Crown XLS 2502 vs Emotiva

[dextrostar]

while I have an NR1509 as well, I have not tried it with any other amp as it's in a bedroom system. Maybe check out the manual for output levels. my understanding from internet reviews is most AVRs dont give high output from the pre-out. what speakers will you be using?

What speakers are you driving with the NR1509?

 

[dextrostar]

This is true even for my Marantz 7010. The gain on the crowns have to be kept at 3 O'clock for it to work as intended. This will raise the noise floor.


Yes, it will work. Keep the input sensitivity on the Crowns at .775v and the gain at 3 O'clock.

Thank you for confirming this. Saw this in quite of lot of reviews. Only concern is why is the price of XLS half of even Emotiva A series...forget about XPA series.

If @kapvin can let me know his setup with the Marantz and if I like it...I might ditch the Crown and just upgrade the speakers.

 

[kapvin]

What speakers are you driving with the NR1509?

Its in my Signature. B&W MT55 with the ASW610 10" sub. this is a room 12' x16' and primarily movies / video streaming

Home Theater | Bowers & Wilkins

Enjoy the ultimate home entertainment experience in the comfort of your room with Bowers & Wilkins home theater products.

www.bowerswilkins.com

 

[dextrostar]

Its in my Signature. B&W MT55 with the ASW610 10" sub. this is a room 12' x16' and primarily movies / video streaming

Home Theater | Bowers & Wilkins

Enjoy the ultimate home entertainment experience in the comfort of your room with Bowers & Wilkins home theater products.

www.bowerswilkins.com

Wow... amazing speakers but nuts out of my range. I am considering Fyne audio F302, Dali spektor 6, Qacoustics 3050i. Not sure if NR1509 can drive them which has only 50w 2 ch driven power.
Somewhere I read that it's not always in the wattage of the amp however this is still a very basic AVR.
Asking for some inputs from experienced FMs
@MaSh @ssf @fLUX @raghupb

 

[ssf]

Wow... amazing speakers but nuts out of my range. I am considering Fyne audio F302, Dali spektor 6, Qacoustics 3050i. Not sure if NR1509 can drive them which has only 50w 2 ch driven power.
Somewhere I read that it's not always in the wattage of the amp however this is still a very basic AVR.
Asking for some inputs from experienced FMs
@MaSh @ssf @fLUX @raghupb

Sensitivity rating of the 3 speakers: (Higher the better)
1. Fyne - 90 DB
2. Dali - 88.5 DB
3. Q Acoustics 91 DB

All of them are easy to drive speakers on paper. Why don't you listen to the speakers, buy what you like to use with the Marantz ? If at all you feel that you are not happy with the power, you can always add a power amp later.

Only concern is why is the price of XLS half of even Emotiva A series...forget about XPA series.

The price of the Crowns for what they deliver is what makes them a very popular choice.

 

[dextrostar]

Sensitivity rating of the 3 speakers: (Higher the better)
1. Fyne - 90 DB
2. Dali - 88.5 DB
3. Q Acoustics 91 DB

All of them are easy to drive speakers on paper. Why don't you listen to the speakers, buy what you like to use with the Marantz ? If at all you feel that you are not happy with the power, you can always add a power amp later.

The price of the Crowns for what they deliver is what makes them a very popular choice.

Thanks a lot for your advice.
I do have a chance to audition the Fyne and Dali. I don't really like to travel around much auditioning so if I have to decide will be on the first go.
Let's see how it pans out and I believe the Crown might have to be worn by the setup as am planning to move the current BA FS to the rear by adjusting the levels.

 

[kapvin]

Wow... amazing speakers but nuts out of my range. I am considering Fyne audio F302, Dali spektor 6, Qacoustics 3050i. Not sure if NR1509 can drive them which has only 50w 2 ch driven power.
Somewhere I read that it's not always in the wattage of the amp however this is still a very basic AVR.
Asking for some inputs from experienced FMs
@MaSh @ssf @fLUX @raghupb

on the NR1509, I have only nice things to say. I previously had a Denon 1611 which worked wonderfully till one day the HDMI Circuitry stopped working. I used the a500 with an emotiva pre pro for some time, but I got pushback from my wife about how unnecessarily complicated it was for a bedroom system. I remember having doubts about the Marantz, which was rated far below the Denon, and asking Anil at Hifi mart about its ability.
His conviction about the unit was persuasive, I have purchased this and not had a moment's regret.

In fact I liked it so much, I purchased another for my parents in Bangalore. Since the speakers needed an upgrade I also purchased the Wharfedale DX-1S 5.1 package along with it. Same amp different speakers. there is chalk and cheese difference. the Wharfedale sound fine on their own, but there is absolutely no comparison with the B&W.

My learnings -

1. A Good sub makes all the difference, especially with Sat-subs. (the ASW610 is an overachiever, sealed, deep deep bass and no overhang)
2. in most cases, your loud listening volume is using up 4-5w of power. the difference between 5w and the max of 50w is basically allowing for dynamics (10dB in the case). moving from 50w - 500w gives you another 10dB more headroom. moving to more efficient speakers is almost always like getting a free amp upgrade
3. you really cannot trust manufacturer figures for comparison. They never measure under the conditions. for eg, the B&W MT-1s are rated at 85db/w and the wharfedale Dx1SE is rated at 87dB/w. Yet the B&W is louder by far at the same volume level. (remember they are driven by identical amplifiers)

My advice to you:
buy your mains first. focus on the things that are really important to you. (i would suggest look at clarity, especially with complex polyphonic music -- most speakers can sound good with a 3 instrument ensemble.. and look at bass extension definitely) buy the least expensive good speaker that you CANNOT afford.(or the best speaker that you can) mostly you'll find it is more of an upgrade than adding an amp and middling speakers. a few years later you can buy a stronger amp and you will not feel such an urgent need to upgrade your speakers.

On a side note, I heard ex FM MPWs kit speakers. from a tonality perspective they blow almost anything that's price comparitive out of the water. Most speakers in the 80-120k range (please pardon my pungent opinion) sound like S**t. if you have a bit of courage, you may wish to explore that. I know FM @sadik has helped a lot of people get the speaker of their dreams with flawless cabinet construction. and kits are available many budget levels

Thank you for confirming this. Saw this in quite of lot of reviews. Only concern is why is the price of XLS half of even Emotiva A series...forget about XPA series.

1. the emotiva uses a torodial LPS while the Crown uses a switched power supply which is cheaper and lighter. while there can be a discussion on the merits of switched PS vs. Linear PS; important to note that the latest step up XPA series use switched
2. Crown sells in the pro audio market, where pricing is driven by actuals specs and to a small extent brand reputation, (which is driven by reliability and fidelity to specs), so it's a hyper-competitive market. Emotiva sells in the hifi market, where a cheap product is a Giffen Goods

 

[dextrostar]

on the NR1509, I have only nice things to say. I previously had a Denon 1611 which worked wonderfully till one day the HDMI Circuitry stopped working. I used the a500 with an emotiva pre pro for some time, but I got pushback from my wife about how unnecessarily complicated it was for a bedroom system. I remember having doubts about the Marantz, which was rated far below the Denon, and asking Anil at Hifi mart about its ability.
His conviction about the unit was persuasive, I have purchased this and not had a moment's regret.

In fact I liked it so much, I purchased another for my parents in Bangalore. Since the speakers needed an upgrade I also purchased the Wharfedale DX-1S 5.1 package along with it. Same amp different speakers. there is chalk and cheese difference. the Wharfedale sound fine on their own, but there is absolutely no comparison with the B&W.

My learnings -

1. A Good sub makes all the difference, especially with Sat-subs. (the ASW610 is an overachiever, sealed, deep deep bass and no overhang)
2. in most cases, your loud listening volume is using up 4-5w of power. the difference between 5w and the max of 50w is basically allowing for dynamics (10dB in the case). moving from 50w - 500w gives you another 10dB more headroom. moving to more efficient speakers is almost always like getting a free amp upgrade
3. you really cannot trust manufacturer figures for comparison. They never measure under the conditions. for eg, the B&W MT-1s are rated at 85db/w and the wharfedale Dx1SE is rated at 87dB/w. Yet the B&W is louder by far at the same volume level. (remember they are driven by identical amplifiers)

My advice to you:
buy your mains first. focus on the things that are really important to you. (i would suggest look at clarity, especially with complex polyphonic music -- most speakers can sound good with a 3 instrument ensemble.. and look at bass extension definitely) buy the least expensive good speaker that you CANNOT afford.(or the best speaker that you can) mostly you'll find it is more of an upgrade than adding an amp and middling speakers. a few years later you can buy a stronger amp and you will not feel such an urgent need to upgrade your speakers.

On a side note, I heard ex FM MPWs kit speakers. from a tonality perspective they blow almost anything that's price comparitive out of the water. Most speakers in the 80-120k range (please pardon my pungent opinion) sound like S**t. if you have a bit of courage, you may wish to explore that. I know FM @sadik has helped a lot of people get the speaker of their dreams with flawless cabinet construction. and kits are available many budget levels


1. the emotiva uses a torodial LPS while the Crown uses a switched power supply which is cheaper and lighter. while there can be a discussion on the merits of switched PS vs. Linear PS; important to note that the latest step up XPA series use switched
2. Crown sells in the pro audio market, where pricing is driven by actuals specs and to a small extent brand reputation, (which is driven by reliability and fidelity to specs), so it's a hyper-competitive market. Emotiva sells in the hifi market, where a cheap product is a Giffen Goods

Brilliant suggestions. Loved every bit of it.
My Marantz is also for the bedroom with similar room dimensions.
Initially it was paired with Wharf BS for the living room which has been upgraded satisfactorily.
I could have taken the part of your suggestion of being courageous but I did show courage few months back last year while searching for a good headphone.
Having a budget and almost having decided to get the Hifiman Sundara....ended up getting the Ananda based on feedback from good FMs like yourself.
The main issue is the itch...yes it's true that I can upgrade the amp and sub later.
If I could wait probably I can think of getting the likes of Focal FS but when the itch starts for a lesser mortal like myself it's hard.
So I guess I would have to suffice getting the best I can or cannot afford however still within that bracket you mentioned.

Thanks again for your inputs.
Cheers

 

[spirovious]

One more way is to Biamp speakers (if speakers allow). This may improve performance without need of another amp.

 

[dextrostar]

This is true even for my Marantz 7010. The gain on the crowns have to be kept at 3 O'clock for it to work as intended. This will raise the noise floor.


Yes, it will work. Keep the input sensitivity on the Crowns at .775v and the gain at 3 O'clock.

Started using the crown.
However I feel a bit of dryness in SQ as compared to when driven through the AVR.

Have you or anyone tried using filters in the crown?
I have left the FS crossover at full band.
Does using band pass filter or any other filter improve SQ?

Regards

 

[ssf]

Crown is quite a neutral amp. I don't use the DSP on the Crown but you could try it out to see for yourself if it makes a difference.

Started using the crown.
However I feel a bit of dryness in SQ as compared to when driven through the AVR.

Have you or anyone tried using filters in the crown?
I have left the FS crossover at full band.
Does using band pass filter or any other filter improve SQ?

Regards

 

[ssf]

On second thoughts, instead of using the DSP on the Crowns ( I tried just now, did not like it. There is a chance that I did not use it right though) why not use the EQ in the Marantz to try and get it to sound to your liking. Or use the Audyssey in Stereo and FS in full range and see if it makes a difference.

I think I like the crowns the best when am using my Fx Audio DP-02 as tube pre.

 

[dextrostar]

On second thoughts, instead of using the DSP on the Crowns ( I tried just now, did not like it. There is a chance that I did not use it right though) why not use the EQ in the Marantz to try and get it to sound to your liking. Or use the Audyssey in Stereo and FS in full range and see if it makes a difference.

I think I like the crowns the best when am using my Fx Audio DP-02 as tube pre.

I will give the DSP a try and play with EQ which I haven't tried yet.

 

[fLUX]

I will give the DSP a try and play with EQ which I haven't tried yet.

The common gripe I have seen for most of class D amps is that they sound little dry/sterile in comparison to Class A/AB. While I did notice that for music when using a PM8006 as pre , was not very noticeable for movies.

As recommended by @ssf adding a tube pre will introduce a fair bit of warmth in the sound and usually does wonders to the Soundstage too , do try the option.

 

[dextrostar]

The common gripe I have seen for most of class D amps is that they sound little dry/sterile in comparison to Class A/AB. While I did notice that for music when using a PM8006 as pre , was not very noticeable for movies.

As recommended by @ssf adding a tube pre will introduce a fair bit of warmth in the sound and usually does wonders to the Soundstage too , do try the option.

Thanks but adding a tube pre has to wait having invested a lot on the FS.
Maybe when the time comes for next upgrade I might look into adding a DAC instead.
Will have to weigh the options when the time comes.

 

[TomH]

It has a high noise floor as per reviews. Would show up as hiss with higher sensitivity speakers.

The Crown noise floor is low through the XLR inputs. For some reason, the RCA inputs are quiet with short plugs inserted but RCA cables connected seem to pickup noise of placed near power cords or ethernet cables (perhaps gain related?). My other amplifiers do not seem to have a problem on the RCAs. I recommend the Crown, if your preamp has XLR, balanced outputs.