Good headphone amps for Sennheiser HD650

[vkalia]

Thanks for that - i generally have a pretty good handle on where i want to get to, and the price range that i think it will take to get there, and i should *comfortably* get a no-compromises rig.

What i am working on is the process of whittling down that path. When you live in the Andamans and are presently working in Myanmar, there really arent a lot of opportunities to stroll down to the nearest shop and try out gear

Getting back to my earlier question - I'd definitely love to hear your opinions of the 650s with the Little Dot.

Cheers!

 

[kratu]

Thanks for that - i generally have a pretty good handle on where i want to get to, and the price range that i think it will take to get there, and i should *comfortably* get a no-compromises rig.

What i am working on is the process of whittling down that path. When you live in the Andamans and are presently working in Myanmar, there really arent a lot of opportunities to stroll down to the nearest shop and try out gear

Getting back to my earlier question - I'd definitely love to hear your opinions of the 650s with the Little Dot.

Cheers!

I understand your point about inaccessibility. Headphone amps are such a niche market, it is even hard to find them in metro cities in India.

I've already put my first impressions in the earlier post. I like Little Dot MkIV amp. After running it for more than couple of weeks, my subsequent reactions remain the same.

It brings out the potential of HD650 while retaining the warmth. The sound isn't harsh or fatiguing and doesn't cause distortion even in higher volume levels. We can hear the details of the sound. I've used switch gain setting in the amp and it works well for high impedance headphones upto 600ohms. I've also auditioned a $1200 solid state amp called Lehmann Audio BCL. Little Dot amp performs as good as this for a fraction of the cost.

It allows customising the sound signature through tube rolling. Every class and make of tubes has it's own distinctive sound and texture; and changing tubes can help to find the right match. You can't do this with a SS amp. I'm yet to experiment with tubes though, but I like the concept. And, the warm glow in late-night listening sessions is mesmerising and adds to the whole ambience.

 

[techboy]

You really can't compare any little dot amp to Lehmann BCL. All LDs are warm and relatively colored by tubes. They are even to the darker or warmer side. BCL is the most neutral amp you can buy for $1500 or less and it is one of the fastest and quickest amps to have ever been made. In those two characteristics even beta22 doesn't stand a chance against Lehmann.

Lehmann is the perfect example of the perfect solid state amp. Whereas Little Dot is a typical darkish sounding tube amp. They are opposites. You may love one but hate the other and vice versa or sometimes you may love/hate both.

Little dot has its own advantages in terms of a lush sound which the lehmann won't provide.

And it doesn't matter in which part of India you live, you really don't get the chance to buy leave alone audition a headphone amp or headphone anywhere. Everything is done overseas and other than a few headphones, everything needs to be imported.

 

[kratu]

You really can't compare any little dot amp to Lehmann BCL. All LDs are warm and relatively colored by tubes. They are even to the darker or warmer side. BCL is the most neutral amp you can buy for $1500 or less and it is one of the fastest and quickest amps to have ever been made. In those two characteristics even beta22 doesn't stand a chance against Lehmann.

Lehmann is the perfect example of the perfect solid state amp. Whereas Little Dot is a typical darkish sounding tube amp. They are opposites. You may love one but hate the other and vice versa or sometimes you may love/hate both.

Little dot has its own advantages in terms of a lush sound which the lehmann won't provide.

And it doesn't matter in which part of India you live, you really don't get the chance to buy leave alone audition a headphone amp or headphone anywhere. Everything is done overseas and other than a few headphones, everything needs to be imported.

There are two diverging schools of thought in hifi world; one is the objectivist and the other is the subjectivist. I tend to balance between the two; but heavily lean on the subjectivism.

In other words, I believe that hifi equipment is highly personal and judgement is best left to an individual. I like warm and darker sound signature; something that sounds analogue. I personally liked what Little Dot gives me. Lehmann Audio is good enough and might be neutral, but I found it cold, thinner to my taste. I could get the same level of performance from Little Dot.

In essence subjectivist/objectivist debate can go on forever. All I can say that we can agree to disagree on what is a great amp Your mileage may vary.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

subjectivist/objectivist debate can go on forever.

I have decided to try and follow a middle path with rationalism .

I do believe and accept the subjectivity, but I am, when it comes down to it, terribly lazy about actually doing AB tests etc.

Returning to the Bravo Ocean for a minute, whilst I have found (as I said) that it makes some music sound luscious and superb, there is a hard edge to some other music, which I find fatiguing. (Aside: is this caused by the harmonic distortion with tubes?)

So finally, I did some AB testing against my Audiofire. This is not at all a fair one-to-one test: it is Audiofire DAC/HP amp against ODAC->Bravo.

Now, I know that the Audiofire hp-out can be improved on. That is what set me on the headphone amp path in the first place! However, my latest comparisons say that it may lack bass presence and depth, but it does the mids-to-highs much more smoothly and without the harshness.

we can agree to disagree on what is a great amp Your mileage may vary.

I'd say, your taste may vary. And we are all absolutely entitled to our taste.

 

[vkalia]

There are two diverging schools of thought in hifi world; one is the objectivist and the other is the subjectivist. I tend to balance between the two; but heavily lean on the subjectivism.

It depends on whether you are trying to simply reproduce what is recorded on the CD as accurately as possible, or if you are trying to replicate the live performance (as far as classical and jazz go, anyway).

FWIW, I fall 100% in the subjective camp. Solid states may measure really well, but they simply fail to convey the life of the music IMO. My theory is that the second-order distortion of single-ended tube amps restores some of the timbre and natural acoustics of the live performance in a way that solid state electronics simply dont. Barring perhaps hip-hop and electronica, pretty much every musical instrument and human vocals come alive with tubes. I had to wean myself off a lot of audiophile preconceptions before I was able to summon up the courage to sell off my Parasound & Snells - for this purpose, I had a lot of friends listen to music on both the rigs. Every single one of them preferred the tubes.

What gets my goat is the whole BS science in the audio world: silver cables improve the uppers, solid state gear needs to break in, $500 cables, blah-di-blah. THAT is definitely the realm of "you hear what you want to hear".

But a lot of people disagree, including someone who regularly had $250k+ worth of gear* in his house at any given time. I knew Jonathan Scull, the editor/contributor to Stereophile, and we used to always debate this. He staunchly believed in the benefits of cables, green pens on CDs, etc. and felt that tubes werent to be considered hi-fi b/c of their distortion. Technically, that may be true, but again, if something is high fidelity but sounds worse, do we care? His logic is that there is no common ground for discussion if we go the "my fi" way. Fair enough.

*There isnt a whole lot I wouldnt do to own a pair of Watt-Puppies. Listening to those babies, driven by ML/Krells as well as some other tube-based (although not single-ended) rig, was an experience I do not have the words to describe.

 

[vkalia]

Btw, any idea if it is possible to source the parts in India needed to upgrade the Bravo Audio - the MOSFET IRL510 and a bigger, beefier capacitor?

 

[kratu]

Btw, any idea if it is possible to source the parts in India needed to upgrade the Bravo Audio - the MOSFET IRL510 and a bigger, beefier capacitor?

PM 'vivek.saikia' about your requirement. He had posted earlier about this and might give you some pointers.

 

[vkalia]

An update: I ordered the Little Dot Mk IVSE for the HD650s.

 

[kratu]

An update: I ordered the Little Dot Mk IVSE for the HD650s.

Awesome, I hope you will like it. The SE apparently has better components and Mullard Tubes.

It might need some burn-in time before they start sounding better. Also, do experiment with the switch gain settings. Mine is set to 'ON-ON' for high-impendance phones. Some like it at a lower setting.

 

[vkalia]

^ Cheers, will do.

 

[techboy]

Review of Project Ember Hybrid Amp & Preamp by Home

http://www.hifivision.com/portable-...mp-preamp-initial-impressions.html#post529554

 

[kratu]

Moving along, please post other decent headphone amps in $500 budget range. SS amps are welcome. Anyone tried ODAC, Schiit, etc?

Little Dot MkIV Update:
This could be an issue with tubes in general, and not necessarily the amp. Tubes are an antiquated technology and hence come with reliability issues. Earlier, I've had some problem with unbalanced sound between the left and right channels. It's subtle difference and isn't really that bad ... but I feel proper balanced sound could deliver more stereophonic imaging. Again, this could be the tubes.

Second is the burn-in. I've heard a debate about the efficacy of burn-in, and whether it is a myth or reality. I'm convinced about this one now. I've done some bit of burning-in; but the progress is gone on the negative side. Instead of "opening up" ... it's seems to close down ... now the sound is blanketed; bass is weak and bloated ... soundstage and overall clarity and detailing is gone. I've heard that it continues to change through the 100-200hrs of burn. So, I'll be continuing to burn-in.

Also, I've ordered some Russian tubes on eBay in bulk. I'm hoping this one can rectify the problem; as well as improve the overall performance of the amp.

 

[techboy]

1. You probably got bad/end life tubes.

2. Why would you want to buy Russian tubes in bulk? It is better to get a few rare nos tubes which are expensive rather than lots of crappy tubes.

3. LD is known for build quality issues. Though it is excellent VFM in terms of sound quality.

Some of the best amps under $500:

Hybrid
Project Ember
Schiit Lyr

Tube
Little Dot MK IV SE
Woo Audio WA3 ($520)
Hifiman EF-5
Schiit Valhalla (a bit lower than the rest)

Solid stage
Lehmann Rhinelander
Graham Slee SRG II
Matrix M stage (a bit lower than the others) / Lovely Cube Professional
Schiit Asgard 2 (a bit lower than the others)

DIY
Bottlehead Crack (best of the lot, provided you only use high impedance headphones)
Aune Panda Kit
Used CK2III or Used M3
Used EHHA
Torpedo Kit

 

[kratu]

1. You probably got bad/end life tubes.

2. Why would you want to buy Russian tubes in bulk? It is better to get a few rare nos tubes which are expensive rather than lots of crappy tubes.

3. LD is known for build quality issues. Though it is excellent VFM in terms of sound quality.

Could be the case with the tubes. However, from what I hear the affects could be seen visually through discolouration (changing red/purplish in colour) or dark (burn-out). I see none of them.

I've purchased Russian (Voshkod?) 6J1P-EV (or 6Zh1P-EV) which are raved on head-fi community

Regarding, the build quality ... I don't think I find any issues with this one. It's good enough and I've not seen any interference (except for a short buzz resulting from mobile phone, this is quite rare though).

Thanks from the list, could you mention the ones you've personally auditioned and how they compare with one another?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Little Dot MkIV Update:
This could be an issue with tubes in general, and not necessarily the amp. Tubes are an antiquated technology and hence come with reliability issues.

My experienced in the 1950s put me off tubes! But that is antiquated experience, and the tube people these days don't seem to find them particularly unreliable.

Earlier, I've had some problem with unbalanced sound between the left and right channels. It's subtle difference and isn't really that bad ... but I feel proper balanced sound could deliver more stereophonic imaging. Again, this could be the tubes.

It could also be any other part of the circuitry. Perhaps a volume control pot?

 

[kratu]

My experienced in the 1950s put me off tubes! But that is antiquated experience, and the tube people these days don't seem to find them particularly unreliable.


It could also be any other part of the circuitry. Perhaps a volume control pot?

Actually, the issue is bit harder to isolate. It is subtle and slightly erratic; some frequencies (or instruments) seem to be focused on one channel; vocals and some elements seem to be centred. Sometimes, it feels normal. Also, there is a change when the switch gain is set to different settings. I'm not sure if I can diagnose the volume control pot for the erratic behaviour. It seems solidly built and doesn't have any "loose" contacts.

I personally think it could be tubes and issue with pairing. Regarding the reliability of the tubes, they are good enough but when compared to SS technology of today, they do have some cons.

 

[anm]

beta22 is here. Thanks to gurubhai. I will compare with EHHA.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I personally think it could be tubes and issue with pairing. Regarding the reliability of the tubes, they are good enough but when compared to SS technology of today, they do have some cons.

You can't drop them hyeah:

And I understand that they have a fairly finite life, in hours. I'm told it's quite a big number, but probably not as long as a transistor.

 

[techboy]

Tubes usually have a life time of 3-5000 hours.