Just that tags like "Proudly made in USA" or "Made in USA" or "Hand crafted in USA" sounds much better and less racist.
Now we knowKonfused will kill you for that
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emotiva?? Audiophile ?? really??
- Thread starter aminder
- Start date
Just that tags like "Proudly made in USA" or "Made in USA" or "Hand crafted in USA" sounds much better and less racist.
Psychotropic, what you say about a cycle is correct. But there are other issues here.
If you take a product life cycle, the Japanese got into car manufacturing when it was at a nascent stage. They learnt from the Americans, use their own intelligence, and constantly improved and evolved the products. The Taiwanese did the same with motherboards.
The Chinese and the Indians are fooling around with mature products, and I don't see either of the countries make their mark with any product evolution. Indians manufacture the largest number of bicycles in the world, and our basic design is yet in the 1940s. We yet manufacture an Ambassador, for heaven's sake! After how many years have the Tata's made a mark with the Nano and other vehicles. And even then the thinking is small. The Japanese dumped their cars in the US in the millions, and we are talking about 100,000 cars a year per factory.
Though we have the lead for 100cc two wheelers in the world, we are losing ground to countries such as Philippines as cost is the only factor. If we have to maintain the lead, the products have to have a brand recognition.
Maruti is the largest producer of cars in India. But they are and will always be under Suzuki's shadow.
If you are a contract manufacture you will always stay under the shadow of the main player. Companies such as Tata, HTC and other are breaking the mold. But my question is is this enough? In many cases, for global domination, the enterprise has to be helped by the country's government. I am sure the GOI is not helping any company in India. I am not sure what the Chinese government is doing.
But, at the end of the day, the companies culture makes a huge difference. What is your strategy? Do you want brand recognition? Do you want just margins? I see very few Indian and Chinese companies take a stand that will lead to domination.
Look at the kind of service you will get from a Belkin, a Toyota, a Xerox, an APC, etc. Compare that to a service you will get from the Tatas (in their home ground to boot), and any Chinese company. The Indian trader who sells Chinese goods openly accepts it is sell and run. I am not sure where such strategy will take a company.
Cheers
If you take a product life cycle, the Japanese got into car manufacturing when it was at a nascent stage. They learnt from the Americans, use their own intelligence, and constantly improved and evolved the products. The Taiwanese did the same with motherboards.
The Chinese and the Indians are fooling around with mature products, and I don't see either of the countries make their mark with any product evolution. Indians manufacture the largest number of bicycles in the world, and our basic design is yet in the 1940s. We yet manufacture an Ambassador, for heaven's sake! After how many years have the Tata's made a mark with the Nano and other vehicles. And even then the thinking is small. The Japanese dumped their cars in the US in the millions, and we are talking about 100,000 cars a year per factory.
Though we have the lead for 100cc two wheelers in the world, we are losing ground to countries such as Philippines as cost is the only factor. If we have to maintain the lead, the products have to have a brand recognition.
Maruti is the largest producer of cars in India. But they are and will always be under Suzuki's shadow.
If you are a contract manufacture you will always stay under the shadow of the main player. Companies such as Tata, HTC and other are breaking the mold. But my question is is this enough? In many cases, for global domination, the enterprise has to be helped by the country's government. I am sure the GOI is not helping any company in India. I am not sure what the Chinese government is doing.
But, at the end of the day, the companies culture makes a huge difference. What is your strategy? Do you want brand recognition? Do you want just margins? I see very few Indian and Chinese companies take a stand that will lead to domination.
Look at the kind of service you will get from a Belkin, a Toyota, a Xerox, an APC, etc. Compare that to a service you will get from the Tatas (in their home ground to boot), and any Chinese company. The Indian trader who sells Chinese goods openly accepts it is sell and run. I am not sure where such strategy will take a company.
Cheers
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Just that tags like "Proudly made in USA" or "Made in USA" or "Hand crafted in USA" sounds much better and less racist.
Now we know
do you guys know how expensive labour is in america
make no mistake when you buy anything that is american handcrafted you end up paying more for the labour than the actual electronics inside
its like umm..
how to put it
"4anna ki murgi 12 anna ka masala"
im not saying labour is not important(actually correct labour and well executed stuff is all that matters) but american labour takes it a bit too far even when compared to europe
if your ipod was handcrafted in america im sure you would be paying double!
i would much rather buy chinese handcrafted products ( but made under the srtict supervision of the parent compapny rules- something like apple or even the older mark levensions , or why not just NOKIA!)
emotiva ..well im not commenting
ive seen the insides of both the emotiva and its supposed knockoff - i dunno what came first the chicken or the egg
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Hey Santosh,
Nice to know you consider them (the Chinese) your neighbour and feel for them but as for me, I'm a Chinese hater
(in spite of my first cousin marrying a Chinese woman and residing in Hongkong for close to a decade
) Can't forget the humiliation of 1962 arising out of Nehru's Myopia (Himalayan blunder) and Krishna Menon's lack of grey matter.
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Hey Santosh,
Nice to know you consider them (the Chinese) your neighbour and feel for them but as for me, I'm a Chinese hater
Can't forget the humiliation of 1962 arising out of Nehru's Myopia (Himalayan blunder) and Krishna Menon's lack of grey matter.
Bloody clowns.
Thanks captain,for sharing opinion like me!!!!
spirovious
Well-Known Member
Just to update,
Emotiva and Sherbourn are both owned by Jade Design & so the design can be similar-
Print: Q&A: Jade Design CEO Dan Laufman - CE Pro
Please ... Apple TRIED to make their products in the U.S.A.
THEY COULD NOT DO IT. They just could not get the quality (forget volumes) they wanted.
Apple uses Foxconn because they can't get the same quality in the USA. Period.
THEY COULD NOT DO IT. They just could not get the quality (forget volumes) they wanted.
Apple uses Foxconn because they can't get the same quality in the USA. Period.
I found this excerpt very interesting from the article:
"Our real marketplace is the middle market - the step up from the mass-market product. Many clients want to step from the entry-level Asian brands to a higher quality product. And they dont want to spend the same amount of money it takes to buy a vacation home to do it.
Parasound should be filling this niche. B&K is no longer in business. [Editor's Note: B&K is actually owned by ATI and is in business.] Sunfire has ceded the market. I hate to say it, but where are the high-end Harman brands? These are the companies that should have filled the void but have not. Thats our sweet spot."
When it comes to smaller volumes, there are many small audio shops in the US that are making audio products at great price points and of really good quality - Salk, Rogue, Vapor, Selah to name a few. I'm not sure which Chinese option would give the same quality even at the same price point.
Then, there are other interesting companies like American Giant. It turns out that the overhead of American labor is not that much, given sufficient automation and sufficient thought.
I do want to say that I found this thread, old as it is, in really poor taste. Why create a thread to trash a company, that too when the OP had no personal reason to dislike the Emotiva products? Frankly, it sounded like the OP was a audio dealer of some sorts whose business was getting hit because of Emotiva, and wanted to tarnish Emotiva's name as a result. I can even get that, but the way he did it was in bad taste, IMHO. He could have very well focused on other aspects -such as the disadvantages of buying online, the benefits of buying from a dealer, etc.
For what it is worth, I have been completely satisfied with my Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp purchase. Although it has its drawbacks and I've always felt the USP-1 was a bit bright in certain frequencies, it really did open up the sound, has great soundstage, clarity, separation etc., and at the end of the day, you're getting a whole lot for your money.
"Our real marketplace is the middle market - the step up from the mass-market product. Many clients want to step from the entry-level Asian brands to a higher quality product. And they dont want to spend the same amount of money it takes to buy a vacation home to do it.
Parasound should be filling this niche. B&K is no longer in business. [Editor's Note: B&K is actually owned by ATI and is in business.] Sunfire has ceded the market. I hate to say it, but where are the high-end Harman brands? These are the companies that should have filled the void but have not. Thats our sweet spot."
When it comes to smaller volumes, there are many small audio shops in the US that are making audio products at great price points and of really good quality - Salk, Rogue, Vapor, Selah to name a few. I'm not sure which Chinese option would give the same quality even at the same price point.
Then, there are other interesting companies like American Giant. It turns out that the overhead of American labor is not that much, given sufficient automation and sufficient thought.
I do want to say that I found this thread, old as it is, in really poor taste. Why create a thread to trash a company, that too when the OP had no personal reason to dislike the Emotiva products? Frankly, it sounded like the OP was a audio dealer of some sorts whose business was getting hit because of Emotiva, and wanted to tarnish Emotiva's name as a result. I can even get that, but the way he did it was in bad taste, IMHO. He could have very well focused on other aspects -such as the disadvantages of buying online, the benefits of buying from a dealer, etc.
For what it is worth, I have been completely satisfied with my Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp purchase. Although it has its drawbacks and I've always felt the USP-1 was a bit bright in certain frequencies, it really did open up the sound, has great soundstage, clarity, separation etc., and at the end of the day, you're getting a whole lot for your money.
just4kix
Well-Known Member
As long as the audio or video equipment is giving you true joy, how does it matter where it is manufactured? For that matter, all major brands have shifted manufacturing to China, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, India, Mexico, etc., be it Sony or Nike or Logitech or Hasbro or whatever. China is a source of dubious manufactured goods but only in the unorganised sector or unknown brands. Top brands well never compromise on quality whatever be the source location of manufacturing. If they do, they will suffer such a loss of reputation that it will take ages to recover, if at all.
Yes, nowadays mostly brands (Audio-Video) are manufactured in China, there is no quality issues in Made in China products if the product is costly like Apple or other reputed brands. They all are using China Services because of low cost manufacturing.
naj
Active Member
Hi,
As the previous post says , most products are made in China to a specified quality.
The cost of labour is standard in The US.
A little OT but interesting- I am in the Maritime projects field in the US and utilize US technical services quite often.
If I were to use a electronic technician/ service expert he will charge me 110 to 140 usd per hr.End result not guaranteed .
Getting your computer repaired at bestbuy will cost you 80 usd plus hardware and software.
The music market is niche and to justify low volumes , China is the only option. Emotiva may not sell thousands of models per day. I Have heard ,not sure that though , most US end vendor/client who do not have their factories in China buy manufactured goods on credit and pay as they sell. That's the reason why china remains the most preferred manufacturing hub. And that's where the trade deficit is. At a given time US may owe Chinese market a lot of money, may be billions .There is always a credit line. When we do business we ask for 90 days of credit line .ie we will not pay for 90 days. Typically our out standings are over 1 mn with the Chinese companies just for one project we do . And it's just us.
A little to think - We keep going to china for execution of maritime projects and these guys are amazing. When we did a comparison for a subsea engineering project ,the US rate was 1.8 mn and China was mere 400 k , that's the difference. Surprisingly , for about 30% of the job scope the US companies mentioned they have no experience and capability. Can you believe this.
This is an eye opener. Thats the reason You may find a better sounding beats audio headphone ,a better shining Rollex watch and a better looking Gucci ladies bag in Shanghai's local market. Ofcourse they are fake .
Cheers
As the previous post says , most products are made in China to a specified quality.
The cost of labour is standard in The US.
A little OT but interesting- I am in the Maritime projects field in the US and utilize US technical services quite often.
If I were to use a electronic technician/ service expert he will charge me 110 to 140 usd per hr.End result not guaranteed .
Getting your computer repaired at bestbuy will cost you 80 usd plus hardware and software.
The music market is niche and to justify low volumes , China is the only option. Emotiva may not sell thousands of models per day. I Have heard ,not sure that though , most US end vendor/client who do not have their factories in China buy manufactured goods on credit and pay as they sell. That's the reason why china remains the most preferred manufacturing hub. And that's where the trade deficit is. At a given time US may owe Chinese market a lot of money, may be billions .There is always a credit line. When we do business we ask for 90 days of credit line .ie we will not pay for 90 days. Typically our out standings are over 1 mn with the Chinese companies just for one project we do . And it's just us.
A little to think - We keep going to china for execution of maritime projects and these guys are amazing. When we did a comparison for a subsea engineering project ,the US rate was 1.8 mn and China was mere 400 k , that's the difference. Surprisingly , for about 30% of the job scope the US companies mentioned they have no experience and capability. Can you believe this.
This is an eye opener. Thats the reason You may find a better sounding beats audio headphone ,a better shining Rollex watch and a better looking Gucci ladies bag in Shanghai's local market. Ofcourse they are fake .
Cheers
sandeepmohan
Well-Known Member
I am no audiophile and never will be. The quest for the ultimate personal stereo system is not for me. I don't have the ears for it. I want to listen to music and enjoy my music. If it sounds good, I will buy a product. I could not care less if someone who is an audiophile thinks my system is rubbish. If its rubbish for you, so be it. I've had my reservations with Emotiva. All of this changed after I heard one. I did not have the confidence to go buy one. A colleague did, that too a blind buy and there is no looking back. It beats every single top of the line receiver I have heard from Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, Anthem and Denon. The difference hits you immediately. How is something so cheap out performing the big names? It is impossible. If Emotiva really was some fake engineering company, this would not be the results. The brand commands a lot of respect in the home theater circle and its only a matter of time this filters down to the stereo folks. It is a matter of accepting a product. Just because its cheap does not mean it sounds cheap. Go listen to one is what I would say for those who are hesitant with this brand. The "Made in China" image will soon disappear (don't know whats wrong with the China tag though). If you still don't like the sound, don't buy one. I am surely lining up for a Emotiva power amplifier. Its far more than value for money.
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I was also of the opinion that Chinese make will not be worth considering. But my options like Parasound and others were also made in China. Finally when I was looking for a 5 Channel amp, I ended up with the Emotiva XPA-5, inducted to my system on Sunday. Just did few critical listening and I am loving it.
The amp is so heavy I could not guide it into the rack just few inches from ground.
Since, my set-up is complicated with BFD, Outlaw ICBM-1, etc., it is taking time to adjust and tweak the best output.
So, don't put-off the Emotiva's as cheap Chinese copies just give it a try.
The amp is so heavy I could not guide it into the rack just few inches from ground.
Since, my set-up is complicated with BFD, Outlaw ICBM-1, etc., it is taking time to adjust and tweak the best output.
So, don't put-off the Emotiva's as cheap Chinese copies just give it a try.
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You have a nice setup. Just out of curiosity, did you consider an outlaw power amp instead of emotiva? Both companies offer similarly specced multi channel power amps at roughly similar prices and hence I asked. It would make for a very interesting comparison.
naj
Active Member
Possibly you are right sir.
Can we forget Huaweii and the Australian ban on the company.
BTW there is a good spring/ Summer discounts on all Emotiva products.
And you also have Paypal , pay as you go. Good for members in US area.
Thanks
Thank you for the compliment on my set-up. I did look at the Outlaw, but in India it's difficult to source the Outlaw's. They are only sold in USA. Whereas Emotiva has the cheapest shipping charges and the PayPal is trouble free. Plus the Automatic Voltage selection circuit of Emotiva for the size of the amp is the key feature and this shows they are not targeting USA alone, they are global. That's the reason I did not try other options.
I use emotiva and fozi audio and for the price point there really unbeatable we all want to listen to quality music and if it comes in at a budget price how can that be a bad thing
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