Clear me difference between digital and analogue sound

Thats a nice explanation.
But I have a question that can you really listen to these byproducts? Every equipment in the chain adds its own byproduct and hence total harmony of the system becomes important. Amp might be adding undesired X but if speaker is not able to replay X then effectively we have a good system.

Also, IMO, we humans like imperfections and variations. We like to reach to 95% but like to keep remaining 5% intact. For sound I feel the same, if the sound is too clean, we dont like it.

But, I dont like to use 'to each his own', YMMV etc terms, feels like its a way to escape the actual question and avoid all the trouble ;)


My real point was that in the normal run of things, the digital consumer will suffer from inferior SQ
This is something I find hard to accept. If the output of MP3 and full range 4inch driver is so bad, people would have spent enough to get a better sound.
98% population is happy with higher rate MP3 and 2-way driver configuration. I think this proves that digital sound quality is sufficient.
 
Adding few Points or my understanding

Mono is the original or take it as nature which is recorded in digital format for various manipulation like, 2.1,5.1,7.1 so Onnnn..

I can find PPL who love Vintage says Mono is the best Coz Mono seems the Original Sound, In digital format we filter some frequencies work to make it clear

So here is fight between CLEAR and NATURAL

If you like Digital then got for Stereo or Surround amps and if you like Mono check for the Vintage TT,Phonogram etc:)
 
Thats a nice explanation.
But I have a question that can you really listen to these byproducts?
Thanks,
For digital, as I said, for low sampling rate affects HF >10KHz, LF is not impacted. You can hear harsh, or too sharp high or lost. Variable and high sampling rates (like Tripath) are sure near to audiophile but discrete class-D are dull sounding. For analog it is easy to find oscillating or muddy sounding power amplifier.
So you can hear effects of those by products.

Adding few Points or my understanding
Mono is the original or take it as nature which is recorded in digital format for various manipulation like, 2.1,5.1,7.1 so Onnnn..
[Below is OT, please forgive me.]
If you observe then mono was our technological incapability till we got stereo invented. Because everybody who has ears, are always one pair, not 2.1, 5.1 and 7.1 etc. Why?
Because sound reaches to both ears and there is minute difference in reception of both ears. The received wave at each ear traveled different path. Hence brain calculates phase difference and third dimension i.e. direction of sound source without 5.1 and 7.1.
Hence the equipment goes to 2.1, 5.1, 7.1 kind of short cut because they could not preserve the original sound reproduction as might have received by pair of ears in live performance or they want those effect to feel (fool) our brain for calculating direction. So stereo is natural provided recording is done correctly and reproduced correctly. There are people claim imaging, wide stage etc etc. I see its evident.
 
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@omishra
Yep, thats why I feel like for nuances like this, you need to have harmony amongst the equipments(prefer active systems?).
I was asking for other byproducts like lost 2-3bits of information, quantization errors, slight compression of dynamic range etc.

For me 320kbps MP3 is as good as FLAC. There is very minute difference between the two. And to discern it, repeated listening, same material and ideal environment is required.

People have used recorded animal calls and replayed it back to trick animals, and it works!
 
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Thanks,
For digital, as I said, for low sampling rate affects HF >10KHz, LF is not impacted. You can hear harsh, or too sharp high or lost. Variable and high sampling rates (like Tripath) are sure near to audiophile but discrete class-D are dull sounding. For analog it is easy to find oscillating or muddy sounding power amplifier.
So you can hear effects of those by products.


[Below is OT, please forgive me.]
If you observe then mono was our technological incapability till we got stereo invented. Because everybody who has ears, are always one pair, not 2.1, 5.1 and 7.1 etc. Why?
Because sound reaches to both ears and there is minute difference in reception of both ears. The received wave at each ear traveled different path. Hence brain calculates phase difference and third dimension i.e. direction of sound source without 5.1 and 7.1.
Hence the equipment goes to 2.1, 5.1, 7.1 kind of short cut because they could not preserve the original sound reproduction as might have received by pair of ears in live performance or they was those effect to feel (fool) our brain for calculating direction. So stereo is natural provided recording is done correctly. There people claim imaging, wide stage etc etc.

Thanks for the Comment, BTW Sound after reproduced(Player,Amps and Delivering in Speakers) can be termed as Stereo, but Original Sound is in MONO, and this was i tied to explained, (Hope should have used different words) As i haven't hear any top singer doing live show at Stereo Effect.:)

Live=Original=MONO, But ears are Stereo:)
 
Thanks for the Comment, BTW Sound after reproduced(Player,Amps and Delivering in Speakers) can be termed as Stereo, but Original Sound is in MONO, and this was i tied to explained,

...

Live=Original=MONO, But ears are Stereo:)

Good point! So in theory would (or can) a mono recording have the cues that make it as realistic as the original?

--G
 
Thanks for the Comment, BTW Sound after reproduced(Player,Amps and Delivering in Speakers) can be termed as Stereo, but Original Sound is in MONO, and this was i tied to explained, (Hope should have used different words) As i haven't hear any top singer doing live show at Stereo Effect.:)

Live=Original=MONO, But ears are Stereo:)

Yes, you are correct, Live is mono, stereo is for creating image or depicting direction for each sound. But mono speaker channel won't let me do that.
 
Yes, you are correct, Live is mono, stereo is for creating image or depicting direction for each sound. But mono speaker channel won't let me do that.

Exactly...i have some Mono recordings on CD they sound very good although there is no image..so you cannot really visualise the music.
does not mean you cant enjoy it, but it does take some part of the fun out

and regarding sound..Analogue sounding is Good Digital sounding is not fun...but there are many digital equipment which sound analogue like.
I do not think this realates to any other component than a source..an amp or speaker can never be digital sounding (unless they suck majorly !)

The way i understand it, Digital sounding would mean that you can feel that the music was chopped up into little pieces and then put back again (to varying degrees from blatantly obvious to subtle). analogue would be the opposite :)
 
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...So digitising one's vinyls in one's home using non-pro devices, and doing an A/B with a professionally made CD, is not fair and puts too much onus on one's limited skills and limited equipment. The whole advice is valid if one has a high standard rig at home that will do as good a job as a professional rig. And the do-er knows what he is doing.
Actually, the opposite is true. To begin with, even low-price sound cards give amazingly good results (refer one of Ethan Winer's audio experiments). My budget would be aprox 8,000 to 16,000 for a sound card: the fact that I would happily spend more if I had it is as much gadgetphilia as audophilia! Many, many people with demanding ears are happy with the results that they get digitising LPs.

Don't overestimate the skill involved. The skill and patience comes in cleaning up the result of digitising old vinyl. Possibly, having connected the right things in the right way, the only skill really necessary to digitise clean vinyl is knowing that the wave mustn't hit 0dB. Probably easier than the old days of putting stuff on tapes and cassettes.

You at home set out to digitise an LP. The result that you want is something that sounds as like the LP as possible. Ideally, you don't want to be able to tell the difference at all. You digitise, you listen, you check. Hopefully you are happy.

The mastering engineers may indeed know vastly more about sound and the equipment that they use, but their criteria is not necessarily the same. As has been said over and over, many CDs of the "same" album are simply not the same: they have been remastered.

You can also make your digital recordings at 24/96, or even higher if you have the equipment and believe that it makes a difference. Even I do that, because, though I can not tell the difference because, one day, someone might listen who can, all it costs is disk space, and hey, why shouldn't I keep the local bats happy? :)

No, we cannot take old master tapes, doctor and restore, remix and remaster them --- but yes indeed, we can make entirely satisfying, if not identical, digital copies of our vinyl or tape.



PS: I am still not clear what Clearcut is trying to understand. Is it difference between analog and digital amplification? Or is it analog music format versus digital music format? Or what??:)
Amplifier, I think... so we are following two subjects in this thread. Now I have to go back and see the posts about amplifiers

Well I didn't have an audiophile nit-pickers approach in mind when I said that, rather one of a consumer of music CD's who just wants to go about living life enjoying the substance of the music on a day to day basis, and not get neurotic about the gear or source material.
Ahh... that would be why you are carrying equipment around and doing AB testing, eh? :lol: Sound like audiophilia to me. Sounds like healthy audiophilia :)

Remaining 2% have joined HFV. :lol:
And are arguing endlessly:lol::lol::lol:

:lol: ...But the two percent includes those who are interested in the whole thing :)

Sound after reproduced(Player,Amps and Delivering in Speakers) can be termed as Stereo, but Original Sound is in MONO, and this was i tied to explained, (Hope should have used different words) As i haven't hear any top singer doing live show at Stereo Effect.:)

Live=Original=MONO, But ears are Stereo:)

Wrong word maybe? If you are listening to a single instrument/voice/point of sound then maybe you could describe it as "mono," but even then, you are only able to locate it with your eyes shut because you are listening in stereo.

Stereo sound reproduction is a brilliant and wonderful illusion. But we do not live in a mono world.
 
Thad ! my friend, I havent bashed the digital format here, I'm just saying Vinyl has done more justice to songs that i listen to, the pre 90s rock and heavy metal.
If comparing the LP and CD commercial releases then, for reasons stated, you could well be right.
Will surely convert a vinyl or two into the digital format and get back to you with how it felt!
Please do :)
Let me ask you something, let us take a simple musical instrument, the drums.. There are so many electronic drumkits available which can reproduce drum tones from entry level Mapex kits to high end DW kits. People still prefer buying the good old drum kit with the big toms and kick drum, they do know its loud and takes up a lot of space and difficult to manage.
This is doing what I said: taking one thing and using it as an argument in a different context, and it is not logically valid to conclude...
...there are certain things that just cannot be digitized.
There may very well be instruments where a wholly satisfactory electronic version is not yet available and maybe never will be. Different argument. Arguing that digital cannot make all the sounds that analogue can is not the same as arguing that digital can or cannot record all the sounds that human ears can hear.

Same are the thoughts I have for vinyl, there is a specific warmth in the tonality of the sound, at least in the 40 odd vinyls I listened to, and I do have the digital versions of most of them and I would always prefer the pops and crackles from the vinyl to the digital music anyday..
Do try the digitising. I don't think it will take that warmth away --- although I do not, as already said, suggest that you are wrong to be dissatisfied with the CDs.


By the way, I had an interesting experience recently with a Manfred Man album (Budapest). I have had the LP for a long time and played it many times. These days I do not have a TT as part of my hifi (space as much as anything: I certainly wouldn't mind) but occasionally digitise. I am very happy listening to my digitised files. More recently, I got a FLAC version of the CD. No: it is not the same! You might well say that it lacks warmth, because I would say that it was cool. At first, I have to say that I did not like it, but I kept listening, and in doing so, I realised that the detail is really great, and, for someone who likes to listen to the detail in music it is great. Now I chose it over the vinyl version, and not just for the lack of crackles.
 
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Yes, you are correct, Live is mono, stereo is for creating image or depicting direction for each sound. But mono speaker channel won't let me do that.

Am Audiophile and Listen to Music the most(Audio form) instead of Video or(Vedio+Audio) also am not more into Movies.

After the Visualization entered into market or Started Era we tend to enjoy the music with video,its seems difference experience and normal human we love the diff in formats and changes:ohyeah:

still we have a big bang Groups looking for TT,LP so on even in 11.2 version market or trend,there should be something special in it isnt?

Conclusion-- If you like music move to MONO enjoy,u like Music+Vedio go for Stereo, and 5.1< for movies...and each have advantage and disadvantage too:ohyeah:
 
Yes,Mono records the Original, If you can understand the reason why Digital or stereo has over took MONO market is ,MONO's originality.

LP covers all the frequencies which are disturb the atmosphere air and creates sound waves. so there was lot of distortion or unwanted sound heard while reproducing the same in device.
But in Cassettes and later CD or DVD the frequencies were been limited or filtered as part of compressing algorithm and delivered with Clear sound(Sound we actually like to hear)

I have a good friend who was working in audio recording store and complains that the Punches and original voice are really corrupted after Stereo has been introduced
 
Ahh... that would be why you are carrying equipment around and doing AB testing, eh? :lol: Sound like audiophilia to me. Sounds like healthy audiophilia :)

It was just an innocent desire to compare how the famous Shiggy compares to Vinyl. :o

One thing I noticed in the CD track - the lows and highs were artificially enhanced in the source recording to give the illusion of punch or impact. Remember the Shigaraki is a laid back relaxed sounding DAC so it is not adding this effect. The digital copies are being doctored. Not that vinyl sounded less pleasing because lows and highs were not artificially enhanced. It was the opposite. Forget mp3 or lossy formats - Even the redbook format was sounding compressed compared to analog LP.

Wrong word maybe? If you are listening to a single instrument/voice/point of sound then maybe you could describe it as "mono," but even then, you are only able to locate it with your eyes shut because you are listening in stereo.

Stereo sound reproduction is a brilliant and wonderful illusion. But we do not live in a mono world.

But if the source is mono like a guitar or any other instrument - why can't a human pick the stereo cues from two ears with a mono recording like for real world sound?


--G
 
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I don't doubt that CD is doctored. I don't doubt also that many LP mixes are doctored too. It may well be that some CD re-issues, as mentioned are doctored in ways which are very unpleasing to music lovers.

I'm utterly baffled by the sudden appearance of mono in the conversation. Lets throw half our speakers away, set the balance control full to the remaining speaker ... and enjoy our "natural" sound :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Dear all,
I guess we are mixing things up. We need stereo to bring out the realism of live music event. As mostly we not only hear vocals but accompanying instruments too. Stereo image on Hifi system defines the position of each. Any album producer or recording engineer worth his salt would use different type of (single or multiple) mics to record the song and master it faithfully for stereo playback. Almost all modern recording are stereo and it makes no sense to make them mono as important information may get cancelled. I think people like mono because as Audio_Freek said vocals are mono and singer may be the most important criteria of listening, recording+reproduction is easy and mono recording doesn't need much room treatment. Would also like to add unless hardware is 'high end' it makes no sense to digitize the analogue vinyl.
There is vast discussion going on in the net about the difference between digital and analogue sound. I have belcanto pre one and belcanto 200.2 power amp. Which is class d digital amplifier i suppose. I have other amplifiers in class ab. Using them i am at a loss for a word to describe the differencee. But while using belcanto i feel utter silence. That there is no back ground noise. Instruments are sharp and decay fast. In analogue i feel little back ground noise and some kind of edgy feeling in every music. So i could not express what is the difference in it. I would be thank ful if audiophile friends could explain the difference what are the pros and cons of the above two. In tube and solid state i am sure ss has more dynamism. Extended highs and lows but muddy mids. But in the case of tube ( i have used ayon orion) not too high end. I felt extraordinary mids but missed fine highs and extended lows. But the difference between the analogue and the digital i am struggling to express my feeling pl help me thanks.
Utter silence may be due to the way digital amplifier works (digital representation of the signal by PWM based amplifier (Class D)) where as Class A/B amp uses SS devices (Pre and power) which may be the source of noise and distortion. Not sure though.
As for tone quality of low, mids and high it may depend on topology and making of the amplifier. If you have both enjoy them both. Indian Classicals sound good on tube gear, in my opinion.
Regards
 
Am Audiophile and Listen to Music the most(Audio form) instead of Video or(Vedio+Audio) also am not more into Movies.

After the Visualization entered into market or Started Era we tend to enjoy the music with video,its seems difference experience and normal human we love the diff in formats and changes:ohyeah:

still we have a big bang Groups looking for TT,LP so on even in 11.2 version market or trend,there should be something special in it isnt?

Conclusion-- If you like music move to MONO enjoy,u like Music+Vedio go for Stereo, and 5.1< for movies...and each have advantage and disadvantage too:ohyeah:
Dear, I think somehow you did escape Thad' post above regarding imaging. I am not talking of video imaging. I too have a basic stereo system with an little respectable TT and small-time LP collection. But my listening does not involve video. I mean virtual image of stage which I get to realize with pair of speakers, only with speakers.
If amplifier or any component in the chain alters that signal then that realization won't come as originality of audio is lost. I am not fan of MP3 though I have few CDs which I listen too.
 
TLive=Original=MONO, But ears are Stereo:)
When I read this, I thought there is something wrong in the statement. Thad explained brilliantly.

Wrong word maybe? If you are listening to a single instrument/voice/point of sound then maybe you could describe it as "mono," but even then, you are only able to locate it with your eyes shut because you are listening in stereo.

How is live mono? :confused: We are hearing to the live event with our two ears and the sound reaches each of them at different times, depending the location of each of the instruments making the sound. Our brain processes this differences and provides directional ques for us to locate the source of sound. Stereophonic sound reproduction is a method of recreating an illusion of the original event in three dimensions.

Definition of stereo (Source: wikipedia)
Stereophonic sound or, more commonly, stereo, is a method of sound reproduction that creates an illusion of directionality and audible perspective. This is usually achieved by using two or more independent audio channels through a configuration of two or more loudspeakers in such a way as to create the impression of sound heard from various directions, as in natural hearing.[1] Thus the term "stereophonic" applies to so-called "quadraphonic" and "surround-sound" systems as well as the more common 2-channel, 2-speaker systems.

The method of making stereo track:
During two-channel stereo recording, two microphones are placed in strategically chosen locations relative to the sound source, with both recording simultaneously. The two recorded channels will be similar, but each will have distinct time-of-arrival and sound-pressure-level information. During playback, the listener's brain uses those subtle differences in timing and sound level to triangulate the positions of the recorded objects.

Another good explanation: Sound Systems: Mono vs. Stereo
 
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If live were mono, we would never be identify the source of a sound with our eyes ..that would make life tough !

Cd vs LP is complicated. In the end it depends on the recording..very often lps are said to be superior as the basic analogue recording was better and when digitized it was done badly !
I doubt if anyone could make out the difference on a really well recorded cd playing on a good setup


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