mono switch cancells almost ALL the Rumble !
(Sure it also cancels all the stereo ! but is ideal for select old Mono LPs ).
The Mono switch cancells almost ALL the Rumble !
(Sure it also cancels all the stereo ! but is ideal for select old Mono LPs ).
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