Clash of the Titans, Sunfire V/S SVS V/S Polk Subwoofers !

[alphacentury100]

check PSB's series 300 sub-woofer which has a LF cutoff at 24 Hz and supplies 300w continuous power, dynamic peak of 850w with a 12 inch driver and less than 0.5 watts on standby.
5 year warranty to boot.

HI, Howmuch does the PSB SubSeries 300 cost? is the SubSeries500 available yet?

 

[alphacentury100]

If you are nuts about bass, please try Bag End Loudspeakers Manufacturing the finest in high technology speakers and subwoofers.

Of course it will cost you around 1500 $, one is enough to give heart attack to an elephant. A.R.Rahman uses 3 of them for his mastering studio. LOL

The Bag End subs dont look that impressive on paper. Of course there are a lot of high performance subs out there in US which can walk all over the Bagend subs. JTR OrbitShifter is one sub which can outperform any sub above 20hz both in loudness and sound quality period.

The BagEnd IPS18E-R INFRASUB can do:
Maximum Calculated Continuous Acoustic Output: Half Space @ 1 Meter
10 Hz - 89 dBSPL
20 Hz - 101 dBSPL
40 Hz - 113 dBSPL
80 Hz - 124 dBSP

This isn't that impressive, and the Infrasonic spl's by this sub isn't that impressive to call this sub as INFRASUB. Even the SVS PB13Ultra can go louder than this sub.

 

[krishnamurthy]

PSB Subseries 300 costs 72k but maybe you can get discount of 3-4k at the maximum.

Sub Series 200 costs 47k though.

 

[alphacentury100]

Any place in chennai where I can audition these PSB subs?

 

[Naturelover]

Any place in chennai where I can audition these PSB subs?

Check with La Kozy, Mumbai who are the distributors in India

 

[[email protected]]

The Bag End subs dont look that impressive on paper. Of course there are a lot of high performance subs out there in US which can walk all over the Bagend subs. JTR OrbitShifter is one sub which can outperform any sub above 20hz both in loudness and sound quality period.

The saddest part is that we all go by PAPERS... The guy who literally owns Indias biggest recording studio, compose and mix bollywood, tollywood & hollywood movies, the one whom every Indian calls God of Indian music must be dumb to install these stupid subs (as per paper) in his biggest studio..

It would be helpful if someone check below link and go through the effort and investments.

http://www.bagend.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/A-R-Rahman.pdf

 

[sanloyn]

Sunfire Sub owners,

Can you please suggest SDS 12 for a living room size 12ft x 17ft. Do you think will it be a over kill.
I am looking for a tight bass, not boom boom or muddy. My preference is Music/Movie 50%/50%.
SDS 12 is available for 35k which includes shipment along with 3 meter cable. Kindly suggest.

 

[alphacentury100]

The saddest part is that we all go by PAPERS... The guy who literally owns Indias biggest recording studio, compose and mix bollywood, tollywood & hollywood movies, the one whom every Indian calls God of Indian music must be dumb to install these stupid subs (as per paper) in his biggest studio..

It would be helpful if someone check below link and go through the effort and investments.

Bag End

Sorry for the very delayed response. Read your reply only today.

Do check this link, especially post no 13 and 27:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...568-sub-replace-my-bag-end-infrasub-18-a.html

Here you can see that even the old SVS PB12 Ultras can outperform the Bagend infrasub in all the areas(clarity, punch, tightness, depth, and loudness).

You spoke about AR.Rahman owning this Bag end sub.
Of course he does, but do you think he would have browsed the internet for years about subs and had gone to every shop in US and auditioned all the subs before buying this sub? definitely not. Because, his time is much precious so he would be spending his time listening to music and creating them. Then this is what he may have done: He would have hired some professional(the guys who would always recommend B&M brands and have no knowledge about ID brands) to complete his setup.

I even read many reviews about the Bagend subs and all the reviews unanimously says that these subs clip at even modest levels for movies, however they are good for music.

The bagend sub is basically a professional sub and they can never go even beyond 2" of peak to peak excursion.

The Bagend sub can never match a JL Gotham or a Sub2 or a Seaton Submersive HP or a Funk 18.0 or a Funk 21.0 or a JTR Captivator or a JTR Orbit Shifter or a PSA t18 or PSA V3600 or a RA Gamma 21 or a RA Echo 21 or a RA Echo 18XL in Bass quantity or bass quality or extension or cleanliness or impact or nuance period.
Of course, most of these subs may not have been available when he made his setup.

 

[gp_freak]

^
Sealed Subs cannot match the output of ported designs. That said, the out put of even the 21 inch bagend sub looks pathetic in papers.

For a sub for its musical value, we can know that only when we audition it. May be they are designed to be a very fast sub with beautiful transients and compromised heavily on sound output.

 

[krishnamurthy]

The saddest part is that we all go by PAPERS... The guy who literally owns Indias biggest recording studio, compose and mix bollywood, tollywood & hollywood movies, the one whom every Indian calls God of Indian music must be dumb to install these stupid subs (as per paper) in his biggest studio..

It would be helpful if someone check below link and go through the effort and investments.

Bag End

Just coz it is AR Rahman, his music equipment selection as well as music output is supposed to be exceptional. I do not think so. There are far better subs and far better equipment out there. Just like someone commented, some third party fella would have recommend this setup, that is all.
Remember music is subjective, not an objective exercise.

 

[alphacentury100]

^
Sealed Subs cannot match the output of ported designs. That said, the out put of even the 21 inch bagend sub looks pathetic in papers.

For a sub for its musical value, we can know that only when we audition it. May be they are designed to be a very fast sub with beautiful transients and compromised heavily on sound output.

Do you mean to say that the Velodynes reference sub The DD18+ (sealed sub) has lesser output than lets say Velodyne EQ max 15(ported sub)????

In the link I provided, you can clearly see that people who had the bagend sub say that this sub distorts a lot below 40hz and this sub also clips for modest volume. Would you still prefer to call this distorter musical?

IF a old SVS PB12Ultra can outperform a bagend 18infrasub both in quantity and quality, then the subs that I have mentioned are miles ahead(in another league) of even the new SVS PB13Ultra. so they can walk all over the bagend sub effortlessly.


Can you show me a bagend ported sub that can outperform the JTR Captivator S2 sealed sub? no way.
Seaton submersive HP is one sub which has the cleanest out put.The owner of the company Mark Seaton never advertised on any magazine, but still people all over the world love this sub. This sub has won almost all the blind audition test in all the gtg's,for its sheer power and Quality(speed, depth, punch) This sub can easily go louder than even the PB13Ultra ported sub by great margin, except around the tuning frequency of the PB13, which is 20hz. and JTR S2 can outperform even a pair of bagend 21" ported sub

Port will give advantage around its tuning frequency, but that isn't all. For a good subwoofer, you need a good capable driver, a strong high power amp with clean current, proper tuning of the amp, a properly designed box and proper implementation of all these.

Moreover, the list of subwoofers that I have mentioned as best subs contains sealed, ported and hornloaded subs.

In the link that I gave, you could have clearly seen that people who had the bagend subs say that this sub distorts a lot below 40hz. Thats pathetic for a reference quality sub.

Bagend subs aren't that expensive, but still, why do you think few people buy them?? The are more like PA subs (not PA subs because PA subs can play loud above 30hz)
Why do you think SVS, JTR, SEATON, PSA, RA and Funk are appreciated by people allover the internet.
Most of the subs that I have mentioned have never appeared in any magazine, but still they are loved by people, because these subs perform that good.

This is the driver used in a bagend infrasub18:

 

[alphacentury100]

And these are the JTR Captivator1400 and JTR Captivator S1,S2 driver.
Compared to these drivers, the bagend driver looks more like a PA midrange driver.
Of course looks dont tell the whole story, but some times they do.
(a small correction guys, I think the bagend subs are sealed designs)
These subs are designed to be carried around. They look more like the speakers that we see in wedding parties. These are defenitely not musical are movie subs. Just party hall instruments.

 

[alphacentury100]

I am posting this again
The BagEnd IPS18E-R INFRASUB can do:
Maximum Calculated Continuous Acoustic Output: Half Space @ 1 Meter
10 Hz - 89 dBSPL
20 Hz - 101 dBSPL
40 Hz - 113 dBSPL
80 Hz - 124 dBSP

IF you are still not convinced, the please take a look at this link
Data-Bass

This graph is of the JTR OrbitShifter. For the record, these are not the values provided by JTR, but these measurements are taken by The famous Rick. So no biasing.

 

[gp_freak]

^
First as I said, all Bagend subs are sealed ones
Second, I am not defending the Bagend sub. TBH, this is the first time I ever heard about it.

But I have a strong notion that musicality of a sub can never be questioned by just looking at specs. Not many Indian music has LF below 40 Hz and going through the Bagend product line up, it looks to be designed for PA or Concert or such type of applications even with eye bolt fixings for carrying around and fixing and these applications doesn't need any frequencies below 40 Hz

Also they Cant afford to have huge drivers in it as it constitute to more weight.

About your comparison, 18 inch driver has 500 Cm2 more Sd than a 15 inch Driver. To put more simpler, the radiating area of an 18 inch driver is 50 % more than the radiating area of 15 inch driver. So not a valid comparison.

 

[alphacentury100]

^
First as I said, all Bagend subs are sealed ones
Second, I am not defending the Bagend sub. TBH, this is the first time I ever heard about it.

But I have a strong notion that musicality of a sub can never be questioned by just looking at specs. Not many Indian music has LF below 40 Hz and going through the Bagend product line up, it looks to be designed for PA or Concert or such type of applications even with eye bolt fixings for carrying around and fixing and these applications doesn't need any frequencies below 40 Hz

Also they Cant afford to have huge drivers in it as it constitute to more weight.

About your comparison, 18 inch driver has 500 Cm2 more Sd than a 15 inch Driver. To put more simpler, the radiating area of an 18 inch driver is 50 % more than the radiating area of 15 inch driver. So not a valid comparison.

So This sub cant play loud even though it has an 18" driver, it cant go below 40hz because it is a musical sub.
I wonder what Mr.Rahman would do to listen to the Blasts and BGM effects which unlike music has a lot of Lowfrequency effects.
So, this sub doesn't qualify to be called a sub. Perhaps MID BASS MODULE will be more suitable.
Even all the high end floorstands can play down to 40hz then why need this MBM?

And for the surface area thing, there is one more factor to be considered (piston stroke length). JL Fathome drivers have just 13.5" drivers but have a lot of stroke length and hence produce a lot of bass, even much more than a bagend 18" sub. So my dear friend, we can compare a 15" driver to an 18" driver.

Simply put, this sub cannot give heartattacks to an elephant as someone described and there are a hell lot of subs out there that can play more musical and faster and louder and go deeper at the same time and also cost less. AR Rahman deserves better subs. Maybe a quad submersive HP will make him hear audio notes and frequencies that he has never heard before from his bagend sub.

 

[gp_freak]

^ You misunderstood. You cannot compare output of two different drivers for application in Sealed VS Ported.

You need to compare the same Driver. That is where the ported ones will be twice louder.

Not just Xmax, there are other parameters as well, but when it comes to two driver of Different Size and Same X Max, the bigger sub wins hands down.

Actually a recording studio doesn't need a sub's like that which goes deeper. LFE are added during post recording during mixng for Music, Blast Effects or BGM. That's how it is done.

LF actually created a lot of issues during recording. Fyi

I think we are going OT big time my friend.

 

[alphacentury100]

Ok, I will put it as simple as possible.
The Bagend sub or MBM isn't impressive at all and there are much much much better subs out there for less.
End of Story.

 

[ajay0722]

SDS 12 is available for 35k which includes shipment along with 3 meter cable. Kindly suggest.

Can you pls share the dealer detail who offered this Price. I want to go for one....

TIA
Ajay

 

[Rajkurien]

Here are my short list based on the above comments

1) SVS PB 1000 Pro( new version to Svs PB 1000)
2) SUNFIRE SDS 12
3) SUNFIRE HRS 12
Can you help me with ur experiences comparing this