Crown Power Amp owners / Specially for integration in HT setup

[ankitbhargava]

Got my Marantz 7010 back from the repairs. Connected the Crown XLS 2502. I can now tell for sure that the Marantz is not giving the Crowns the voltage it needs. I tried placing my DAC and my tube-pre amp after the pre from the Marantz. Was not satisfied with the results. Music was not sounding the way I liked it. For my room, at my listening levels, I found that the Crown XLS 2502 were not required, The Marantz on it's own was good enough to give me the immersion needed to watch movies. I am now using the Crown XLS 2502 for 2 channel listening. The Zen DAC and the FX Audio tube pre give the Crown enough voltage to make them play loud effortlessly. Music sounds lovely through them.

Upon your recommendation I connected Crown 1502 again (had it box packed) and I realised that I was already using it at 0.775 Vrs
Something is definitely not working with Marantz AVR + Crown, as I mentioned in my review after testing Crown... I couldn't convince myself that its was a good addition. AVR was producing better results on its own for Movies.

Now when I added Emotiva XPA5, I could immediately tell what a suitable Power Amp can change into your setup. It was magic right from first moment.

 

[ankitbhargava]

You have pretty decent equipment. You might need to play around with it to get the sound that you seek. Your room also probably need to be made sound friendly. My personal opinion, you are not going to see a huge improvement by changing your power amp.

I did see a huge improvement after switching to Emotiva XPA5, moreover I also changed my Surround L&R to Klipsch (more capable and louder) and trust me .. I shall be proud to offer anyone on this forum a demo if they are visiting Udaipur. I am more than happy with my setup now because even OTT content is sounding really really good.

 

[ssf]

Upon your recommendation I connected Crown 1502 again (had it box packed) and I realised that I was already using it at 0.775 Vrs
Something is definitely not working with Marantz AVR + Crown, as I mentioned in my review after testing Crown... I couldn't convince myself that its was a good addition. AVR was producing better results on its own for Movies.

Now when I added Emotiva XPA5, I could immediately tell what a suitable Power Amp can change into your setup. It was magic right from first moment.

I don't see anything wrong with the Crowns, per se. Using it in a HT environment could pose some challenges but I feel this could be overcome with a bit of an effort. I also feel that introducing just one power amp into the HT setup would not bring much benefits. Powering 5 channels with the Crowns could bring a much bigger improvement.

But yes, the easier albeit a more expensive way to go is the Emotiva way.

 

[ankitbhargava]

I don't see anything wrong with the Crowns, per se. Using it in a HT environment could pose some challenges but I feel this could be overcome with a bit of an effort. I also feel that introducing just one power amp into the HT setup would not bring much benefits. Powering 5 channels with the Crowns could bring a much bigger improvement.

But yes, the easier albeit a more expensive way to go is the Emotiva way.

I am so keen to test the 5 channels using Crown
I would really want someone to do it or if I get opportunity I will do it.
There couldn't be a better way to setup an amazing HT with less expensive Power Amps.

Another important point which I wanted to mention crown vs emotiva is dynamics.
Most of us opting for Power Amp for HT setup may not be aiming more loudness but more dynamics (this is more complicated when the content is OTT).

My observation is,
Emotiva brought in several sound effects (watching Movies on Netflix) more emphatically which I always missed while powering fronts or center using AVR and when tested with Crown. There are scenes which I have watched probably more than 500 times and I can definitely say what changed and if its good or bad.

After adding better surrounds (my Room is large and I now realised that I was majorly missing on loudness + dynamics from surrounds) and powering them with Emotiva, the surrounds are ALIVE.

I really wish I had sufficient Crowns to test all 5 together

 

[skumar]

...I also feel that introducing just one power amp into the HT setup would not bring much benefits. Powering 5 channels with the Crowns could bring a much bigger improvement....But yes, the easier albeit a more expensive way to go is the Emotiva way.

Emotiva BASX A-500, a 5ch amp (80w all ch driven?) may be an option, cost may be in the same range compared to having 2 or 3 crown amps to drive the 5ch HT.

 

[ssf]

Emotiva BASX A-500, a 5ch amp (80w all ch driven?) may be an option, cost may be in the same range compared to having 2 or 3 crown amps to drive the 5ch HT.

Definitely an option. But I still feel that unless the room is quite large and one likes to listen very loud, a good receiver like the Marantz 7xxx series would not require a power amp. I was testing my receiver with my Spectre Blue ray CD, in the scene at the beginning of the movie where the building crumbles around Bond, I almost got a heart attack. The receiver volume was at -15 DB !!! Audyssey has done a great job this time. Quite a flat setting for a great HT experience.

I have two crown 2502 amps. If I set it up for fronts and centre, I will post my impressions. But for now, I have given one crown to my BIL.

 

[fLUX]

Got my Marantz 7010 back from the repairs. Connected the Crown XLS 2502. I can now tell for sure that the Marantz is not giving the Crowns the voltage it needs. I tried placing my DAC and my tube-pre amp after the pre from the Marantz. Was not satisfied with the results. Music was not sounding the way I liked it. For my room, at my listening levels, I found that the Crown XLS 2502 were not required, The Marantz on it's own was good enough to give me the immersion needed to watch movies. I am now using the Crown XLS 2502 for 2 channel listening. The Zen DAC and the FX Audio tube pre give the Crown enough voltage to make them play loud effortlessly. Music sounds lovely through them.

Had a similar observation when I had done this experiment (did not introduce anything in the AVR chain) quiet some time back with Dynaudio Emit M20 via three chains
i) AVR - Crown XLS 2502 - M20 : Sounded better than just using the AVR due to the additional power available but was not pleasing by any means, the PM8006 did a much better job in the musicality department
ii) Hiby R6 Pro DAP Lineout -> Crown XLS2502 - M20 : Sounded many folds better than the AVR , bass was revealing, mids were good but dynamics was slightly lacking
iii) Hiby R6 Pro DAP Lineout -> PM 8006 as pre -> XLS2502 -> M20 : This was the best I had heard the M20 sing , spacious sounding, such lushful vocals and sweet treble.

A good dac combined with a pre certainly makes a huge difference for a separates based stereo setup.

 

[samgurung]

Got my Marantz 7010 back from the repairs. Connected the Crown XLS 2502. I can now tell for sure that the Marantz is not giving the Crowns the voltage it needs. I tried placing my DAC and my tube-pre amp after the pre from the Marantz. Was not satisfied with the results. Music was not sounding the way I liked it. For my room, at my listening levels, I found that the Crown XLS 2502 were not required, The Marantz on it's own was good enough to give me the immersion needed to watch movies. I am now using the Crown XLS 2502 for 2 channel listening. The Zen DAC and the FX Audio tube pre give the Crown enough voltage to make them play loud effortlessly. Music sounds lovely through them.

On reading this, I came up with an idea. I dont own a pre-amp but I do have the ibasso dc03 usb dac/amp. I connected that to my mac and took a 3.5mm to rca cable and connected the output of the dc03 to the crown. OMG!!!! Night and day difference in SQ compared to using the marantz AVRs preouts. The gain knob on the crown is set to the 9 O'clock and I have room filling music from my bookshelves. Never got that kind of sound even at almost full gain level when using the crown connected to the AVR. And the most striking thing was the bass output from the Elacs. I did not even notice that I was not using my two subwoofers anymore. In short MIND BLOWN!!! . It was stunning....

So now my question is how do I integrate a decent pre-amp into the chain (that would supply enough power to the crown) for both music and movies while still making use of the AVR for surrounds and sub-woofer and for all this to work seamlessly.

Would appreciate any ideas!. Thank you for all the inputs. The experience today with the crowns was quite an eye ( or ear??? ) opener.

 

[skumar]

...I still feel that unless the room is quite large and one likes to listen very loud, a good receiver like the Marantz 7xxx series would not require a power amp....

The feeling is mutual, I am pretty happy with my AVR for HT, it is just that itch to find out if a separate amp can take it to the next level...
I guess this is what moves mankind forward, that itch...

 

[ssf]

So now my question is how do I integrate a decent pre-amp into the chain (that would supply enough power to the crown) for both music and movies while still making use of the AVR for surrounds and sub-woofer and for all this to work seamlessly.

Would appreciate any ideas!. Thank you for all the inputs. The experience today with the crowns was quite an eye ( or ear??? ) opener.

I connected my FX-Audio Tube preamp to the preamp of the Marantz once again to re-check. (The crown connected to the tube preamp
Marantz pre -> FX-Audio Tube Pre -> crown power) I did not do the Audyssey calibration which needs to be done if one is going to go permanently with this chain.

Pick any preamp that you like and connect it this way and it should work better than with just the preamp out from the Marantz. The FX-Audio preamp is quite laid back, so this combination might not suit all speakers. My Wharfdale D225 which is a laid back speaker to start with gets even more so with this combo. The Quad S2's are a better match for this chain but even then, some of the sparkles and airiness of the S2's top end are lost with this combination.

But playing around with different combinations gives me a chance to listen to different kinds of sound which I enjoy.

 

[Ramanuj]

The older Crowns like a DC300 or DC300 II are excellent value for money and great for HT setups. In stereo they are great too but lacks finesse and subtlety but then that's not what they are made for either.

 

[samgurung]

I connected my FX-Audio Tube preamp to the preamp of the Marantz once again to re-check. (The crown connected to the tube preamp
Marantz pre -> FX-Audio Tube Pre -> crown power) I did not do the Audyssey calibration which needs to be done if one is going to go permanently with this chain.

Pick any preamp that you like and connect it this way and it should work better than with just the preamp out from the Marantz. The FX-Audio preamp is quite laid back, so this combination might not suit all speakers. My Wharfdale D225 which is a laid back speaker to start with gets even more so with this combo. The Quad S2's are a better match for this chain but even then, some of the sparkles and airiness of the S2's top end are lost with this combination.

But playing around with different combinations gives me a chance to listen to different kinds of sound which I enjoy.

Thank you so much for your inputs. Will consider adding a preamp to the chain and see if that is satisfactory..

 

[ssf]

I connected my two Crown 2502's to the center channel and the front left and right channels of my Marantz 7010 without using any preamps. Gain in both the crowns set to 2 O'Clock. Ran the Audyssey calibration. It set the front and center levels to +7. I would ideally love to have this close to the 0 mark. But as long as Audyssey is not setting the level to +12, I think it should be ok.

I have done detailed testing but as of now, it sounds good. My receiver was getting heated up so I will leave the power amps connected for a while.

@samgurung Please run the Audyssey calibration after connecting the power amp. You might not need a pre-amp in between as long as the levels are not set to 12.

The preamp might only be needed if you are not getting enough power in Direct / pure direct mode for music.

 

[ssf]

Was jobless today, nursing a cold and a bit of fever so got down to some further testing of the Marantz and Crown in pure direct mode. Put in the crowns and depth and output is reduced by more than 50%. Switched back to the Marantz amp and the beautiful depth and sound was back again. Mind you, this is not a issue with the Crown but the issue is with the Marantz pre and the crown. So yes, definitely need a voltage boost if one wants to use the Crowns with the Marantz in direct / pure direct.

 

[samgurung]

I connected my two Crown 2502's to the center channel and the front left and right channels of my Marantz 7010 without using any preamps. Gain in both the crowns set to 2 O'Clock. Ran the Audyssey calibration. It set the front and center levels to +7. I would ideally love to have this close to the 0 mark. But as long as Audyssey is not setting the level to +12, I think it should be ok.

I have done detailed testing but as of now, it sounds good. My receiver was getting heated up so I will leave the power amps connected for a while.

@samgurung Please run the Audyssey calibration after connecting the power amp. You might not need a pre-amp in between as long as the levels are not set to 12.

The preamp might only be needed if you are not getting enough power in Direct / pure direct mode for music.

Will give this a try in the evening.. Thanks!

 

[samgurung]

Was jobless today, nursing a cold and a bit of fever so got down to some further testing of the Marantz and Crown in pure direct mode. Put in the crowns and depth and output is reduced by more than 50%. Switched back to the Marantz amp and the beautiful depth and sound was back again. Mind you, this is not a issue with the Crown but the issue is with the Marantz pre and the crown. So yes, definitely need a voltage boost if one wants to use the Crowns with the Marantz in direct / pure direct.

Wonder how what percentage gain will one get by introducing a pre-amp into the chain.

 

[samgurung]

Connecting the output of the dac to the crown produces beautiful sound. Wide, deep, detailed and plenty loud! The marantz pre-amp is quite a bummer

 

[fLUX]

Connecting the output of the dac to the crown produces beautiful sound. Wide, deep, detailed and plenty loud! The marantz pre-amp is quite a bummer

On reading this, I came up with an idea. I dont own a pre-amp but I do have the ibasso dc03 usb dac/amp. I connected that to my mac and took a 3.5mm to rca cable and connected the output of the dc03 to the crown. OMG!!!! Night and day difference in SQ compared to using the marantz AVRs preouts. The gain knob on the crown is set to the 9 O'clock and I have room filling music from my bookshelves. Never got that kind of sound even at almost full gain level when using the crown connected to the AVR. And the most striking thing was the bass output from the Elacs. I did not even notice that I was not using my two subwoofers anymore. In short MIND BLOWN!!! . It was stunning....

So now my question is how do I integrate a decent pre-amp into the chain (that would supply enough power to the crown) for both music and movies while still making use of the AVR for surrounds and sub-woofer and for all this to work seamlessly.

Would appreciate any ideas!. Thank you for all the inputs. The experience today with the crowns was quite an eye ( or ear??? ) opener.

Ideally you would need a preout with a HT bypass function which basically means there would be two connections to the preamp
i) Preout of AVR -> HT bypass input on your preamp -> Preamp out -> Power Amp
ii) Preout/Lineout;/3.5mm output of your source (DAC/Steamer etc) -> RCA input on preamp -> Preamp out -> Power Amp

When using the fronts for HT you just need to keep your preamp off ( or in some cases change source to HT Bypass) and when using for music change preamp source to the RCA input where you have connected your dac/dap/streamer.

However preamps with HT Bypass would likely cost you a decent amount in India (40k+ for new one/25k+ from US). Alternatively you can use a dac/amp with pre-out functionality and buy a schiit sys (which is a passive switch, should cost you about 5k odd if you are able to source one here). You can connect your dac/amp pre as one input and ht preamp as another input to the schiit sys and manually switch using a button between the two.

 

[srinisundar]

Saw the crown amps and had few minutes of listening on a Clubhouse theatre and it sounded good for the huge space.

 

[Amarendra]

Was power the problem at all in the equation or was it that you liked the SQ
of Emotiva above your AVR and Crown ?
The reason i asked was I had also experimented by adding a Rotel to my AVR but in the end I realised that the difference was on account of a more likable SQ. Then came measurements with a smart plug which showed that AVR had enough juice to power all speakers (Denon 2500H) it was just that I was more fond of the Rotel SQ.