Building a low cost NAS/file server

[sam9s]

Thad,

Could you pls explain in simple terms what you would reccomend as a setup, if one needs more than 4 LAN ports.

I use a Beetel DSL modem, and a Linksys Wi-fi Router. I have used up all the ports on the router. Its a very old one, and I was planning to replace it with a router with more than 4 ports. The only one I found, is :
WD My Net N900 HD Dual-Band - WD: Flipkart.com

Its expensive, but reviews are good.

What would be your reccomendation for a simple but effective setup ?

Rgds...Argho

If you need more ports, go for a switch not a router, unless you plan to create another wifi zone somewhere else in your house ......

Keep the existing router, get an 8 port switch connect it with the router and there you go, you have 7 ports in hand now .....

 

[haisaikat]

If you need more ports, go for a switch not a router, unless you plan to create another wifi zone somewhere else in your house ......

Keep the existing router, get an 8 port switch connect it with the router and there you go, you have 7 ports in hand now .....

+1. This is the best approach at lowest cost.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thad,

Could you pls explain in simple terms what you would reccomend as a setup, if one needs more than 4 LAN ports.
...

I have dhcp turned on it both and that is not a problem as long as two boxes are having separate LAN segment and one does not see other which is usually the case if you have a router as a client of the main modem.

But I do understand your point on simplicity just like I have nightmares about using a Linux device

Well, I would not have more than one network segment, unless there was a really good reason to do so.

Argho, my recommendation would be to use a switch. You can get switches with any number of ports, and even chain them together. My next recommendation would have been to ask those who are working with networking today, rather than a decade ago. The principles won't have changes, but the products will, and also their practice will be up to date...

A simpler and cheaper option would be to buy a 5-port dlink or tplink switch which costs around Rs550, connect it to one port of your linksys router and use the other 4 ports to connect devices.

If you need more ports, go for a switch not a router, unless you plan to create another wifi zone somewhere else in your house

Exactly. Buy a router only if you need to route. That is, selectively shift network traffic from one network to another.

These days, everyone with a broadband connection becomes a bit of a network engineer. Although the setup for just a couple of machines wired/wireless can be done with no theoretical knowledge at all, I would suggest that anyone who has reason to set up anything more complex needs to do some learning. Not a lot: a couple of hours will do!

When I need to refresh my basic, and now rusty, network knowledge I start here: Google TCP/IP primer. I don't do this often enough to have a favourite, but it will take you to the stuff you need to know.

Until one reaches such stuff as subnetting not on a boundary, and the different routing protocols and ...stuff, it is remarkably simple. All part of the beauty of the system. I use exactly the same (or as much as I can remember) knowledge that I used to administer a network for 40-plus people with multiple servers, file and print sharing across platforms, for a home network with a handful of devices. It is only the scale that changes.

My experience with VPNs and standalone Firewalls is, as yet, not replicated in the home. One of the differences between me and real network engineer is that they speak Cisco. When it came to configuring multiple routes out of the office, I had to call in a real network engineer.

 

[mowgli80]

Thad ... Argho

Getting the router will have the following pros

a) single device to manage compared to having a router AND a switch - If you are not a network engineer, troubleshooting is far easier. Its essentially a router and switch combined into one box and one management interface.

b) improved bandwidth compared to your old router including 5 Ghz band support. Helps with your devices connected over wireless.

c) Continuation of a) - additional network cables and plug points for switch required. This is more of an aesthetic concern.

d) Sometimes, products from different companies may have proprietary extensions or different understanding/implementation of protocols which may not be compatible with others. Although this generally wont happen in non complex home networking, its always a concern.

e) It has USB port. You MAY be able to use it as your always on download rig by attaching a disk.

f) Some old routers do not even support WPA encryption. If yours does not, it is a BIG security concern which is taken care of by new router.

Pros for switch is already listed by Sam and Thad so wont get there. You can now decide based on your requirements .

 

[haisaikat]

a) single device to manage compared to having a router AND a switch - If you are not a network engineer, troubleshooting is far easier. Its essentially a router and switch combined into one box and one management interface.

this is true only if you are planning to buy a "managed" switch which is costlier 5K+ INR and the rest that are meant for deaktop / home usage are "unmanaged" ones which is dumb box that works like a port replicator similar to powered USB hubs. These unmanaged switches involve zero configuration

b) improved bandwidth compared to your old router including 5 Ghz band support. Helps with your devices connected over wireless.

Apparently this I have discussed in several threads that it is more of a fancy than reality if you have walls to penetrate for your wifi signals.

c) Continuation of a) - additional network cables and plug points for switch required. This is more of an aesthetic concern.

I cannot deny this

d) Sometimes, products from different companies may have proprietary extensions or different understanding/implementation of protocols which may not be compatible with others. Although this generally wont happen in non complex home networking, its always a concern.

I am sure this is not applicable for a switch.

e) It has USB port. You MAY be able to use it as your always on download rig by attaching a disk.

most of the time they support only FAT file system and only few support NTFS and they are not always plug and play which means you need to connect to the web console and mount the disk manually.

f) Some old routers do not even support WPA encryption. If yours does not, it is a BIG security concern which is taken care of by new router.

this is true

 

[haisaikat]

Well, I would not have more than one network segment, unless there was a really good reason to do so.

This is not always by choice, most of the mass market home ADSL modem cum routers come with ethernet ports and not gigabit ports (making them unsuitable for high speed data transfer) and if you want to buy a basic ADSL modem only with a single RJ-45 port then, at least in my case, I needed more ports since one went to the wifi router (whose wifi I cannot conditionally turn on / off with a switch except powering it on/off or logging into the console) another connection would go to an old netbook which is used for downloading only and the 3rd port for connecting to NAS (NAS is dual lan as it also connects to the wifi router apart from the modem-router for serving in house wired clients with ease) since the media library is shared and accessed by me and some of my friends over internet. The wifi router then works in a separate subnet and hence separate DHCP server which I turn on only when "wifi" is needed. In all there are around 10 wired clients and around 15 wifi clients in my home in all which is a lot of requirement to have separated devices for different purpose.

 

[mgdelhi]

Guys, thank you so much for sharing so much information on this thread, otherwise I would have missed it.

Now, presenting star of the evening. :clapping:

 

[mowgli80]

this ... configuration

Did not know that.

Apparently ... signals

The advantage here is, compared to his old router, the new one he has selected will give him additional bandwidth, which will be beneficial to non wired clients as well. In contrast, the switch will be beneficial only to wired ones. 5 GHz is just an icing on the cake. In crowded Indian urban areas, with more and more people moving to wifi, I think 5 GHz can come in handy in future. Its utility is not just restricted to penetrating walls (which I think will be less penetrative than 2.4 GHz). The next gen 802.11ac standard is also based on 5 GHz.

I am sure this is not applicable for a switch.

It happens more often than we think as companies try to introduce incompatiblities so that they can sell more of their own gear based on compatibility. This is mainly aimed at enterprise products but some of these implementations can be shared with home products.

most ... manually.

I suppose your concern is > 4 GB files which is not supported on FAT. Most of the routers run Linux and may support ext2/ext3 which is perfectly capable of handling large files. Accessing the disk over network means native physical filesystem does not matter. Moreover, ext3 is well supported on Windows by freeware software. Adventurous people can also use ddwrt or other open firmware which support the router. They do support NTFS as well.

This is ... purpose.

I agree with Thad. I did not completely understand your networking requirements but they sound complicated . Hence, you may require multiple subnets/segments. However, general home networking should be simple and restricted to single subnet/segment.

On a separate note, with 15 wifi clients, why do you switch the router on when needed? Would hidden ssid help?

 

[sam9s]

Guys, thank you so much for sharing so much information on this thread, otherwise I would have missed it.

Now, presenting star of the evening. :clapping:

Congratts mgdelhi .. . I will some day visit your house to see how Netgear performs ..... mean time enjoy. Do share your experience ....

 

[haisaikat]

Did not know that.



The advantage here is, compared to his old router, the new one he has selected will give him additional bandwidth, which will be beneficial to non wired clients as well. In contrast, the switch will be beneficial only to wired ones. 5 GHz is just an icing on the cake. In crowded Indian urban areas, with more and more people moving to wifi, I think 5 GHz can come in handy in future. Its utility is not just restricted to penetrating walls (which I think will be less penetrative than 2.4 GHz). The next gen 802.11ac standard is also based on 5 GHz.



It happens more often than we think as companies try to introduce incompatiblities so that they can sell more of their own gear based on compatibility. This is mainly aimed at enterprise products but some of these implementations can be shared with home products.



I suppose your concern is > 4 GB files which is not supported on FAT. Most of the routers run Linux and may support ext2/ext3 which is perfectly capable of handling large files. Accessing the disk over network means native physical filesystem does not matter. Moreover, ext3 is well supported on Windows by freeware software. Adventurous people can also use ddwrt or other open firmware which support the router. They do support NTFS as well.


I agree with Thad. I did not completely understand your networking requirements but they sound complicated . Hence, you may require multiple subnets/segments. However, general home networking should be simple and restricted to single subnet/segment.

On a separate note, with 15 wifi clients, why do you switch the router on when needed? Would hidden ssid help?

I have a ac router at home and its 5GHz performance over distance is as pathetic as the older N counterparts, thankfully I did not purchase this item out of my own pocket. If this range issue is not resolved (don't know how may be better modulation or increasing the power yet keeping the radiation safe) then apart from fancy users the AC option will not succeed like the 5g N options did not. After all not everyone has the necessity to stream from one table to another in the same room.

Regarding file system support, I agree your opinion on ext2 but then again that defeats the sole purpose of the usb feature on router that gives you the ability to use your portable hdd as nas drive and by converting that to ext you will end up restricting its operations reliably on windows unless all your home systems are linux and you are one of those linux freaks for whom making a particular thing work on their distro is more of a pleasure than the actual work no hard feelings but this is how one of such friends sound "do you know yesterday I spent the whole day tring to setup this XXX on my linux distro and I am so overjoyed that it could finally match the windows feature that could be set up and running in almost no time on windows" again I am not trying to sell windows here or show disrespect to a lot of linux lovers on HFV. It is all about how much time and energy you want to spend.

You are right that my requirement is commplex and the current setup is outcome of several years of planning and testing. Hidden ssid or not, you still need to keep the router powered on all the time right? My concern is not about security but more of device MTBF reaching faster.

 

[mgdelhi]

Congratts mgdelhi .. . I will some day visit your house to see how Netgear performs ..... mean time enjoy. Do share your experience ....

Thanks mate. And you are most welcome. :cheers:

 

[sam9s]

I agree with Thad. I did not completely understand your networking requirements but they sound complicated . Hence, you may require multiple subnets/segments. However, general home networking should be simple and restricted to single subnet/segment.
.

Pardon my intrusion, I have been reading the discussion, but it seems funny to even think of having two subnets on a home netwok, how so ever utterly complected/complex the environment is. There is no need unless you have more than 255 computers ......

If its for security, then there are other ways to implement it .....

Just my two cents...

Regards
Sammy

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

it seems funny to even think of having two subnets on a home network

It does to me too. When I first did it, my reason was because I can! Simply, it was fun to do something I might have done at work, years before, with a system that, at that time, consisted of one modem, one router and two wired PCs! It seemed, at the time, like the technically elegant solution. Only later I realised that it wasn't, and that, although it feels like plugging the flylead from the modem to the router into the wrong side of the box, the simpler network is actually more elegant.

Now I have about seven devices. If I had thirty or forty devices in the house, I'd probably implement a model much more like a commercial setup. Maybe a stand-alone firewall, for starters.

When designing all this, I do recommend starting with paper and pencil. The pictures that mgdelhi posted earlier represent the physical topology, which is, of course, needed, but the network, conceptually, does not look like that, it looks like this...

|------+-------+-------+------|

I remember the first time I saw a network hub (not switch, at that time). It baffled me entirely: I only understood when I visualised it as a single coax cable crammed into a box, with all the devices connected to it!


.

 

[mowgli80]

I have ... to another in the same room.

Yes, 5GHz is less penetrative than 2.4 GHz but that is the future. Although I do not use it, I do not think its as bad as you say it is. I have heard other more successful cases. Some people are even able to stream multiple HD streams on 802.11ac. Perhaps your home layout is not conducive to wifi. You can try having multiple routers running in repeater mode. I read somewhere that (I maybe wrong here), for same power, to push more data, you need higher frequency which are less reliable over distance. So our troubles are going to get far worse .

Regarding file system support, ... linux freaks ... to spend.

I think calling people "freaks" because they don't toe your line of thinking is not cool (I am one of them ). We all have our passions and we follow it. As an analogy, like a lot of people in this forum, I go through ridiculous amount of efforts just to get the sound of my mid fi gear to my liking. My wife still prefers her phone to play music over the phone loudspeaker as she thinks starting ten different boxes to play music is not worth it. If playing music is the end goal, then according to you, hers is the right approach and yet, you sail in the freak boat when it comes to audio. I say, to each, their own. Sorry for being off topic.

Back to topic, as I had mentioned earlier, if you accessing the hard drive as a NAS, the physical file system on disk file system does not matter, be it NTFS, FAT, EXT*, JFS, XFS or any other file system. This is taken care of by SAMBA server. Its a problem only if you physically attach the disk to your PC running Windows once in a while but you have freeware drivers which will take care of that.

You are ... MTBF reaching faster.

In my opinion, introducing another equipment (switch) to run 24x7 ( and reaching its MTBF faster) instead your router, a cheap commodity which will already be outdated by the time it reaches it MTBF, is perplexing. But then, you know your requirements better. Again, to each their own .

Pardon my intrusion, ... Sammy

Based on my little uderstanding, I think he maintains a community dump along with neighbours/friends for media and private data stash on the same NAS. I think subnets makes it a lot easier to firewall and control access to different data for him.

 

[sam9s]

Based on my little uderstanding, I think he maintains a community dump along with neighbours/friends for media and private data stash on the same NAS. I think subnets makes it a lot easier to firewall and control access to different data for him.

Even then as I said if security is of any concern there are lot other ways to do it, VLAN (if the switch supports), Hardware VPN/Firewall with SPI comes to my mind, but then again why would you need such lever of security on a Home network.

A simple software VPN, SSL, SSH can be implemented and make it enough secure for general use. (atleast my Network is secure with the same and even I share my media/data among my friends and family)

If restricting a user is on the priority VPN serves the purpose effectively. Or VLAN for that matter if your network gear allows.

Subnetting is only advisable if you have a huge network, with all sorts of peripherals, preferably at different location, with heavy traffic and you want to isolate departments/locations.

 

[mowgli80]

Even then as I said ... departments/locations.

Unfortunately, networking is not field of proficiency. The methods you suggest are equally alien to me as having a complex subnet based setup, so can't comment on which approach is better. However, I suppose haisaikat would have given due consideration to all approaches before selecting the one which would go best with his requirements.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think calling people "freaks" because they don't toe your line of thinking is not cool (I am one of them ).

So am I . But I don't feel that freak is an insulting term. Maybe because I was a scruffy individual with elbow length hair and beard 40 yrs ago, and, at that time, my friends and I preferred to be called "freaks" rather than "hippies." I guess it does rather depend on how it is said, and that may be hard to see on the screen. It's a word a bit like geek, which, it seems, is now coming to have a positive meaning. Certainly it does mean being a little bit different: nobody would talk about Windows freaks (give it a few years?), but being a little bit different is something I've never minded. I guess I'd be dead by now if I did!

Back to topic, as I had mentioned earlier, if you accessing the hard drive as a NAS, the physical file system on disk file system does not matter, be it NTFS, FAT, EXT*, JFS, XFS or any other file system. This is taken care of by SAMBA server. Its a problem only if you physically attach the disk to your PC running Windows once in a while but you have freeware drivers which will take care of that.

You mean different file systems don't sound different? You can't hear the difference? hyeah:

Based on my little uderstanding, I think he maintains a community dump along with neighbours/friends for media and private data stash on the same NAS. I think subnets makes it a lot easier to firewall and control access to different data for him.

Want access to somebody else's subnet? Just change your subnet! But I's sure that haisaikat's network is properly thought out and there is much, much more to it than that. Doubt that I would even be able to think my way through such requirements now --- which is another good reason for me to keep things simple!

 

[sam9s]

So am I . But I don't feel that freak is an insulting term

I prefer Geek than freak to be frank....

 

[haisaikat]

Someday I hope to get a writing session class from Thad. True that I did not mean to insult anyone with freak but it was more of geek that I wanted to say. Probably I should have been more careful in selecting the words. Apologies if it meant different or harsh, that is against my nature anyway.

I liked the cellphone analogy of mgdelhi though and truly if cellphone had produced the same effect as my HT I would have preferred the cell phone unless it costed more and convenience-price is unjustified.

 

[mgdelhi]

I liked the cellphone analogy of mgdelhi though and truly if cellphone had produced the same effect as my HT I would have preferred the cell phone unless it costed more and convenience-price is unjustified.

I didn't understand it completely but thanks anyway.