Garrard RC 210

[Josep1955]

301, 401, etc. són plats giratoris de transcripció dissenyats per a ús d'alta fidelitat i emissió. Els he utilitzat tots dos, però actualment només tinc el 301. RC210 és un canviador d'aspecte bonic, mentre que es deia que el tipus A era suau amb els registres. Però el canviador de Garrard al qual tothom sembla aspirar és el RC88/4 dels anys 50.

Hi,
Do you know if the overarm of the Garrard RC 121 is interchangeable with that of the Garrard RC 210? Thank you and regards!

 

[reubensm]

Hi,
Do you know if the overarm of the Garrard RC 121 is interchangeable with that of the Garrard RC 210? Thank you and regards!

Happy New Year 2023! The RC209 and RC210 are updated versions of the RC121 mk2. The centre spindle, tonearm assembly, the overarm and record selector arm on these 3 models all look similar (except that the flag post of the record selector arm on the RC121 mk2 is transperent). However I am not sure about the mechanicals under the chassis and the linkages for these components on the RC121 mk2. I have never used or encountered the RC121.

By the way, were you able to get a ceramic phonostage or get an amplifier with a ceramic/crystal pickup input?

 

[Josep1955]

Feliç Any Nou 2023! Els RC209 i RC210 són versions actualitzades de l'RC121 mk2. L'eix central, el conjunt del braç, el braç superior i el braç selector de registres d'aquests 3 models semblen semblants (excepte que el pal de bandera del braç selector de registres del RC121 mk2 és transparent). Tanmateix, no estic segur de la mecànica sota el xassís i dels enllaços d'aquests components al RC121 mk2. Mai he utilitzat ni he trobat el RC121.

Per cert, heu pogut aconseguir un fonoescenari de ceràmica o un amplificador amb una entrada de captació de ceràmic

Happy 2023! I checked if it was the beginning of the year in India and I seemed to understand that it was in October-November, the Diwali.
I found an overarm of an RC 121 in better condition than mine, that’s why the question, but no one assures me they’re interchangeable.
Here, ceramic capsules have no good reputation and it is difficult and expensive to find a ceramic amplifier. My Garrard I think it carries the original capsule, 60 years! Surely, we will try to put a magnetic capsule and, with time and money, get an other headshell for the ceramic capsule and keep the originality.
Warm regards.

 

[reubensm]

Happy 2023! I checked if it was the beginning of the year in India and I seemed to understand that it was in October-November, the Diwali.
I found an overarm of an RC 121 in better condition than mine, that’s why the question, but no one assures me they’re interchangeable.
Here, ceramic capsules have no good reputation and it is difficult and expensive to find a ceramic amplifier. My Garrard I think it carries the original capsule, 60 years! Surely, we will try to put a magnetic capsule and, with time and money, get an other headshell for the ceramic capsule and keep the originality.
Warm regards.

Yes, although different States of India have their own local customs and traditions, for almost all Indians, 31st Dec is New Year's eve

Regarding the overarm of the RC121, perhaps you should take a look at the RC210 one, especially where it links to the rest of the mechanism and ascertain compatibility visually. My best guess is that although the RC121 and 210 have the same way of functioning, but there is a strong likelyhood that both have different linkages. Regarding the cartridge, it would be difficult to find a magnetic cartridge that can track at about 6-8 grams. The common MM cartridge used on these changers was the Shure M3D or Shure M7D but as these happen to be legendary Shure cartridges, they go for a lot on eBay. Also a lot of these appear on eBay without stylus and one must always consider that a replacement stylus for a MM cartridge or MC cartridge is almost as expensive if not more expensive than the cartridge itself (irrespective on brand/make).

 

[Josep1955]

Yes, although different States of India have their own local customs and traditions, for almost all Indians, 31st Dec is New Year's eve

Regarding the overarm of the RC121, perhaps you should take a look at the RC210 one, especially where it links to the rest of the mechanism and ascertain compatibility visually. My best guess is that although the RC121 and 210 have the same way of functioning, but there is a strong likelyhood that both have different linkages. Regarding the cartridge, it would be difficult to find a magnetic cartridge that can track at about 6-8 grams. The common MM cartridge used on these changers was the Shure M3D or Shure M7D but as these happen to be legendary Shure cartridges, they go for a lot on eBay. Also a lot of these appear on eBay without stylus and one must always consider that a replacement stylus for a MM cartridge or MC cartridge is almost as expensive if not more expensive than the cartridge itself (irrespective on brand/make).

Hi,
I understand that this solution will not please the most purists but it is for me the most practical. It also allows me to use the Garrard with any of my equipment.
The changed capsule looks like the original, 60 years later! It has been replaced by a SHURE M44MB.
Thank you very much for your valued help, I wish you had as much fun as I did!

Warm regards,

Josep

 

[reubensm]

Well done, its really sounding great. Enjoy the music!

 

[Josep1955]

Well done, its really sounding great. Enjoy the music!

Thanks!

 

[IndianEars]

What a DELIGHTFULLY INFORMATIVE thread.

KUDOs to reubensm for painstakingly hand holding and sharing his in-depth knowledge not only with Josep1955, but all of us.

I would like to chime in with my 2 cents on Ceramic Cartridge Phono stages.

I can understand reluctance by Josep1955 to invest in a Ceramic Phono Amplifier.

Actually, Ceramic cartridges are generally simple & Much Mis-Understood.

They have been phoo-phooed due to Poor Bass (screechy sound, where the rest of the audio band gets highlighted.. due to lack of Bass).


In reality All they need is a High Input impedance (1 Meg Ohms minimum, preferably 3 to 5 Meg Ohms) to deliver their voltage to....... Equalisation is hardly necessary.

Valves (Vacuum Tubes) inherently provided this, but Solid State Electronics typically provide input impedances of 10 K ohms to 20 K Ohms (1000 K Ohms = 1 Meg Ohm


A VERY simple and Excellent Ceramic Phono stage is a simple JFET buffer, capable of accepting an input of atleast 1 Volt, a 5 MOhm resistor at its input and capable of feeding an output load of 10 K ohms.

Actually, if you review all the circuits detailed as

"Bass Eq pre-amp" using the BC 109 Transistors, or the TL 071 Op Amp or the bootstrapped BC549C... NONE of these actually provide any bass boost. They simply provide a High Input impedance.... That is ALL that is required.

In case these simple circuits are beyond what you are comfortable building, there is an EVEN Simpler Fix:

Simply insert a 5 Meg Ohmn resistor in series with the input of your amplifier's AUX input of each channel.

5 Meg Ohm resistors may be hard to find, or difficult to procure... then simply insert 5 resistors, each of 1 Meg Ohn in series with the Aux Input of each channel.

You will be happily surprised with the results.

Feedback welcome

 

[reubensm]

One of the most interesting ceramic catridges that I have come across is the Philips GP390. The cartridge body actually houses a little PCB with the inbuilt network (per the diagram below), enabling compatability with any generic input:

 

[IndianEars]

I guess most know, but for the few that dont, GARRARD is now owned by Ajay Shirke. He also acquired Loricraft Audio who for many years were the sole authorised service department for existing Garrard turntables.

Ajay Shirke started CADENCE Audio in Pune, decades ago.

During the past decade, he has also bought out SME, Nagra, Siltech, Crystal cables & Spendor Audio Systems, UK.

 

[Josep1955]

One of the most interesting ceramic catridges that I have come across is the Philips GP390. The cartridge body actually houses a little PCB with the inbuilt network (per the diagram below), enabling compatability with any generic input:

View attachment 74242View attachment 74243

Many thanks to everyone, especially Reubensm. It has been an exciting experience, enriching and pleasant, that I wish I could continue. In an increasingly egoist world, it is a breath of fresh air to receive your selfless help.

Warm regards.

 

[Josep1955]

Many thanks to everyone, especially Reubensm. It has been an exciting experience, enriching and pleasant, that I wish I could continue. In an increasingly egoist world, it is a breath of fresh air to receive your selfless help.

Warm regards.

Hi,
Received the second headshell. With a cartridge without brand, unknown to me. I will now have one with ceramic capsule and one with magnetic.
Warm regards.

 

[reubensm]

Hi,
Received the second headshell. With a cartridge without brand, unknown to me. I will now have one with ceramic capsule and one with magnetic.
Warm regards.

Nice, that cartridge looks very much like an Empire 880 series moving magnet cartridge to me. These were high quality cartridges for stereo turntables with precision tonearms. Tracking force was from about 0.5g to 3g which is beyond the capabilities of the Garrard RC210's tonearm. Looks like you have a 3-pin headshell version which was the matching headshell for the Garrard TPA12 tonearm commonly used as a stand-alone tonearm, or alternately as the integrated tonearm on models like the Garrard 4HF Turntable and Garrard Type A Record Changer. The RC210 tonearm uses a 4-pin headshell.

 

[Josep1955]

Nice, that cartridge looks very much like an Empire 880 series moving magnet cartridge to me. These were high quality cartridges for stereo turntables with precision tonearms. Tracking force was from about 0.5g to 3g which is beyond the capabilities of the Garrard RC210's tonearm. Looks like you have a 3-pin headshell version which was the matching headshell for the Garrard TPA12 tonearm commonly used as a stand-alone tonearm, or alternately as the integrated tonearm on models like the Garrard 4HF Turntable and Garrard Type A Record Changer. The RC210 tonearm uses a 4-pin headshell.

Hi,
It’s the 4 pin headshell version. If it’s an Empire 880 cartridge, I guess finding needles must be almost impossible.
Warm regards.

 

[reubensm]

Hi,
It’s the 4 pin headshell version. If it’s an Empire 880 cartridge, I guess finding needles must be almost impossible.
Warm regards.

Sorry, could not notice the 4th pin on the earlier pics. Also an amendment to the above post-the TPA12 accepts both 3-pin and 4-pin head-shells.
It's the S880 series stylus that you would need and should be easily available online. Here is a vintage sample.

However, one point to keep in mind is that a replacement stylus of high quality and repute is usually as expensive as the cartridge itself, if not more expensive.

 

[Josep1955]

Sorry, could not notice the 4th pin on the earlier pics. Also an amendment to the above post-the TPA12 accepts both 3-pin and 4-pin head-shells.
It's the S880 series stylus that you would need and should be easily available online. Here is a vintage sample.
View attachment 76005View attachment 76006
However, one point to keep in mind is that a replacement stylus of high quality and repute is usually as expensive as the cartridge itself, if not more expensive.

Hi,
Indeed, it is an Empire 880 cartridge. You are a master of high fidelity! I've found needle spare for 28€ more shipping. Maybe it is a good idea to have a cartridge like this in working order. https://www.dacapoaudio.com/1678-Empire-Scientific-S880-P-styli.html
Nice weekend!

 

[johnwe]

Tagging resident Garrard expert @reubensm

I'm trying to remove the platter and have had no luck. All the techniques listed here have not helped. An suggested other steps I can take? @reubensm