Does a sound card act as pre amp

[s_sachin]

Thanks for the info guys.

Will try the nad 325 integrated as pre-amp today.

I was hoping I can live with the Julie@ analog out to the NAD 2400 , it just simpler

read about the level pot in bhagwan's post.
TC Electronic | Level Pilot

wonder if this is an option to consider.

 

[stereorules]

Some more info on the topic of digital volume controls ...

Some figures giving SNR of analog vs digital vol controls at different sound levels ....really interesting
PDF Link from Weiss on the problems with digital vol controls and how dithering can be used to make a good Digital Vol control
A really nice explanation on Squeezebox wiki ...

At the end of the day, you dont need to bother with these if you cant hear the difference . Stick to what your ears like .

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The volume control in windows is a digital vol control as opposed to analog vol controls like a plain pot ..It is said, as Thad pointed out, digital vol controls throw away signal ....

The volume control might be done in the player software, the OS (Windows etc), the card driver, or even on the card itself, but it is done in digital domain, ie before the signal is processed by the DAC.

What you are doing by reducing the bit depth is reducing the dynamic range. Again, a good dynamic range is something that one probably paid over the odds for in buying a decent card, rather than a cheap one or using the built in.

There are two things that can be added about this. One is that the bit depth can be increased, which allows it to be reduced by the volume control without loosing data.

The other is that ambient noise probably only allows us to hear a fraction of the dynamic range of our equipment anyway. Here's an interesting test. Coming across this made me realise, only just recently, that dynamic range is not so much about how loud one can hear, but quite the opposite: it is about how quiet the output can get and still be audible! It is seriously possible to throw away data without being hear the difference.

stereorules, crossposted... thanks for the links, which I'll read now. Still only a learner at this stuff: corrections gratefully received!

 

[s_sachin]

At the end of the day, you dont need to bother with these if you cant hear the difference . Stick to what your ears like .

stereorules - I dont hear a difference, but is there a risk of speaker damage say if the volume accidently moves to 100% or in any other way.


Otherwsie I am considering keeping the NAD 2400 for a future speaker upgrade (maybe a PSB T5/T6 from the current B6 I have). The 325 integrated (50 W) which i currently have will struggle driving those i guess.

 

[s_sachin]

Update : using the 2400 power and the 325 integrated as pre i am getting good solid bass and much more "juice" out of the PSB B6 Makes me beleive that you need to go with max watts on the amp. I am loving it thanks blasto.

 

[doors666]

I dont understand, why would reducing the volume throw away data? Do you need to throw away data to reduce the volume and its not possible without that? I can understand one OS maker (MS) or software maker using crooked logic in coding to achieve this, but is that the case with everyone? I would like to see some evidence to this claim, does not sound correct to me.

How do the hardware players handle this? What about oppo bd player. It doesnt have a pot to change the volume, not sure about this example though, can you change the volume of oppo while using analog outs. I have a marantz cd6000 ose that has volume control with a remote but no pot. Either you need a pot or a circuit like LDR to do volume control in the analog domain, or else its all digital. Most of the non super expensive wont have LDR like circuit.

This would make most of the multi channel analog out sound cards useless wont it. I have connected the analog outs of my maudio to the external multi channel out of my avr. AVR volume control is disabled in this case and pc volume control is the only option. I only use it for codecs that AVR doesn't understand, like MS codecs or aac etc, so havent done any critical comparison.

 

[corElement]

I dont understand, why would reducing the volume throw away data? Do you need to throw away data to reduce the volume and its not possible without that? I can understand one OS maker (MS) or software maker using crooked logic in coding to achieve this, but is that the case with everyone? I would like to see some evidence to this claim, does not sound correct to me.

How do the hardware players handle this? What about oppo bd player. It doesnt have a pot to change the volume, not sure about this example though, can you change the volume of oppo while using analog outs. I have a marantz cd6000 ose that has volume control with a remote but no pot. Either you need a pot or a circuit like LDR to do volume control in the analog domain, or else its all digital. Most of the non super expensive wont have LDR like circuit.

This would make most of the multi channel analog out sound cards useless wont it. I have connected the analog outs of my maudio to the external multi channel out of my avr. AVR volume control is disabled in this case and pc volume control is the only option. I only use it for codecs that AVR doesn't understand, like MS codecs or aac etc, so havent done any critical comparison.

Sorry to bring this back from oblivion but I'm with Doors on this on confusion, if digital throws away data then why are several high end amps with digital volume controls? How are remotes with no volume pots able to control volume? through resistor ladders?

Theres so many different software methods of volume control, one software does it like this, OS does it like that, how does one actually find out all this? Other than the loss of bits and volume opening at 100% what could be the other drawbacks of digital controls from something like a soundcard?

 

[CryptBala]

Sound cards are purely waste of money... Go for a dac instead.. For the same cost.. You get better sound..

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Go for a sweeping statement, at the same cost ...you can't help but be partially right! And partially wrong.

Pro-audio "sound cards?"

Remember that a sound card gives you at least twice as much for the same money. Largely depends on what a person wants: if they never ever never ever never ever ever ever want to record anything, they may feel they are wasting their money on the facility to do so.

 

[endearelale]

Joi Simison

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[LefsNime]

Certainly. I join told all above. Let's discuss this question. Here or in PM.

 

[spirovious]

Welcome LefsNime to HFV.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Currently becoming more aware of some of the multi-purpose boxes with the possibility of actually buying something in this area.

I've come to know (from HFV, of course) that there are now digital amps where we can say that the DAC does not only function as a pre-amp, it functions as an integrated amp! This is a different thing to the pre/integrateds that simply include a DAC to accommodate digital input in the same way that amplifiers of olden days used to include phono stages to accommodate turntables.

Whilst I've been drooling over stuff from Burson Audio, it (especially with other currently necessary spending plans) is out of budget and I am taking a more realistic look at Alpha Design (Furutech). The remarkable thing about the GT40 is that it includes a phono pre-amp!