DAC around INR 100k

[reignofchaos]

Never heard the DAC2 so I can't really comment on it. I just stated what I heard in the DAC1. If the Ayon wasn't there in the same room, I'd very much liked the W4S. However after the A/B, my opinion most definitely changed.

I agree that Ayons are on the warm side of neutral with a slightly rich tone. However that is what I like about them - they make all kinds of music enjoyable without being clinical.

I'd really be curious to hear how the full blown PS Audio DAC sounds like. It seems to be reasonably good value at 4000$ or so.

 

[sidvee]

I agree that Ayons are on the warm side of neutral with a slightly rich tone. However that is what I like about them - they make all kinds of music enjoyable without being clinical.

I agree. I have been spoilt by the Ayon signature. After that most of the so called neutral DAC's (including studio rated) are sounding underwhelming to me. I have heard well regarded units up until $5k, but I still prefer the Ayon's portrayal. So much so, I will be getting a skylla II soon. However I realize that sound preference is very subjective and some may prefer neutrality.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Knowing what you want and how to get it, and being able to get it makes you double-triple lucky

 

[sidvee]

Knowing what you want and how to get it, and being able to get it makes you double-triple lucky

Well said Thad! - Unfortunately being an audio enthusiast in India does require a little bit of luck at times :sad: (I don't like the term audiophile - to me it seems to imply an obessive complusive disorder). Anywho seems like things are looking up for us audiophools, what with all the excellent equipment on display/demo at the recently concluded Chennai HFV meet.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

(I don't like the term audiophile - to me it seems to imply an obessive complusive disorder).

:yahoo: :clapping: :lol:

And yes, there was some great gear on show, and seeing/listening is always a pleasure

 

[ranjeetrain]

Knowing what you want and how to get it, and being able to get it makes you double-triple lucky

I don't like the term audiophile - to me it seems to imply an obessive complusive disorder

I totally agree with those. Those are wise-words.

About audiophile; actually at times I want to disassociate myself with that term due to the kind of stereotyping the term has begun being associated with. It seems it is mandatory to sport certain traits, which don't come to me naturally, in order to be taken as an audiophile. Overall, I used to be happier with lower quality equipments, when I didn't know much about audiophile grade equipments and tweaks, than my current higher quality equipments.

In short, methinks, a true-blue music-lover (an audiofool) is almost always a happier (and more content) person than a true-blue audiophile.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Audiofool is great: audiophool perhaps not so much.

I do maintain, though, that whilst love of music is what it is about, it's just fine to be a gadget freak too.

 

[esanthosh]

• Satisfaction = Perception - Expectation.
  
• Expectation is built on exposure and experience.
  
• Best gear is the one which is least annoying for your preferences.

At least, that is how I always think. I too was happy for two years with my old Creative Zen V+ and it's stock ear bud. Once I was exposed to quality IEMs, I could never go back. I was obsessed with finding upgrades and variety (something achievable for far less money in the portable world). Once I achieved an acceptable, though far from perfect balance in terms of IEM sound signatures, I upgraded sources, amps, then finally cables. I know that there are 'better' things out there, but I have not felt the need to upgrade.

Firstly, law of diminishing returns ensures that to get that next 5-10%, I have to spend at least 2X of what I've spent thus far, otherwise I'd only be getting into smaller differences / side-grades. Secondly, since it's easier to fall into 'collection' trap here, I should be prepared for spending 8-10X eventually

I would think the path is not too dissimilar in terms of speakers, just that we are talking a few zeroes more. Once exposed to better gear and what is possible in terms of sound, it's hard to go back. I would rather watch a terrible 700MB rip of Nosferatu from Internet Archive than the full 3D, great sounding Avatar. But, I am unable to do the same with music. Certain boxes need to be checked for both music and it's reproduction before I can slip into music. More importantly, it should not check any boxes on the wrong side / check least number of boxes in the I-can-live-with-this column. I'd say my goal is not to achieve 'perfection', but to reach a stage where the gear sounds least annoying and does not intrude into the experience of listening to music.

I am not as experienced as the rest, so I may be wrong.

 

[Staxxx]

Rather than being wrong, I think it is a really perceptive post esantosh. (I could be biased, as I think of Nosferatu as one of my essential films!).

No doubt, Expectation Theory is so pertinent with the way we look at audio gear and therefore, as a rule, I refrain very often from making comments when someone has had a subjective experience which is evaluated on their own experience and expectation.

Sometimes expression of these experiences can get very dogmatic...sometimes it is a collective view mirrored through the sum of experience with members in a group. The whole matter gets far more theoretically interesting with group judgments, for example when meets take place. It's pointless to report or analyze incidents, but there are several examples here, some of which are very recent too.

The only conflict I feel is that, on the one hand, a forum makes one categorize and evaluate publically within a universe of contexts, while if one restrained, one would be left with nothing and an empty liberal mind.

I hope this lateral commentary does not does not upset anyone. It is objective to think about the usefulness of forums (outside of its social context) and, inherently, recommendations occasionally.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

esantosh, there is no need for any modesty on your part when it comes to in/on-ear listening. The final arbiter for us all, regardless of experience, is personal taste, but you have more experience by far than the average and personal taste is limited to experience. There is a huge world of IEM stuff that you move in that I know nothing about; I haven't even heard of many of those manufacturers!

 

[arj]

Rather than being wrong, I think it is a really perceptive post esantosh. (I could be biased, as I think of Nosferatu as one of my essential films!).

No doubt, Expectation Theory is so pertinent with the way we look at audio gear and therefore, as a rule, I refrain very often from making comments when someone has had a subjective experience which is evaluated on their own experience and expectation.

Sometimes expression of these experiences can get very dogmatic...sometimes it is a collective view mirrored through the sum of experience with members in a group. The whole matter gets far more theoretically interesting with group judgments, for example when meets take place. It's pointless to report or analyze incidents, but there are several examples here, some of which are very recent too.

The only conflict I feel is that, on the one hand, a forum makes one categorize and evaluate publically within a universe of contexts, while if one restrained, one would be left with nothing and an empty liberal mind.

I hope this lateral commentary does not does not upset anyone. It is objective to think about the usefulness of forums (outside of its social context) and, inherently, recommendations occasionally.

i liked your post Staxxx. this is very much on the lines if Group/crowd behaviour and very often not a simple sum but a weighted average

But i sincerely doubt if Anyone here is not a gear head..if even 10% were pure music buffs, we would have more than just 1 or two threads about music and the rest about gear !. my guess is that is less than 1%

 

[himadri]

But i sincerely doubt if Anyone here is not a gear head..if even 10% were pure music buffs, we would have more than just 1 or two threads about music and the rest about gear !. my guess is that is less than 1%

True,
Of late, I have started having a notion that most of us started out as pure music lovers but somewhere along the line we slowly got lured into taking STEROIDS in the form of audio gears and now cant RUN anymore on music alone.
cheers
PS: just a metaphor , no intentions of hurting anyone.

 

[malvai]

I know of very few 'pure' gear heads... Most gear heads are music lovers first.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I had been getting quite serious, in my mind, about the Burson Conductor. However, I wrote to them and asked if it would be ok, at least as a class-compliant device, with Linux USB, and today they replied No. That's very sad. Indeed, very bad, even.

Oh well, I really should not afford it this year, so plenty of time to choose something else.

I had no net for the past few days, so there was no point in sitting in front of the PC all night. I took my headphones over to the "hifi and sofa" end of the room and plugged them into the Cyrus amp. Playing classical music from the PC via the Squeezebox, the difference was amazing. Even without having any EQ to adjust for my ears, it still gives me so much more music. Anything missing in the treble is more than compensated for by rich presence-full bass and detailed mid.

That's the trouble with hifi: you don't know what you haven't got until you hear it! :lol:

The upside is finding out how good my A-T ADH900 headphones can sound. I can put off the desire to upgrade them for longer .

 

[ranjeetrain]

I had been getting quite serious, in my mind, about the Burson Conductor. However, I wrote to them and asked if it would be ok, at least as a class-compliant device, with Linux USB, and today they replied No. That's very sad. Indeed, very bad, even.

That's really bad if they won't work with Linux. However, in my very personal opinion, I still consider Windows better in comparison. I know this is against all the popular beliefs, I have found that after tweaking Windows becomes a very desirable operating system with lot of performance to offer.

That's the trouble with hifi: you don't know what you haven't got until you hear it! :lol:

True, very very true!!

The upside is finding out how good my A-T ADH900 headphones can sound. I can put off the desire to upgrade them for longer .

Why not post some comparo?

I auditioned a lot of Denon headphones recently. I wanted to write impressions while it was still fresh in my mind. But couldn't get around doing that.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I still consider Windows better in comparison. I know this is against all the popular beliefs

Is it? Sure, I have my reasons for having shown MS the door, but they are not primarily audio-based. I believe what I read that more recent versions of Windows are much better at handling audio than versions up to and including XP, although, frankly, I think that a pretty decent audio PC can be made with XP.

I have read occasional comments that Linux sound can be better. I don't know if there has ever been any objective comparison, or even blind A/B testing of sound from different operating systems. I'd be interested in the links if anybody does ...please.

That's really bad if they won't work with Linux.

My hunch: Burson are covering themselves. If it is a class-compliant device, it should work with Linux, even if not at the sample rates. Unless the whole damn thing just does not work without their proprietary drivers of course. But there is no way I would gamble this amount of money on a hunch.

They did say that I would be fine with S/PDIF. Well... ok... that is a possibility for the future, even if I started out with motherboard-device S/PDIF, and yes, I know most people advise against that. And I'd have to find a bracket to connect to the MB header (I'm in Singapore soon: I wonder if the digi-out headers are fairly standard, or vendor/MB-specific?)

Going around my head just now: Grace M903, Lavry DA11. Prism Lyra even, and occasional dreams of the Lynx wow-what-a-gadget Hilo.

But they will probably have to go around in my head until my next pension comes in 2017! And I am beating my head trying to find something below the 500/Rs40,000 for the nearer future.

Why not post some comparo?

I'm new to hifi headphones, this is the first pair I've ever owned, so I have nothing to compare with. I listened to Mahler's 2nd symphony last night. The finale is as close to star-wars cinema music as Western classical ever got, with low organ notes that, with wooden floors, can set a whole house shaking. My speakers, on concrete/tiled floors, don't even begin to do that, but the headphones certainly made my skull vibrate --- in the best possible way. And that does not happen when they are plugged into the PC sound interface.

I'm making an assumption: the distortion levels on the Cyrus amp are lower, so the volume can be turned up higher whilst remaining comfortable.

This is all subjective: no serious AB testing, no setting of sound levels (pretty hard with headphones! needs specialist equipment, I think) or anything like that --- but I'm just too busy surrendering to the music to even think of objective tests just now . And that, in itself, is a symptom of something good!

Going right back to the beginning of your thread:

My current benchmarks are Benchmark DAC 1 and Nuforce Icon HDP.

Those are possibles. And the Furutech GT40 remains a most interesting box...

 

[IndianEars]

himadri said:

Of late, I have started having a notion that most of us started out as pure music lovers but somewhere along the line we slowly got lured into taking STEROIDS in the form of audio gears and now cant RUN anymore on music alone.

cheers

PS: just a metaphor , no intentions of hurting anyone.

Nothing wrong with expanding one's interests and appreciation of various aspects of this hobby.

IMHO when we buy a Good Music system to listen to music, it makes us aware of the pleasures obtained from better reproduction of the sound in our home. We then also appreciate Music re-production.


It is often said that Men are initially drawn to their spouses by physical attraction.

After marriage, husbands do appreciate other aspects of their wives and build up the relation based on these other aspects too !

PS: just a metaphor , no intentions of hurting anyone.