The ZA3 in monoblock config sound great. Exceptionally wide soundstage with stellar dynamics and a vivid sound. To channel match however, you have to turn both volume knobs to max as there is no fixed gain.
Are KEF LS50 Meta speakers power hungry and inefficient ?
- Thread starter Amarendra
- Start date
sandeepmohan
Well-Known Member
More than type or class of amplifier, you need one that can dip easily into the sub 3.5ohm impedance range. Not many can do that. Its also 85db so will need a solid current to wake it up. 50 watt Class AB is fine. I think the best path to a good sounding loudspeaker. The power needs to be clean and stable is all.
reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
Please don't pair chinese class D with these speakers. Honestly these amps suck bad and are suitable only for easy loads and cheap speakers.
Those numbers are only on paper. The tonality starts changing the moment you crank them a bit. This is my experience with the fosi. If you really want class D well done, look at the NADs especially the purify based ones.
Those numbers are only on paper. The tonality starts changing the moment you crank them a bit. This is my experience with the fosi. If you really want class D well done, look at the NADs especially the purify based ones.
Have you tried the Fosi mono ? It measures well -as per Amir on ASR.
sudhirdamerla
Member
I have the original KEF LS50. Slight variation in impedance but about the same speaker as meta. These speakers require an amp which can double its power at 4 ohms. If not the amp will not provide the output it requires at lower frequencies and you will find the speakers sound rather thin sounding. I was not impressed with the LS50s compared to the PMC TB2i which were my favourites back then playing with a Pioneer 676. Things changed when hooked up to a Leema acoustics pulse . The LS50s blew me away completely. Bass is dead tight and accurate. Sounds almost as good as my ARs. The speakers are extremely amp depended and more power you throw at them the better they perform. Im not talking about watts but an amp with a high current output. The Rogue Audio has been highly recommended for these. I now have damped the ports so the bass rolls of quicker(which also alters impedance very slightly) and have a KC62. Also if you ever add a sub to these run high level interconnection as the wild impedance swing affects the phase angle and a sub on line level will never blend in and will alway sound "subwoofery" (for the lack of a better word). If you are ever in Bangalore, do drop in for a listen.
reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
Even v3 measures well but that doesn't mean a thing when it sounds like garbage. If you believe ASR, every amp and source should sound the same
You are probably scratching the tip of the iceberg with a fosi - any damn fosi.
DESIGN PHILOSOPHY
Fosi Audio V3 mono is garbage ? I am using it in my HT. In what way is it bad - I won’t add more units in that case.Even v3 measures well but that doesn't mean a thing when it sounds like garbage. If you believe ASR, every amp and source should sound the same
You are probably scratching the tip of the iceberg with a fosi - any damn fosi.
This hobby is a bottomless pit
I'm also using that garbage which has replaced my tube amp
amrutmhatre90
Well-Known Member
You won't notice much of a difference in HT, but few I know have tried these class D amp to test does it really replace a big class AB amp.
First few minutes he liked it, but later preferred class A/B.
The tonality of these class D amps changes above 200-250hz, depending on speaker you might find it out quicker or later.
I'm also using that garbage which has replaced my tube amp
Good to know you prefer class D, in the end its your system.
I have heard the LS 50 Meta's with few amps, audiolab 6000a, 7000a, Willsenton R8, Fosi V3.
Best combo was 7000a and R8.
A lot will depend on your dac too, I was also using Kef Q150 with Fosi v3 and Wiim Mini as a complete 2nd system. Liked it for the simplicity.
Give good quality watts to LS50 Meta's and they will sing for sure!
I doubt their hunger for power. You heard them with Willsenton R8 which is 40-45 W per channel. I listen to them with Rotel which is 40w @8 ohm. TBH I don’t know what could be missing. Some may argue that watts from tube amps are > watts from SS amps etc. Last but not the least I will have to go to my electric substation in search of more watts
still ppl will say that it is dirty / adulterated power etc .Watts is watts. It is a measure of energy. It is not a measure of perceived loudness by our brain which gets fooled easily in matters of taste and in matters of hearing. Energy is what moves your speakers and remaining inefficiency of the speaker gets wasted as heat. You can't have 20w RMS from any amp (tube, shube, or any damn amp in this universe) to be more than 20 w RMS of any other type of amp. That is urban legend spread by clueless low power tube fanatics. Another misleading statement about the low power tube amp is that they have to be used with high efficiency speakers because of the low wattage and comparing it with solid state amp driving lower efficiency speaker. You cannot use low efficiency speakers with these flea powered tube amps.Some may argue that watts from tube amps are > watts from SS amps etc. Last but not the least I will have to go to my electric substation in search of more watts
People often say a tube amp's wattage is "greater" than a solid-state amp of the same rating because tube amps tend to sound louder and more "present" due to the natural harmonic distortion they produce, even at lower wattages, making them seem like they are putting out more volume than a solid-state amp with the same power rating; essentially, the perceived loudness is higher with a tube amp, not necessarily the actual power output.
- Breakup characteristic:
Tube amps tend to "break up" (distort) at lower volume levels than solid-state amps, which can also contribute to the perceived loudness. When you drive a tube amp, the first 12dB of overdrive (also known as non-linear region)produces a harmonic that tricks the human ear into thinking the amp is getting louder, when it is actually just becoming more distorted. This is why valve amps sound louder than solid state, especially if you put one up against a clean solid-state amp."
- Actual power may be the same:
While the perceived loudness might be higher with a tube amp, a 20-watt tube amp will not necessarily produce more actual power than a 20-watt solid-state amp.
- Tube amps will be louder whan driven beyond the amp's rated power. Solid state amps will abruptly start clipping and refuse to put out more power. OTOH tube amp will happily start adding more distortion instead of clipping and actually become louder than a solid state amp.
As i said, watts is watts. If a 5 watts tube amp can deliver more power than 5 watts world's energy crisis can be solved. Make a driver with a crank shaft connected to it and attach a gear box to it and put it inside a car and drive it with a tube amp as long as you can and produce energy. There is no difference between a solid state watts and a tube watt. It’s like saying there is a difference between a measurement of millimeters when you take a scale and measure 1 cm with the scale over a tube amp and the again measure 1 cm with the scale over a SS amp.
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amrutmhatre90
Well-Known Member
I doubt their hunger for power. You heard them with Willsenton R8 which is 40-45 W per channel. I listen to them with Rotel which is 40w @8 ohm. TBH I don’t know what could be missing. Some may argue that watts from tube amps are > watts from SS amps etc. Last but not the least I will have to go to my electric substation in search of more watts
I heard them in Triode mode which is much lesser! around 25 watts. I dont have it right now, but we can try your KEFs with My Hegel H390!
Lot more power, maybe then you would know what you might be missing.And again as some one pointed it out, its not about watts, but the impedance swings which the amps should handle and keep the speaker singing.
I have heard tube amps which were 7-8 watts and SS to 250-400 watts with same speakers, it all depends on synergy and how the current is delivered to the speakers. How the driver is controlled by the amp.
50 watts is fine for starters but once you hear and listen to slightly more powerful amp can do maybe then you would get the point.
Listen to the Hegel and end up spending more LOL. I think what you are referring to is differences in damping factors of different amps ?I heard them in Triode mode which is much lesser! around 25 watts. I dont have it right now, but we can try your KEFs with My Hegel H390!
And again as some one pointed it out, its not about watts, but the impedance swings which the amps should handle and keep the speaker singing.
I have heard tube amps which were 7-8 watts and SS to 250-400 watts with same speakers, it all depends on synergy and how the current is delivered to the speakers. How the driver is controlled by the amp.
50 watts is fine for starters but once you hear and listen to slightly more powerful amp can do maybe then you would get the point.
reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
For 20k they might be just okay new. But that TI chip has its own limitations and is nowhere near the best of what Class D offers. When i tried the fosi v3, it started distorting almost immediately when paired with dynaudio which are not an easy load. You need a bunch of different amps at hand to realise all this. Unless you compare, you won't know what is going wrong. Once you do, you will recognize such issues immediately.
amrutmhatre90
Well-Known Member
No, current delivery and how different amps grip the speakers. Kef and Hegel go hand in hand.
Its not about spending more, but knowing how a better amp will make speakers shine. Your amp might be good, but you never know until you try few more amps with same speakers.
@adas has super affordable power amps, do give them a try if you can.
rwnano
Well-Known Member
Nice experimentation sir
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