Cinema's greatest classics

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ajay124 said:
Polish Cinema | Warsaw Life

Watching films from Poland and Hungary in a festival venue has been one of the highpoints of my life as a 'cinephile' :)

For me the great nations for Cinema are Japan,France,Italy,Spain,Germany,Hungary,Poland,Germany,Sweden,Russia and China.I can comfortably live with not ever watching another movie made in India or the United States.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link Ajay. I know you will be watching Saat Khoon Maaf, so dont say that. :P ;)

Howdy? I was actually reading a discussion where a few people who have watched a lot of cinema were expressing how most of the films they have is of American, European Art House and Japanese films by popular film makers of Japan. Japan for instance has a wide array of films and can match USA or France in terms of number of great films it has produced. It was a great take.

A lot of experimental, documentary, smaller cinema goes largely unnoticed. I watch cinema to give me new experiences and I am making it a point to watch different kinds of films. I watched Dogtooth for instance which I would implore you to watch which comes from Greece, a country which doesn't have a huge history of cinema. Then there was Steam of Life from Finland. Enter The Void is an experimental film which I can't wait to watch.

The biggest sadness I have is about African cinema being ignored largely. They have the African Oscars every year and I was finding it difficult to even find the list of winners etc. So you can forget having access to the bulk of the African films. You do get the odd Yesterday or Tsotsi but it is a rare event. This year, the South African submission at the Oscars is a strong contender to be nominated and I hope it does.
 
Pratters said:
Thanks for that link Ajay. I know you will be watching Saat Khoon Maaf, so dont say that. :P ;)


@Pratters
How did you guess that?
Vishal Bhardwaj has been one of the few Bollywood director's I have kept up with in recent years.
I don't like Priyanka(the last Indian actress I was floored by was Tabu-Hu Tu Tu,Maqbool) but
I just might be cueing up on opening weekend for Saat Khoon Maaf :)

* I googled Saat Khoon Maaf and came to know that Naseer is one of the husband's!
So I will probably be in a multiplex on 18.02.2011.
Click to expand...
 
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I don't watch more than 1 or 2 Bollywood films in a year and usually come away disappointed,but I used to watch plenty of them in the 70's and 80's.For me the big films were not the 'silver jubilees' or the Filmfare/Screen award winners,but films which blew in like a fresh breeze into the musty closed in corridor's of unadventerous Bollywood.
One such film was Hrishikesh Mukherjee's Anand.In a cinema which was in denial mode when it came to death,handling it with kids gloves through a haze of terror,here was a hero insouciantly marching towards death,facing it,with a smile and a song....
 
Seminal Bollywood films
Pyaasa For being Bollywood's most philosophical film.Yeh Duniya Agar Mil Bhi Jaye Toh Kya Hai.
Anand For attempting to make 'death' less terrifying.
Bobby For bringing 'sex' out of the closet and within the realms of a 'possibility'.
Deewar For providing the ultimate larger than life 'anti hero' for a mass of people suffocating from too much authority and conformism.
Sholay For providing the most remarkable Bollywood villain ever.Gabbar is not just a hard act but an impossible act to follow.
Jaane Bhi Do Yaro For being the first satire/comedy which was funny and serious,silly and thought provoking with great chemistry between its two male protagonists.
Ardh Satya For being the high watermark for cop movies in India.
Hazaron Khwaishyen Aaise For being Bollywood's first grown up political film.
DDLJ For converting authoritarian,spoil sport parents into collaborators and fellow conspirators actively helping their children in finding and marrying the love of their lives.Death blow to 'arranged marriages'
Bandit Queen For bringing profanity and India's vast hinterland into the smug middle class language and manners of Bollywood's 'suitable for families fare'.Good one Shekhar!Where are you?
 
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ajay124 said:
Pratters said:
Thanks for that link Ajay. I know you will be watching Saat Khoon Maaf, so dont say that. :P ;)


@Pratters
How did you guess that?
Vishal Bhardwaj has been one of the few Bollywood director's I have kept up with in recent years.
I don't like Priyanka(the last Indian actress I was floored by was Tabu-Hu Tu Tu,Maqbool) but
I just might be cueing up on opening weekend for Saat Khoon Maaf :)

* I googled Saat Khoon Maaf and came to know that Naseer is one of the husband's!
So I will probably be in a multiplex on 18.02.2011.
Click to expand...

You mentioned you liked Bharadwaj some where I think. I didn't think of the Nasir factor earlier though. You do LOVE him.
Click to expand...
 
ajay124 said:
I don't watch more than 1 or 2 Bollywood films in a year and usually come away disappointed,but I used to watch plenty of them in the 70's and 80's.For me the big films were not the 'silver jubilees' or the Filmfare/Screen award winners,but films which blew in like a fresh breeze into the musty closed in corridor's of unadventerous Bollywood.
One such film was Hrishikesh Mukherjee's Anand.In a cinema which was in denial mode when it came to death,handling it with kids gloves through a haze of terror,here was a hero insouciantly marching towards death,facing it,with a smile and a song....
Click to expand...

1 or 2 films? Hmm. I watch more than that. I am usually very selective. However, I made terrible choices last year, so I am very wary. 70s and 80s seem to be a terrible time for bollywood where mainstream films goes. So I am pleasantly surprised you say there were some pretty good films. Do let me know some good films/directors from the period. Few I can think of - Gulzar, Benegal, Kundan.

Anand is an excellent film. My favorite is Mili. I love Hrishikesh Mukherjee. I have watched a few of his films and I relate to his sensibilities.
 
@Pratters
"70s and 80s seem to be a terrible time for bollywood where mainstream films goes."

What are your views on 'mainstream cinema' over the years?
Mine would be something like....
It is the very nature of 'popular cinema',that it starts seeming 'terrible' after a couple of decades.Because these films are addressing the popular trends and fashions of those times.
Once those trends and fashions have passed away,so too does the 'fashionable' cinema of those days.
When I was watching Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh Bachchan in the 70's,the 60's hero's and their films looked dated and vaguely ridiculous.
When I migrated to Naseer,Om,Smita and Shabana in the 80's,I stopped watching the 'superstars' of the 70's.
In the 90's for a little while I watched Shahrukh and Aamir films.Also Bhansali,Mani Ratnam,Vidhu Chopra,RGV,Mahesh Bhatt.But that too passed.
I still have fond memories of the 'parallel cinema':) of the early 80's and of Guru Dutt,because these films had only one foot in the 'popular' camp.
With the other foot they were trying to march into the future.A future yet to be born,where cinema was not obsessed with 'popular' trends and 'larger than life' heroes,but closer to 'real' life.
It is not essential that popular cinema is entertaining and intellectual cinema is boring.The best films can acheive both.Be entertaining and intellectual at the same time.
These are the films which live beyond the 'popular' phase and with time are deemed to be 'classics'.
For me the highs and lows of 'mainstream cinema' and 'mainstream existence' can be encapsulated in one memorable line from Pyaasa.
Yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaye toh kya hai?
Yeh stardom,fame,fortune,sex,awards mil bhi jaye toh kya hai?
What is the big deal about it,that every Bollywood star and wannabe star and the audience which follows these stars is chasing it?
With time I have moved further into the Guru Dutt camp
"Tumhari hai tum hi sambhalo yeh duniya"
 
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ajay124 said:
Vishal Bhardwaj has been one of the few Bollywood director's I have kept up with in recent years ... the last Indian actress I was floored by was Tabu
Click to expand...

I love Vishal Bhardwaj films and Maqbool is class. Sometimes I just start watching it; one movie that is always on top of the DVD rack.

Tabu was perfect in Maqbool. There are 2 female actors I love to see cry on screen -Tabu and Konkona.

Ajay, you've mentioned Japanese films. Where can I rent titles in Mumbai - any clue?
 
shaiju_o_thomas said:
I love Vishal Bhardwaj films and Maqbool is class. Sometimes I just start watching it; one movie that is always on top of the DVD rack.

Tabu was perfect in Maqbool. There are 2 female actors I love to see cry on screen -Tabu and Konkona.

Ajay, you've mentioned Japanese films. Where can I rent titles in Mumbai - any clue?
Click to expand...

Bigflix World Cinema Collection.
Kurosawa,Bergman,Bunuel,Truffaut,Fellini,De Sica....
World Cinema | BIGFlix DVD Rental - India's Largest Movie Rental Service. Rent Movies, Television Shows, Documentaries, Plays and Kids' Videos.
Some Japanese director's.
Kenji Mizoguchi
Yasujiro Ozu
Akira Kurosawa
Shohei Imamura
Nagisa Oshima
Hiroshi Teshigara
 
ajay124 said:
@Pratters
"70s and 80s seem to be a terrible time for bollywood where mainstream films goes."

What are your views on 'mainstream cinema' over the years?
Mine would be something like....
It is the very nature of 'popular cinema',that it starts seeming 'terrible' after a couple of decades.Because these films are addressing the popular trends and fashions of those times.
Once those trends and fashions have passed away,so too does the 'fashionable' cinema of those days.
When I was watching Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh Bachchan in the 70's,the 60's hero's and their films looked dated and vaguely ridiculous.
When I migrated to Naseer,Om,Smita and Shabana in the 80's,I stopped watching the 'superstars' of the 70's.
In the 90's for a little while I watched Shahrukh and Aamir films.Also Bhansali,Mani Ratnam,Vidhu Chopra,RGV,Mahesh Bhatt.But that too passed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your views firstly. Very interesting stuff. Main stream cinema is what the people like to watch at large. It is mostly crap. Now let's see, when you were watching Amitabh and Rajesh Khanna films of the 70s, I am sure even that time you would have not thought much of it. I went through that phase in the 90s. I watched bollywood films a lot but the yearning was always for some thing which would excite the senses and most of the mainstream films never used to do that. There is a reason you moved on to Nasir and Shabana in the 80s - you didn't like the mainstream any more that much. You don't watch more than 2 bollywood films a year now which tells some thing about the natural progression.

The MTV People's Choice Awards was held a few days ago where people voted for the best films online. If you look at the winners, your mind might boggle. Twilight for instance won the best film award.

It is interesting some thing like True Grit did so well at the US Box Office but usually the films which do well aren't the best films. It doesn't surprise me though. That so many millions of people go to watch films every week all around the world is quite a revelation for me. You don't find other art forms enjoying any where near such popularity. Now if the whole world went to watch paintings for instance, you can't expect them to understand, have a feel for the art or any thing very deep. They might go every week even but the reason they might go might be just to have a outing with the family or spend time with their girl friends. It is an entirely different matter that watching a film together is the worst way to spend time together except if you want to spend it with a fellow film aficionado. There is no real communication going on when you watch a film.

I still have fond memories of the 'parallel cinema':) of the early 80's and of Guru Dutt,because these films had only one foot in the 'popular' camp.
With the other foot they were trying to march into the future.A future yet to be born,where cinema was not obsessed with 'popular' trends and 'larger than life' heroes,but closer to 'real' life.
Click to expand...

I haven't watched a lot of the parallel Indian films of the 80s and I certainly want to watch a fair few of them which I will eventually. However, I heard a comment by Nasir which was telling. He said the parallel cinema of India at that time was mostly about cruelty against women, landless labourers and stuff and he was tired of the same topics done to death. Aren't there more topics in the world? As you are a very big Nasir fan, I urge you to watch some of his interviews on youtube. There are loads there and it is good stuff. I don't always agree with him but it is great hearing his thoughts.

It is not essential that popular cinema is entertaining and intellectual cinema is boring.The best films can acheive both.Be entertaining and intellectual at the same time.
Click to expand...

I have a problem with the word entertaining cinema. You know, the few years before Star Wars happened, there were a lot of films which had unhappy endings but did well at the box office. After Star Wars came out, people wanted every thing all good. You can't imagine some thing like noir in the mainstream in the 80s can you? Being entertained means having a goody goody story which doesn't touch any real depths. It is a pretty poor premise but that's what it became and that's where the roots lie.

I hate it when people say you watch 'boring' and 'depressing' films. They haven't watched any of the films I have watched, so why do they prejudge, and so wrongly. Has any one watched Ghatak's Badi Theke Paliye? It is an exhilerating film and not boring at all. Elevator to the Gallows by Bunuel is such a great thriller. Heh.

These are the films which live beyond the 'popular' phase and with time are deemed to be 'classics'.
For me the highs and lows of 'mainstream cinema' and 'mainstream existence' can be encapsulated in one memorable line from Pyaasa.
Yeh duniyagar mil bhi jaye toh kya hai?
Yeh stardom,fame,fortune,sex,awards mil bhi jaye toh kya hai?
What is the big deal about it,that every Bollywood star and wannabe star and the audience which follows these stars is chasing it?
With time I have moved further into the Guru Dutt camp
"Tumhari hai tum hi sambhalo yeh duniya"
Click to expand...

It is always so exciting when I see some one buck the trend. The young Michelle Williams is one such actor, and she is a great actor. Chooses the out of the box roles. Doesn't do any of the star routines and stuff either. Nandita Das is a prime example of the kind of stuff you are talking about as well. She is actually taking her activism forward through her films as well though you don't always have to do that. On Guru Dutt - I have started a marathon on my blog on his films. Do check it out..
 
@pratters
'Parallel Cinema" began with Shyam Benegal's Ankur.It came out in '74 but I probably saw it in '77 or so.I had just passed out of school and was discovering many new things.Smoking,Robert De Niro,Bob Dylan,Girls and when Nishant came out .... Naseer.
I remember having read that the film had an exciting new actor from the film institute.I was expecting something on the lines of an intense Amitabh or Dalip Kumar.But Naseer turned out to be completely different.I became an immediate fan.Naseer in his first few films seemed to be comparable to Brando,De Niro,Pacino,Nicholson and Hoffman.All the actor's I used to admire!Over the next few years I avidly followed what was being called India's "new wave".
The new wave started waning when Naseer signed Karma and started criticizing the cinema for which he had become the poster boy.I followed his comments in the media and was impressed by his honesty and sense of humour.But I did not agree with his critique of the 'new wave' and the director's who had given him such good roles.Those films were pretty good by any standard!
Bollywood gave him money,but the films he made in those day's are embarrasingly bad.What should have been his best years went by playing second fiddle to Sunil Shetty,Anil Kapur,Akshay Kumar,Sunny Deol.
Attenborough's Gandhi was his chance to reach a worldwide audience,but since the film was primarily being made for wetern audiences,Naseer lost out to Ben Kingsley.
Years later I was at the Kamani Auditorium in Delhi for Gandhi v/s Gandhi.There was a hushed silence as the play began with a single spotlight.As Naseer walked on to the stage it really seemed like everyone in the audience had been touched by the spirit of Gandhi.Ben Kingsley was good but Naseer was better.

Shyam Benegal: Commitment Personified
 
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ajay124 said:
Bigflix World Cinema Collection.
Kurosawa,Bergman,Bunuel,Truffaut,Fellini,De Sica....
World Cinema | BIGFlix DVD Rental - India's Largest Movie Rental Service. Rent Movies, Television Shows, Documentaries, Plays and Kids' Videos.
Some Japanese director's.
Kenji Mizoguchi
Yasujiro Ozu
Akira Kurosawa
Shohei Imamura
Nagisa Oshima
Hiroshi Teshigara
Click to expand...

You ignore Takeshi Kitano. I really liked Hana-bi, Sonatine, and the more commercial but extremely entertaining samurai (rather, sword-fighting) movie, Zato-ichi. On a side-note, note the paintings shown in Hana-bi. They're painted by Takeshi himself, and I found them quite stunning.

Edit: Anime directors should also be mentioned, like Miyazaki.
 
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A brief comprehensive history of Parallel Cinema in India.
The Director links at the bottom would provide links to the films.
It would be rewarding and 'entertaining' to watch them at random or in a 'timeline sequence'.
Going over these films,I felt that the Indian New wave may not have
received it's fair due,as the media focus is almost entirely on Bollywood.
It is an important body of films,which can hold it's own against the 'art cinema'
of any nation.
Parallel Cinema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Rockfella said:
Why are we talking about hindi movies in this thread guys???????? :(
Click to expand...
@Rockfella
A few diversions now and then make a journey interesting.In any case we are discussing non mainstream cinema.Can be in any language.
But some more 'exotic' fare :)
The Secret Of The Grain
Abdellatif Kechiche
A recent French/Tunisian movie which wowed the critics and public alike.A long completely satisfying film.Hafsia Herzi won major awards in her debut role and is a star in the making.
YouTube - The Secret of the Grain - Reel Time
 
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